2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

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2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby pittsoccer33 on Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:56 pm

Spoiler:
Every few months a thread pops up on here asking for advice on buying a new television. Since I’ve been selling them for a year now I feel like I am pretty qualified to offer opinions and give advice on whether or not a price you found is a good one.

Since sales have been picking up with football season starting and Christmas will be here before you know it, I decided to put a guide together with my thoughts on what the best overall value tv sets this year are.

I am going to leave out the ultra high end/commercial grade tvs and just go with what you would commonly find deals on at Best Buy, Amazon, Costco, Sears, etc. I am going to write this guide under the assumption you are looking for a “big” tv, between 40-60”

When you are weighing your budget and what features you want these are the main ones to consider:

Resolution: 1080p or 720p. The number of lines of detail in the image. 1080p is not really important in tv sizes 40” and under because the image is just not largest enough for anyone but those with the best vision to make out the tiny detail

Refresh rate: The number of times per second an image is displayed. Also can be explained as how many times per second the picture is cleaned up. Plasma is a standard 600hz. LED/LCD come in at 120hz and 240hz. The entry level is 60hz. I honestly think this makes a bigger difference to image quality than the resolution does. I have a hard time discerning anything about 120, but it really is a large difference between 60hz and 120hz. Any LCD/LED you see with a number like 480, 720, 960, etc is a marketing mumbo jumbo number and is based on some kind of internal processing.

Contrast: I never look at contrast as an advertised number. There is no standard for measuring it. Sony says their LEDs have infinite contrast, and that’s because they measure the light reading with the LEDs turned off. Of course that number won’t be an accurate measurement of the overall ratio of light to dark. Any of the midrange or higher LEDs and mostly all plasmas have very good contrast ratios.

3D: More sets are 3D this year than before. 3D is a standard feature on many more sets as manufacturers try coming up with reasons for you to upgrade. There are two main types, active and passive. Active uses fancy glasses with lcd screens that sync to your tv set and only let light into one eye at a time. Passive are similar to the RealD glasses you get at the movie theater. At first plasma with active glasses was the only way to see all the lines of resolution, but LG has made huge strides with their passive Cinema 3D LEDs this year.

Connectivity: Getting on the internet is another thing manufacturers are pushing. Also the ability to use the tv as a digital media player, playing music and movies from your pc or from a usb drive. What you can do on the internet is another good question to ask. Is there a web browser or just connected widgets and apps? Is wifi built in? Can a wifi adapter be purchased?

I am going to list off a number of different model lines that are very popular this year. Some stores will sell an almost identical set with a slightly different model number. This is usually just to help enforce/defeat a competitor’s price matching policy. Also around the holidays all of the stores will get a “special” version of a tv in. They come in colorful boxes (hint: colorful boxes are used on less nice tvs ) and usually have less hdmi ports, no internet connections, and less contrast.

These aren’t necessarily the best new tv’s available and I am not ranking them based on stated specs or calibration tools. Just my observations to give you an idea where to start when you head to the store

LED:
Samsung D6000 LED. There are four main tv’s in 6000 series. Some stores might use different model numbers but these are the four feature sets. All are 1080p, 120hz, and internet enabled. These are by far the best selling line of tv’s my store carries this year. They have many internet apps, motion settings, and can play the widest number of file types. The Yahoo Fantasy Football app was a pretty popular demonstration point last Sunday, with the app popping up to show off updated scores.

6000: 1080p/120hz/Internet enabled. 46” $1100; 55” $1500
6300: full blown web browser. 46” $1200; 55” $1650
6400: edgeless, higher contrast ratio, 3D. 46” $1400; 55” $1800
6900: edgeless, higher contrast ratio, 3D, full blown web browser. 46” $1600; 55” $2000.

LG LV5500: A direct competitor to the Samsung 6000 line, this guy includes the wifi adapter and a neat Wii style pointer remote for controlling internet apps. 46” $1200; 55” $1500

LG LW5300: A lower priced, high quality 3D LED. It lacks internet connectivity but comes bundled with a bluray player and four sets of glasses. 46” and 3D bluray player $1000; 55” and 3D bluray player $1500

Sony EX720: Sony is pricing this aggressively this year. I often see it priced BELOW the step down model when it’s on sale. 120hz and 3D. 46” $1400; 55” $1800.

