Roberts to Pens?

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Postby netwolf on Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:08 pm

Posterboy wrote:Forget it Netwolf, you don't have a clue.

It will be surprising if 1 of theses discussed trades happens, let alone all 3.

Where did I say all three were going to happen?
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Postby joopen on Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:16 pm

The U wrote:I dont think he's garbage. I think he's a good option considering you'll have to spend WAAAYYY too much to bring in a "real" 1st line winger at this point.

Those assets would be better off used in a trade to acquire a dman.


Not to mention he was a fairly productive 1st line winger last year. Yes I know he played with Thornton and Cheecho. Just proves he can play with upper eschelon players.
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Postby Posterboy on Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:18 pm

Where did I say all three were going to happen?


Sorry, I was being sarcastic based on another post whether or not to trade Welch.

I'm with you on not giving up on a 24 year old with 27 games of experience.
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Postby netwolf on Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:21 pm

Posterboy wrote:Sorry, I was being sarcastic based on another post whether or not to trade Welch.

I'm with you on not giving up on a 24 year old with 27 games of experience.

No problem. I completely misinterpreted your post.
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Postby magnum on Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:34 pm

kirk wrote:
magnum wrote:
pcm wrote:Kirk, the combined deals would be a big improvement for this season.

But here's something to consider, we would be trading away 2 roster spots for next season and getting nothing in return. This means these spots will have to be filled by expensive UFA's (the more UFA's to sign the lower quality they will be), or rushing prospects (Letang, Filewich) into the lineup.


Yeah but it is quite possible that those roster players were going to be replaced anyways. You could see from a mile away that they have been real happy with Malone. Welch "could've" been a roster player but he couldn't beat out Alain Nasrredine.

Good scoring wingers are going to cost money. If you don't want to spend money on them then you either take a chance with a minor leaguer or you settle for the Ryan Malone's. Same with defense. If you want a good defenseman they aren't cheap. You either pay the price or you settle for Scuderi and Melichar and hope that the minor leaguers develop on schedule.

Either way, you're not giving up a lot of future pieces may it be picks or good prospects or good roster players to sign UFA's.


The other thing, Magnum, remains to determine what constitutes mortgaging the future. I see the most integral thing to the Pens future as being the maximization of that fiveyear period you're going to have with Sid, Malkin, and Staal (and Fleury) before the Pens face TB style choices (like they did with Khabibulin). Guys like Whitney and Letang are integral parts of that as well. Malone, Welch, and even a #1 in a weak draft year are peripheral to that future, assets to be sure but, if the Pens can be less of a long shot this season and the big 3 can gain invaluable playoff experience, expendable assets nonetheless.


Yeah, the whole "mortgaging the future" is very vague. It could mean a lot of different things or be all of those things, who knows. Ray Shero has always sort of left that one hanging (we need something to keep us guessing and having fun anyways).

When I think of mortgaging the future I look at what is behind in WBS, what we have now, what needs upgraded, what will be upgraded, what isn't or might not be part fo the team and going from there. Everyone has a certain bit of value, maybe not to another team but they do here. You also of course can go out and completely reshape a team in Free Agency as well, It has to be a mix.

I like the steps that Ray Shero has taken since being hired. There's organization and there's a procedure and plan. He appears to look at all of the fine lines of things. He got us role players last year. While we all wanted defensemen and scoring wingers, we did need real 3rd and 4th lines too. He got a lot for little which was excellent and that has been integral with this team this year. Even a guy like Mark Eaton. Not really a Number 2 defenseman but a nice addition to the team.

I have full faith that Ray knows what he's doing right now at the Trading Deadline. I think you do as well Kirk. Me and you are on the same page with the future and looking at these trades further than just a 40 year old guy for Noah Welch replacing a young guy in Ryan Malone.
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Postby Draftnik on Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:36 pm

Shero and company must think Welch is not good enough to make the roster next year and wouldn't clear waivers to go back to WBS. It makes sense to use him right now as trade bait if they think he will be on the waiver wire in October.
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Postby DelPen on Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:38 pm

Draftnik wrote:Shero and company must think Welch is not good enough to make the roster next year and wouldn't clear waivers to go back to WBS. It makes sense to use him right now as trade bait if they think he will be on the waiver wire in October.


