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K2 wrote:With iPhone and Droid dominating the phone market, it appears Blackberry's time in the sun may be coming to an end. Thus, Balsillie may not be a viable owner in the NHL's eyes
Draftnik wrote:Pro sports franchises are fleeing Hamilton for greener pastures:
http://www.thestar.com/news/article/912 ... burlington
Draftnik wrote:Pro sports franchises are fleeing Hamilton for greener pastures:
http://www.thestar.com/news/article/912 ... burlington
CT Mechanic wrote:Why didn't the NHL let the team be sold to Jim Basille so he could move them to Hamilton Ontario?
Physical_Graffiti wrote:CT Mechanic wrote:Why didn't the NHL let the team be sold to Jim Basille so he could move them to Hamilton Ontario?
Because the Leafs are worried about their monopoly on the area, and the NHL is worried about the viability of the Buffalo Sabres if they lose this market.
K2 wrote:With iPhone and Droid dominating the phone market, it appears Blackberry's time in the sun may be coming to an end. Thus, Balsillie may not be a viable owner in the NHL's eyes
K2 wrote:With iPhone and Droid dominating the phone market, it appears Blackberry's time in the sun may be coming to an end. Thus, Balsillie may not be a viable owner in the NHL's eyes
Physical_Graffiti wrote:Draftnik wrote:Pro sports franchises are fleeing Hamilton for greener pastures:
http://www.thestar.com/news/article/912 ... burlington
http://www.900chml.com/Channels/Reg/New ... ID=1336563
They're just "posturing for leverage" (lol). The pasture isn't greener; Bob Young wants our money for a stadium, while at the same time gives us no say in the stadium location. He also spoke up much too late in the game against the proposed stadium location, after being quoted as saying that he'd support which ever location city council chose.
Draftnik wrote:Physical_Graffiti wrote:Draftnik wrote:Pro sports franchises are fleeing Hamilton for greener pastures:
http://www.thestar.com/news/article/912 ... burlington
http://www.900chml.com/Channels/Reg/New ... ID=1336563
They're just "posturing for leverage" (lol). The pasture isn't greener; Bob Young wants our money for a stadium, while at the same time gives us no say in the stadium location. He also spoke up much too late in the game against the proposed stadium location, after being quoted as saying that he'd support which ever location city council chose.
I was making a joke.
I could have posted a serious answer about how Balsillie wouldn't agree to keep the Pens in PGH & the Preds in NAS, how he started to sell season tix for the Preds to play in Hamilton, how he cut a deal with Moyes to try and move the Yotes without following NHL bylaws, how the TML & Sabres would claim territorial infringement, etc ... but it seemed silly to respond to the notion that the NHL would actually allow Jim Balsillie into their league. It would be akin to the NFL allowing Al Davis into their league knowing that Davis would sue them. Plus Balsillie is old news. The bankruptcy judge killed his bid to buy the Yotes more than a year ago and the legal precedent the case set re: NHL being allowed to control franchise location, even in the event of bankruptcy, probably eliminated the only loophole Balsillie had to get an NHL franchise without BOG approval.
Bettman actually got Glendale to give Hulsizer $197M to buy the Yotes. Its quite a feather in Bettman's cap because the NHL will get most of that $$$ as a franchise fee so Bettman will deliver the sale price he promised NHL owners when the league assumed control of the Yotes and subsidized their operating losses last season. Glendale is subsidizing the Yotes losses up to $25M this season.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=5921462
Draftnik wrote:Hulsizer is going to get a sweetheart deal. Glendale will finance his purchase so he won't have any acquisition cost. He will subsidize operational losses, but his plan is to make $$$ when he sells the franchise down the road. I doubt his business plan shows operational losses of $25+ per year. Moyes was borrowing $$$ from Dell's hedge fund at usurious rates. The Yotes operational losses weren't the bulk of Moyes' losses.
Look at BUF. Golisano bought them out of bankruptcy. He's lost $$$, but he will recoup his operational losses and turn a profit when he sells the team to Pegula for ~ $175M.
Balsillie is a non starter for the NHL. He refused to comply with the Pens term sheet, he took STH deposits on Preds tix in Hamilton, he sued the NHL for the Yotes... The NHL is partnership of 30 ownership groups. They compete on the ice, but as businesses they are partners. They aren't going to admit a "partner" that won't follow their rules. A 2nd team in the GTA would be very lucrative for the NHL. I don't have to sit in BOG meetings to know that when the NHL does put a 2nd team into the GTA, it will be an expansion franchise for a monster fee north of $250M. That way, all the 30 franchises will get a taste of the expansion fee. There will be some indemnification concessions to BUF & TML. LAK received half the expansion fee for ANA. The Baltimore Orioles control the TV deal via MASN for the Washington Nationals. Partners strike deals amicably to resolve these type of issues. The NHL isn't going to admit somebody that will challenge indemnification via the courts.
I'm not anti-Canada but these type of threads are incredibly short sighted. Nobody remembers the NHL's currency equalization program. EDM & CGY were struggling for STH in the late 90s. They had to run community campaigns to get people to come to games. EDM had to cobble 30 guys together to buy the team. OTT were bankrupt. The Molson's sold MON to an American that performed a leveraged buyout because no Canadian citizen would step forward and buy the Habs because they were a risky proposition. TML are a cash cow and VAN has also done well. Canadian teams will do well as long as the price of oil is relatively high. That has driven the Canadian $ to parity with the American $. If the price of oil drops, the value of the CDN $ will plummet and so will the profitability of CDN franchises.