Sharp 830 series: Uses their Quattron yellow pixel technology that was heavily advertised last year. Sharp is a good value tv, all features considered. 120hz, wifi built in, internet apps. 52” $1300, 60” $1800. The 70” you see advertised is not part of this series but shares identical specs for the most part. You can find it around $2700-$3000.

Vizio XVT: The largest combination of features for the lowest price. 240hz, 3D, lots of internet apps, neat qwerty remote. Hard to price them because they are typically only sold online by big boxes and in membership warehouses, so promotional pricing fluctuates with them a good bit.

Samsung D7000 and D8000: Probably the nicest LEDs available. 240hz, wifi built in, comes with a $100 qwerty remote, 3D. The 8000 has some more ultra premium image enhancement capabilities. Both look really awesome. 55” 7000 around $2200, 55” 8000 around $3500. If you want an extremely nice LED and don’t want to waste money just to say you own the statistically “best” one, go for a D7000.

Plasma
Most of my customers buying plasma either want a 60+ inch model for a game room or are looking for a big tv on a tighter budget. Plasma gives you the biggest screen for the least amount of money, as well as accurate color, deep contrast, and fluid motion. They still have a bad reputation for burn in, although that is very uncommon on new sets. Performance in brightly lit rooms, however, is a definite mark against them. They can’t get as bright to overcome sunlight and their glass screens reflect more of the light.

I am going to leave off the high end plasmas because I feel like if you’re in the market for one you already know what you’re looking for.

Panasonic S30/ST30. The T models add 3D support. I recently saw the 50” S30 on sale for $700. Limited internet options (includes Netflix, Pandora, and a few others) but a nice picture and good price. Typically the S30 is around $900 for a 50”, $1400 for a 60”


Here is how I would generally rank tv types and models

1) great plasma:
- Panasonic VT30
- Samsung D7000
- Samsung D8000
- LG PZ950

2) great led:
- Samsung D7000
- Samsung D8000
- Sony HX929/NX720
- LG LW6500
- Sharp Elite

3) very good plasma
- Samsung D6500
- Panasonic GT30
- LG PZ750

4) very good led:
- Samsung D6400
- Samsung D6900
- Sony EX720
- Sharp LE830
- Vizio XVT

5) good led:
- Samsung D6000
- Samsung D6300
- LG LV5500
- LG LW5300
- Sony EX620
- Sharp 630
- other Vizio LED (models numbers tend to vary)
- Toshiba SL412

6) good plasma
- Panasonic S/ST30,
- Samsung 550
- LG 450

7) good lcd
- Samsung D600,
- Sony 520,
- Vizio ExxxVL,
- Panasonic Useries

8) ok lcd:
- Samsung D500
- Sony 420
- Panasonic C series
- Vizio

9) ok plasma:
Panasonic Xseries
- Samsung 450
- LG 350
- Zenith (owned/produced by LG)

10) basic led/lcd 720p by Samsung, Sony, LG, Vizio

11) all other lcd – Sanyo, RCA, Insignia, Magnavox, Dynex, Hisense, Sylvania, Westinghouse, Element, Emerson

I personally don’t think any HDTV looks “bad.” Some look much better than others, and display a much greater depth of contrast and smoothness in motion. The reason I ranked those brands last is not even so much for picture quality, it has more to do with reliability. I would put any of them in my bedroom or kitchen as a second tv but would worry about investing in one for daily viewing.



I am going to edit this for the Christmas shopping season with the best tvs available in the major black friday ads. Many of the stores are carrying the same items at the same prices. Some prices are door busters, some are valid all weekend. Ive listed them in descending order from best tv on down. Double check the ads for more info before you head out. The original list and info is hidden in the spoiler box. I will update as I have time w/ more tv's and other home theater gear. I will *** items that I think are particularly good values based on common selling prices. I'd guestimate that most of these are 10% off the "normal" sales price, and the best ones are more than that. HH Gregg's Samsung D6000 60" LED for $1499 is about $7-800 off the normal price.
------------------------------------------------------------
This section is all tv thats are normal 2011 models

Samsung D7000 - 1080p 240hz 3D Smart TV LED
55": Sears, HH Gregg - $1799***

Sony HX729 - 1080p 240hz 3D Smart TV LED
55": HH Gregg - $1368***
46": HH Gregg - $998

Sony NX720 - 1080p 120hz 3D Smart LED w/ 2 pairs of glasses, Chronicles of Narnia, and 5.1 bluray HTIB
55": Sears, Best Buy - $1698
46": Best Buy - $1398