Funny, I never thought of that. Good thinking.
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Postby Maestro on Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:41 pm

any word on when the deadline is for Roberts to make his decision? I would guess it has to be sometime tomorrow morning.
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Postby joopen on Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:42 pm

Maestro wrote:any word on when the deadline is for Roberts to make his decision? I would guess it has to be sometime tomorrow morning.


we have seen 3 different deadlines on here 1. 9PM tonight 2. 10PM tonight 3. Tomorrow morning.
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Postby Draftnik on Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:43 pm

Maestro wrote:any word on when the deadline is for Roberts to make his decision? I would guess it has to be sometime tomorrow morning.


No word but TSN and The Score speculated tomorrow morning. McKenzie just said Roberts is playing a game of chicken with Florida and Toronto. Supposedly Toronto is offering Bell, Kilger, and some picks. It isn't very enticing. I think Roberts will go back to Toronto in the end.
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Postby netwolf on Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:44 pm

Draftnik wrote:Shero and company must think Welch is not good enough to make the roster next year and wouldn't clear waivers to go back to WBS. It makes sense to use him right now as trade bait if they think he will be on the waiver wire in October.

If all this is true and your premise is correct, then their opinion has slipped even more than we think. Melichar, Nasreddine, and Scuderi are UFAs to be this summer. Whitney's contract is up, and while I believe he'll be re-signed, I wouldn't count him as signed until ink is actually put to paper.

Gonchar, Orpik, and Eaton are the only d-men under contract for next year. You can add Letang to the mix, though many think his positional defense could use a season in WB, before he jumps full-time to the NHL.

Given all that, I would think they'd want to keep Welch around, if for nothing more than insurance. I still think it's too soon to give up on him though.
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Postby NJ5934 on Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:46 pm

Draftnik wrote:Shero and company must think Welch is not good enough to make the roster next year and wouldn't clear waivers to go back to WBS. It makes sense to use him right now as trade bait if they think he will be on the waiver wire in October.


I agree, but offering him up in exchange for a rental?

Sopel was dealt for picks. I find it hard to believe that Shero is going to offer up a top defensive prospect for a 40 year old who likely will play two months in a Pens sweater. Good lord, a couple loses and we out of a playoff spot. Some of the suggestions I'm reading on this board are insane. We are not Anaheim or Nashville. We still have a ways to go. Roberts or Guerin are not going to be around when we are in this position next year, or the year after. Welch on the other hand...will be. And he'll probably be a key figure. I can't see the justification of giving him up for a rental. In a year or two when we are (hopefully) at the top of the league standings......different story, but today.....no way.

I really hope some of these rumors are just that.
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Postby Maestro on Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:47 pm

Thanks - Roberts is in an awkward position - if he doesn't go then he continues to play in FLA when management wanted to deal him. I hate no trade clauses - they should be banned. Deals are huge fun for fans and fans supposedly pay the bills.
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Postby Guins on Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:50 pm

netwolf wrote:
Draftnik wrote:Shero and company must think Welch is not good enough to make the roster next year and wouldn't clear waivers to go back to WBS. It makes sense to use him right now as trade bait if they think he will be on the waiver wire in October.

If all this is true and your premise is correct, then their opinion has slipped even more than we think. Melichar, Nasreddine, and Scuderi are UFAs to be this summer. Whitney's contract is up, and while I believe he'll be re-signed, I wouldn't count him as signed until ink is actually put to paper.

Gonchar, Orpik, and Eaton are the only d-men under contract for next year. You can add Letang to the mix, though many think his positional defense could use a season in WB, before he jumps full-time to the NHL.

Given all that, I would think they'd want to keep Welch around, if for nothing more than insurance. I still think it's too soon to give up on him though.
well you know Scuderi will be here
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Postby NJ5934 on Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:51 pm

netwolf wrote:
Draftnik wrote:Shero and company must think Welch is not good enough to make the roster next year and wouldn't clear waivers to go back to WBS. It makes sense to use him right now as trade bait if they think he will be on the waiver wire in October.

If all this is true and your premise is correct, then their opinion has slipped even more than we think. Melichar, Nasreddine, and Scuderi are UFAs to be this summer. Whitney's contract is up, and while I believe he'll be re-signed, I wouldn't count him as signed until ink is actually put to paper.