Nobody would dispute that Canada at a macro level likes hockey much more than the US, but...There aren't enough large metro areas in Canada to support a 30 team league. Also, as the NHL becomes more dependent on corporate revenue (luxury suites, premium seats, sponsorships) instead of fan ticket revenue, the lack of large CDN corporations compared to the plethora of large US corporations makes Canada less viable for the evolving model of how professional sports franchises make $$$.
bhaw wrote:Do you really not understand, in the grand scheme of things, or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?
Number of potential new hockey fans with a successful hockey team in Hamilton = marginal
Number of potential new hockey fans with a successful team in Phoenix = several million
And, again, where is the proof that 9-10 teams could be supported in Canada? There's a reason teams had to leave...
Teams like ATL and PHX have not had a team to get behind in a LONG time. A market like Pittsburgh fails when the team sucks for lengths of time. Let them be successful before you start complaining that no one wants to support them. I doubt the attendance would be great in QC or Hamilton if the team absolute sucked for the better part of 10 years. Fans don't support losers.
bhaw wrote:Do you really not understand, in the grand scheme of things, or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?
Number of potential new hockey fans with a successful hockey team in Hamilton = marginal
Number of potential new hockey fans with a successful team in Phoenix = several million
And, again, where is the proof that 9-10 teams could be supported in Canada? There's a reason teams had to leave...
Teams like ATL and PHX have not had a team to get behind in a LONG time. A market like Pittsburgh fails when the team sucks for lengths of time. Let them be successful before you start complaining that no one wants to support them. I doubt the attendance would be great in QC or Hamilton if the team absolute sucked for the better part of 10 years. Fans don't support losers.
DelPen wrote:K2 wrote:With iPhone and Droid dominating the phone market, it appears Blackberry's time in the sun may be coming to an end. Thus, Balsillie may not be a viable owner in the NHL's eyes
Even though that is true RIM still had record profits this past year and should have plenty of cash on hand to run the team.
bhaw wrote:Do you really not understand, in the grand scheme of things, or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?
Number of potential new hockey fans with a successful hockey team in Hamilton = marginal
Number of potential new hockey fans with a successful team in Phoenix = several million
And, again, where is the proof that 9-10 teams could be supported in Canada? There's a reason teams had to leave...
Teams like ATL and PHX have not had a team to get behind in a LONG time. A market like Pittsburgh fails when the team sucks for lengths of time. Let them be successful before you start complaining that no one wants to support them. I doubt the attendance would be great in QC or Hamilton if the team absolute sucked for the better part of 10 years. Fans don't support losers.
Pitt87 wrote:bhaw wrote:Do you really not understand, in the grand scheme of things, or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?
Number of potential new hockey fans with a successful hockey team in Hamilton = marginal
Number of potential new hockey fans with a successful team in Phoenix = several million
And, again, where is the proof that 9-10 teams could be supported in Canada? There's a reason teams had to leave...
Teams like ATL and PHX have not had a team to get behind in a LONG time. A market like Pittsburgh fails when the team sucks for lengths of time. Let them be successful before you start complaining that no one wants to support them. I doubt the attendance would be great in QC or Hamilton if the team absolute sucked for the better part of 10 years. Fans don't support losers.
I totally agree, but for this argument to work there has to be growth in attendance. Unfortunately, attendance is going the wrong way:
Phoenix finished 4th in the West last year and are competitive again this year to get a playoff spot, and the average attendance at their games has again this year. At this point, the potential needs to start paying.
bhaw wrote:Do you really not understand, in the grand scheme of things, or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?
Number of potential new hockey fans with a successful hockey team in Hamilton = marginal
Number of potential new hockey fans with a successful team in Phoenix = several million
And, again, where is the proof that 9-10 teams could be supported in Canada? There's a reason teams had to leave...
Teams like ATL and PHX have not had a team to get behind in a LONG time. A market like Pittsburgh fails when the team sucks for lengths of time. Let them be successful before you start complaining that no one wants to support them. I doubt the attendance would be great in QC or Hamilton if the team absolute sucked for the better part of 10 years. Fans don't support losers.
bhaw wrote:Pitt87 wrote:bhaw wrote:Do you really not understand, in the grand scheme of things, or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?
Number of potential new hockey fans with a successful hockey team in Hamilton = marginal
Number of potential new hockey fans with a successful team in Phoenix = several million
And, again, where is the proof that 9-10 teams could be supported in Canada? There's a reason teams had to leave...
Teams like ATL and PHX have not had a team to get behind in a LONG time. A market like Pittsburgh fails when the team sucks for lengths of time. Let them be successful before you start complaining that no one wants to support them. I doubt the attendance would be great in QC or Hamilton if the team absolute sucked for the better part of 10 years. Fans don't support losers.
I totally agree, but for this argument to work there has to be growth in attendance. Unfortunately, attendance is going the wrong way:
Phoenix finished 4th in the West last year and are competitive again this year to get a playoff spot, and the average attendance at their games has again this year. At this point, the potential needs to start paying.
You do realize that they have not been allowed to market at all since the NHL took over, right? They turned over their entire ticket office and, due to the ownership issue, have absolutely zero advertising/marketing efforts in the community right now.
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