Samsung D6400 - 1080p 120hz 3D Smart LED
46": HH Gregg - $1149
40": HH Gregg - $999

Panasonic ST30 - 1080p 600hz 3D Smart Plasma
55": Sears - $1099***

Samsung D6000 - 1080p 120hz Smart LED
60": HH Gregg - $1499***
55": Sears, HH Gregg - $1099***
40": HH Gregg - $729

Panasonic S30 - 1080p 600hz Plasma tv w/ minimal internet services
50": Best Buy $599, Sears $699

LG LW5300: 1080p 120hz 3D LED tv w/ bluray player and four pairs of glasses
55": Sears, HH Gregg - $1199
47": Walmart, HH Gregg - $798

Sony NSXGT1 - 1080p 60hz LED w/ Google TV
46": HH Gregg - $799
40": HH Gregg - $599

Samsung D530 - 1080p 600hz Plasma
51": HH Gregg, Sears - $649

Zenith PV220 - 1080p 600hz Plasma
50": Sears - $499***

Panasonic X3 - 720p 600hz Plasma
46": Best Buy - $399***
42": HH Gregg - $499

Samsung D430 - 720p 600hz Plasma
51": Walmart, HH Gregg - $499
43": Walmart - $398***

------------------------------------------------------------
This section is all tv's that are special holiday editions. Typically have less contrast and less input hookups. These are just the sizes I saw in the leaked ads, I know some of them exist in other sizes I'm just not sure who will have them and at what price.

Samsung D6003 - 1080p 120hz Smart LED
55": Best Buy - $999
46": Sears - $799

LG LV4400 - 1080p 120hz LED
55": Walmart $898***, Sears $999
47": Sears, Kmart - $679***
42": Best Buy - $499

Sharp LE632 1080p 120hz LED
70": Sears, HH Gregg - $1999

Sharp LE6300 1080p 120hz LED
60": Sears, HH Gregg - $999

Sharp E79 1080p 120hz LCD
60": Best Buy - $799***

Toshiba HT2U 1080p 120hz LCD
65": Walmart - $998

Samsung D5003 1080p 60hz LED
40": Sears, HH Gregg - $499

Samsung D503 1080p 60hz LCD
46": Sears, Walmart - $599
40": Sears, Best Buy, Walmart - $429

Samsung D4003 720p 60hz LED
32": Best Buy - $348

Samsung D403 720p 60hz LCD
32": Sears, HH Gregg, Best Buy, Target - $280

Hitatchi LE32H405 720 60hz LED
32": Kmart - $299
Last edited by pittsoccer33 on Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:51 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby Malkamaniac on Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:57 pm

Awesome, since you sell TV's, how about a good blu ray home theater system for around $400?
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby mac5155 on Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:08 pm

Malkamaniac wrote:Awesome, since you sell TV's, how about a good blu ray home theater system for around $400?


He sells TVs dude. Not BluRays.

:pop:
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby pittsoccer33 on Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:08 pm

I like to pair home theater in a box/bluray player brand with tv brand if it makes sense from a price/quality stand point. It helps with HDMI-CEC mixup issues. CEC is what allows you to send control commands over hdmi, so you can use the tv's remote to control the audio receiver.

The Samsung HT-D5500 has built in wifi and is around that price. Sony has an ok quality 5.1 bluray system for under $300 this year. None of the included speakers in these kits are world beaters but they are all way better than tv speakers and give you full sound immersion.
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby pittsoccer33 on Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:11 pm

mac5155 wrote:
Malkamaniac wrote:Awesome, since you sell TV's, how about a good blu ray home theater system for around $400?


He sells TVs dude. Not BluRays.

:pop:


Its a part time job. I do all electronics (cameras, home audio, etc). I wanted to get some more sales experience and I think its a lot of fun. 9-15 hours a week now; closer to 25-30 around Christmas.
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby mac5155 on Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:12 pm

b4 u get all BH i was joking mork :lol:
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby Malkamaniac on Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:12 pm

pittsoccer33 wrote:I like to pair home theater in a box/bluray player brand with tv brand if it makes sense from a price/quality stand point. It helps with HDMI-CEC mixup issues. CEC is what allows you to send control commands over hdmi, so you can use the tv's remote to control the audio receiver.