Gonchar, Orpik, and Eaton are the only d-men under contract for next year. You can add Letang to the mix, though many think his positional defense could use a season in WB, before he jumps full-time to the NHL.

Given all that, I would think they'd want to keep Welch around, if for nothing more than insurance. I still think it's too soon to give up on him though.


Wow. Welch is fallen out of favor with management, but Letang is a shoe in next season?

Letang played....what....9 games? Welch was sent down to WBS to play of the top pairing.

This is getting scary. How some people can justify moving Welch for Bill Guerin or Gary Roberts is beyond me.
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Postby Draftnik on Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:51 pm

netwolf wrote:
Draftnik wrote:Shero and company must think Welch is not good enough to make the roster next year and wouldn't clear waivers to go back to WBS. It makes sense to use him right now as trade bait if they think he will be on the waiver wire in October.

If all this is true and your premise is correct, then their opinion has slipped even more than we think. Melichar, Nasreddine, and Scuderi are UFAs to be this summer. Whitney's contract is up, and while I believe he'll be re-signed, I wouldn't count him as signed until ink is actually put to paper.

Gonchar, Orpik, and Eaton are the only d-men under contract for next year. You can add Letang to the mix, though many think his positional defense could use a season in WB, before he jumps full-time to the NHL.

Given all that, I would think they'd want to keep Welch around, if for nothing more than insurance. I still think it's too soon to give up on him though.


Whitney will be back. There are new rules in the CBA about having to sign by November 1 (30?) or he can't play for the season. He also loses an accrued season of arbitration and UFA eligibility. The owners have much more leverage. I'd also say they've seen enough of Letang to know he will be here. That is 5 D by my count (4 if the don't qualify Orpik). You have to figure 1 of Naz, Scuds, and Melichar will be back at least for depth so the Pens are up to 6. Add in the next Mark Eaton and the Pens have 7. I'm sure Shero and the scouts have been plotting which UFAs they will target.
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Postby Titojones69 on Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:53 pm

netwolf wrote:
Draftnik wrote:Shero and company must think Welch is not good enough to make the roster next year and wouldn't clear waivers to go back to WBS. It makes sense to use him right now as trade bait if they think he will be on the waiver wire in October.

If all this is true and your premise is correct, then their opinion has slipped even more than we think. Melichar, Nasreddine, and Scuderi are UFAs to be this summer. Whitney's contract is up, and while I believe he'll be re-signed, I wouldn't count him as signed until ink is actually put to paper.

Gonchar, Orpik, and Eaton are the only d-men under contract for next year. You can add Letang to the mix, though many think his positional defense could use a season in WB, before he jumps full-time to the NHL.

Given all that, I would think they'd want to keep Welch around, if for nothing more than insurance. I still think it's too soon to give up on him though.



Hey whats up Net? I agree way to early to pull the plug unless Noah is gonna land something better then a rental...I dunno I trust Shero just seems to be promising but then again thats what makes him great trade bait
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Postby penny lane on Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:58 pm

Draftnik wrote:
Maestro wrote:any word on when the deadline is for Roberts to make his decision? I would guess it has to be sometime tomorrow morning.


No word but TSN and The Score speculated tomorrow morning. McKenzie just said Roberts is playing a game of chicken with Florida and Toronto. Supposedly Toronto is offering Bell, Kilger, and some picks. It isn't very enticing. I think Roberts will go back to Toronto in the end.


I agree. God Bless him if he thinks the leafs will go far.
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Postby netwolf on Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:59 pm

NJ5934 wrote:
netwolf wrote:If all this is true and your premise is correct, then their opinion has slipped even more than we think. Melichar, Nasreddine, and Scuderi are UFAs to be this summer. Whitney's contract is up, and while I believe he'll be re-signed, I wouldn't count him as signed until ink is actually put to paper.

Gonchar, Orpik, and Eaton are the only d-men under contract for next year. You can add Letang to the mix, though many think his positional defense could use a season in WB, before he jumps full-time to the NHL.

Given all that, I would think they'd want to keep Welch around, if for nothing more than insurance. I still think it's too soon to give up on him though.