The Samsung HT-D5500 has built in wifi and is around that price. Sony has an ok quality 5.1 bluray system for under $300 this year. None of the included speakers in these kits are world beaters but they are all way better than tv speakers and give you full sound immersion.


We were actually looking at that samsung set up. I just bought a 47 inch insignia, and the Mrs. wants to buy me a home theater system to go along with it.
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby mac5155 on Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:15 pm

Shad didnt get u a BRP for a wedding gift? psh some friend
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby Letang Is The Truth on Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:27 pm

Which 3D model would you recommend? are there tv shows broadcast in 3d? whats the quality like? is it worth buying a 3d soon or will the technology change in the near future that its worth waiting?
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:35 pm

We just got a VIZIO 55" 1080p 480Hz with built-in WiFi and Internet apps for $1500 delivered. Over the moon with the thing, only complaint is that it seems to take a full minute for a picture to appear after you turn the thing on.
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby mac5155 on Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:42 pm

How much are those 70 inch LG LED TVs
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby Letang Is The Truth on Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:44 pm

i know they sell 70 inch LEDs at costco for like 2300 ish?
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby LeopardLetang on Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:58 pm

great stuff pitt.

what's your opinion about that LCD/LED "motion enhancement" thing. i can't remember what they call it. i was near set to get a $900 plasma panasonic recently, but that "digital motion" thing is very intriguing. it almost makes movies look fake - or like you're looking through the camera filming it. i first saw it three summers ago and it was the most noticeable upgrade i've seen in a while. it didn't seem to be directly related to hz so i'm a bit confused by it. last time i went to best buy they weren't advertising any tvs with it. is it simply standard now?
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby pittsoccer33 on Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:01 am

mac5155 wrote:How much are those 70 inch LG LED TVs


I read a while back that LG was working on a massive (70" or 75") LED and I feel like I remember it going on sale in Asia, but the largest commonly available one here is a 65" version of their high end LW6500.

Samsung has a 75" D9500 on sale in Korea. Allegedly it is coming here for $13,000.

If you saw a 70" Sharp at Costco for that price thats a great buy on it. Initially they were selling for $3,000. Sale prices and promotions have brought it down a few hundred dollars but not that much (that I've seen reading all the stores weekly ads) A great thing about Costco is that they give an extra year of warranty coverage to any tv/computer/camera/etc that you buy. Then their three year service plan (beyond those first 2 years) is only $99. I have no idea exactly what it covers or if it is as comprehensive as some other stores, but nobody is competing with that price.

In fact, this past April during the hockey playoffs I had a middle aged lady and her 84 year old mother come into the store. The elderly lady said "I love watching hockey but my vision is going and I can't see the puck as well. What is the largest tv you carry?" And she bought one. I think it was her daughter pushing it on her thinking "in a few years this will be in MY house." You should have heard her rationalizing getting one THAT large it to her mom "well the grandkids will love to come visit to watch football and play video games on it :face: . Made the sale though.

LeopardLetang wrote:great stuff pitt.

what's your opinion about that LCD/LED "motion enhancement" thing. i can't remember what they call it. i was near set to get a $900 plasma panasonic recently, but that "digital motion" thing is very intriguing. it almost makes movies look fake - or like you're looking through the camera filming it. i first saw it three summers ago and it was the most noticeable upgrade i've seen in a while. it didn't seem to be directly related to hz so i'm a bit confused by it. last time i went to best buy they weren't advertising any tvs with it. is it simply standard now?


It is called different things by different manufacturers. LG calls it TruMotion. Sony calls it MotionFlow (from default settings I think Sonys looks best). Samsung's is Auto Motion Plus. The technical name for the term is usually called frame interpolation.

The idea comes from the frame rate of your source video. For simplicity lets say it is the bluray disc of Thor that I watched last night. Thor was filmed at the industry standard of 24 frames per second.

Many many years ago, when buying film was one of the most expensive parts of movie making (and then printing copies to show in cinemas) someone determined that 24 individual images per second was the fewest they could get buy using without the picture looking like crap.

Fast forward to the late 1940s when the NTSC television video standard was created. It called for a 60hz signal. So tv studios began shooting television at 30 frames per second (versus the movie industry at 24) and just showing you each frame twice on tv. 30 images, each shown twice, for 1/60th of a second.

Now what happens when Hollywood movies shot at 24fps are shown on a traditional 60hz television? A few different things can happen, but normally some frames are shown twice, some three times. Other times a blank frame can be thrown in there. This is called the 3:2 pull down.

A prominent feature on the new HDTVs it their ability to do a film mode, also called 24p. This is most prominent for bluray discs and other forms of streaming video that come in at 24fps.

This doesn't mean anything specifically, it just means that the television can recognize the source as having 24 individual frames each second. What the tv actually does with them is not standard.

Here are some things that could happen:

- It could just be the 3:2 pull down I already mentioned
- Each frame could be shown once, for 1/24th of a second. This will make the video flicker like you would see in an old time film strip. 1:1
- Each frame could be shown twice. 2:2. Some Panasonic plasma's still do this. It has too much flickering to make you want to watch it that way. Amounts to a 48hz video.
- Each frame shown three times. 3:3. Common on many plasmas. 72hz video.
- Each frame shown four times. 4:4. Common on high end plasmas. 96hz video.
- Each frame is shown five times. 5:5. This is why you bought a 120hz television.

Now, those advances processing modes you mentioned can have several settings, but they take showing each frame five times for 1/120th of a second a step further. The most typical setting is that they show you 24 REAL frames per second (the 24 frames that are actually on your bluray disc), and then use computer algorithms to artificially create 96 phony images. So you see 120 different images per second, one real one followed by four fake ones. It figures out what would be the four logical frames to get from real frame 1 to real frame 2, and draws them in.

That is why it almost looks so creepy, because the more frames per second you use the more real the image is actually going to look, and we are not used to watching tv that way. I said one day at work, I wonder how long it will take Hollywood to start shooting at higher frame rates now that the work is digital, and digital costs less than film. It wasn't two weeks later that James Cameron announced he was working on cameras to shoot at something like 480fps for the Avatar sequel. Time for a new tv!

The other part of it is that 80% of what you are seeing on screen is digitally created and is not real. On closeups of a person's face you will see their nostrils or teeth moving around because the technology is not perfect.

The video signal from your cable box is 60hz. That 30fps from the 1940s each shown two times. The tv can do the exact same type of processing, the fractions of a second images are shown are just different.

Samsung's tvs have around 5 or 6 different settings for this, mixing real and fake frames. I think the default Sony setting adds the most without looking over the top. This type of setting is less common on plasma televisions because of their 600hz refresh. If a plasma can show 24fps at least 4 times each, then I think that is the most natural way to achieve fluid motion.

I think it looks best in general on animation, where you have no real world basis for comparing what you see. My television does have have one of these modes, and if I owned one I think I would keep it off for the most part, but it would be a nice feature to have.
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby mac5155 on Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:12 am

Ah, yes it was Sharp, not LG. Still, I WANT ONE
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby LeopardLetang on Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:12 pm

Spoiler:
pittsoccer33 wrote:
mac5155 wrote:How much are those 70 inch LG LED TVs


I read a while back that LG was working on a massive (70" or 75") LED and I feel like I remember it going on sale in Asia, but the largest commonly available one here is a 65" version of their high end LW6500.

Samsung has a 75" D9500 on sale in Korea. Allegedly it is coming here for $13,000.

If you saw a 70" Sharp at Costco for that price thats a great buy on it. Initially they were selling for $3,000. Sale prices and promotions have brought it down a few hundred dollars but not that much (that I've seen reading all the stores weekly ads) A great thing about Costco is that they give an extra year of warranty coverage to any tv/computer/camera/etc that you buy. Then their three year service plan (beyond those first 2 years) is only $99. I have no idea exactly what it covers or if it is as comprehensive as some other stores, but nobody is competing with that price.

In fact, this past April during the hockey playoffs I had a middle aged lady and her 84 year old mother come into the store. The elderly lady said "I love watching hockey but my vision is going and I can't see the puck as well. What is the largest tv you carry?" And she bought one. I think it was her daughter pushing it on her thinking "in a few years this will be in MY house." You should have heard her rationalizing getting one THAT large it to her mom "well the grandkids will love to come visit to watch football and play video games on it :face: . Made the sale though.

LeopardLetang wrote:great stuff pitt.

what's your opinion about that LCD/LED "motion enhancement" thing. i can't remember what they call it. i was near set to get a $900 plasma panasonic recently, but that "digital motion" thing is very intriguing. it almost makes movies look fake - or like you're looking through the camera filming it. i first saw it three summers ago and it was the most noticeable upgrade i've seen in a while. it didn't seem to be directly related to hz so i'm a bit confused by it. last time i went to best buy they weren't advertising any tvs with it. is it simply standard now?