Wow. Welch is fallen out of favor with management, but Letang is a shoe in next season?

Letang played....what....9 games? Welch was sent down to WBS to play of the top pairing.

This is getting scary. How some people can justify moving Welch for Bill Guerin or Gary Roberts is beyond me.

Either I am misreading your reply, or you are misreading my post. My whole post was made assuming the talk of Welch being out of favor was true. Based on that assumption, I opined that they should keep him anyhow, given the contract status of the other Pens d-men.

Letang was listed because he is under contract and some do expect him to be here next year. I did say that others think he'll still need time in WB.

And for the record, I don't like Welch for Roberts all that much.
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Postby Draftnik on Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:03 pm

NJ5934 wrote:
Draftnik wrote:Shero and company must think Welch is not good enough to make the roster next year and wouldn't clear waivers to go back to WBS. It makes sense to use him right now as trade bait if they think he will be on the waiver wire in October.


I agree, but offering him up in exchange for a rental?

Sopel was dealt for picks. I find it hard to believe that Shero is going to offer up a top defensive prospect for a 40 year old who likely will play two months in a Pens sweater. Good lord, a couple loses and we out of a playoff spot. Some of the suggestions I'm reading on this board are insane. We are not Anaheim or Nashville. We still have a ways to go. Roberts or Guerin are not going to be around when we are in this position next year, or the year after. Welch on the other hand...will be. And he'll probably be a key figure. I can't see the justification of giving him up for a rental. In a year or two when we are (hopefully) at the top of the league standings......different story, but today.....no way.

I really hope some of these rumors are just that.


My POV is very different than others on the board. I still see Shero and Therrien trying to change the culture of the organIzation. A guy like Roberts can really be a positive influence for future seasons even if he is only a rental. Welch has probably gone the way of Pavel Skrbek, a 2nd round pick the Pens dealt for Bob Boughner at the deadline back in 00.

I usually check the shift charts at NHL.com after games and if you look at how the Pens deployed Welch they were afraid to use him many times in the last 10 minutes of a close game, he rarely if ever killed penalties, and he forced the Pens to split up the Whitney/Scuds pairing back in December (?) because they had to get Orpik and Welch apart since they both were so unreliable in their own end. They used Scuds as a blanked for Welch and Whitney for Orpik. That lasted for a few games until Naz came up and steadied things. They also see Welch at WBS so I have to assume Shero and his staff know what they are doing.
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Postby Jim on Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:18 pm

What is the upside of adding Roberts to this team?
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Postby Sams_Dog on Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:22 pm

I see what people are saying about Roberts or Guerin helping with a playoff run. If they get us into the second round or third then that means a lot of money for the team and the financial aspects cannot be ignored. It's a gamble and maybe I am thinking too conservatively but I know that power forwards have very short life expectancies after age 35. Roberts has been an exception.

But doesn't it make a lot more financial sense to ensure that we have a successful team down the road? I really see Welch as a very solid #2 or #3 D-man long-term. It is just too early to give up on him now. Defenseman take longer to mature. He played like four games last year and 22 this year. Malone I can stand to lose, he has been given plenty of opportunities. Welch is different. I just don't see Letang stepping in next fall and playing as well as people think he might.
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Postby pfim on Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:24 pm

I see what people are saying about Roberts or Guerin helping with a playoff run.


I think he would help ensure they make the playoffs. After that, anything else is gravy.
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Postby spi on Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:26 pm

What are the chances that Shero pulls the deal off the table since Roberts apparently cant decide whether he wants to be a Penguin. I really am hoping that Shero comes to his senses. If he is willing to deal Welch, I am sure that he could get a guy who is WAY younger than Roberts and has the possibility of signing him after this year. Maybe not Welch for that player but as part of a deal. I am really surprised that Shero is going in this direction based on all he has said. Seems to me to be pretty contradictory.
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Postby Henry Hank on Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:28 pm

It's only contradictory if you're assuming the Pens feel he is part of the future. It doesn't look like to me that they consider him a part of the future or any kind of top prospect. Given the way he failed to stick in Pittsburgh this season despite a few opportunities and given what Phil Bourque said recently, it doesn't look like Shero's very high on Welch at this point.
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