It is called different things by different manufacturers. LG calls it TruMotion. Sony calls it MotionFlow (from default settings I think Sonys looks best). Samsung's is Auto Motion Plus. The technical name for the term is usually called frame interpolation.

The idea comes from the frame rate of your source video. For simplicity lets say it is the bluray disc of Thor that I watched last night. Thor was filmed at the industry standard of 24 frames per second.

Many many years ago, when buying film was one of the most expensive parts of movie making (and then printing copies to show in cinemas) someone determined that 24 individual images per second was the fewest they could get buy using without the picture looking like crap.

Fast forward to the late 1940s when the NTSC television video standard was created. It called for a 60hz signal. So tv studios began shooting television at 30 frames per second (versus the movie industry at 24) and just showing you each frame twice on tv. 30 images, each shown twice, for 1/60th of a second.

Now what happens when Hollywood movies shot at 24fps are shown on a traditional 60hz television? A few different things can happen, but normally some frames are shown twice, some three times. Other times a blank frame can be thrown in there. This is called the 3:2 pull down.

A prominent feature on the new HDTVs it their ability to do a film mode, also called 24p. This is most prominent for bluray discs and other forms of streaming video that come in at 24fps.

This doesn't mean anything specifically, it just means that the television can recognize the source as having 24 individual frames each second. What the tv actually does with them is not standard.

Here are some things that could happen:

- It could just be the 3:2 pull down I already mentioned
- Each frame could be shown once, for 1/24th of a second. This will make the video flicker like you would see in an old time film strip. 1:1
- Each frame could be shown twice. 2:2. Some Panasonic plasma's still do this. It has too much flickering to make you want to watch it that way. Amounts to a 48hz video.
- Each frame shown three times. 3:3. Common on many plasmas. 72hz video.
- Each frame shown four times. 4:4. Common on high end plasmas. 96hz video.
- Each frame is shown five times. 5:5. This is why you bought a 120hz television.

Now, those advances processing modes you mentioned can have several settings, but they take showing each frame five times for 1/120th of a second a step further. The most typical setting is that they show you 24 REAL frames per second (the 24 frames that are actually on your bluray disc), and then use computer algorithms to artificially create 96 phony images. So you see 120 different images per second, one real one followed by four fake ones. It figures out what would be the four logical frames to get from real frame 1 to real frame 2, and draws them in.

That is why it almost looks so creepy, because the more frames per second you use the more real the image is actually going to look, and we are not used to watching tv that way. I said one day at work, I wonder how long it will take Hollywood to start shooting at higher frame rates now that the work is digital, and digital costs less than film. It wasn't two weeks later that James Cameron announced he was working on cameras to shoot at something like 480fps for the Avatar sequel. Time for a new tv!

The other part of it is that 80% of what you are seeing on screen is digitally created and is not real. On closeups of a person's face you will see their nostrils or teeth moving around because the technology is not perfect.

The video signal from your cable box is 60hz. That 30fps from the 1940s each shown two times. The tv can do the exact same type of processing, the fractions of a second images are shown are just different.

Samsung's tvs have around 5 or 6 different settings for this, mixing real and fake frames. I think the default Sony setting adds the most without looking over the top. This type of setting is less common on plasma televisions because of their 600hz refresh. If a plasma can show 24fps at least 4 times each, then I think that is the most natural way to achieve fluid motion.

I think it looks best in general on animation, where you have no real world basis for comparing what you see. My television does have have one of these modes, and if I owned one I think I would keep it off for the most part, but it would be a nice feature to have.


wow, thanks for the info, ps33. i agree it looks best with animation.
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby columbia on Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:13 pm

This is nutz.....bookmarked.

:thumb:
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby Mr. Colby on Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:53 pm

I just purchased a 40" Sharp LED LE830... for $649.95 on Amazon

Amazing deal, great TV, love it so far
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby mac5155 on Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:02 pm

Pittsoccer: can i get a review on both of these plox?

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Samsung-PN51D450/15992350

^ this one was in their weekly ad for $628. not sure where the current price came from.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Vizio-E421VO/15992341

I realize there's a bit of a price difference, AND, its Walmart. But the GF works there, and we do get 10% off. I want to hold out for black friday because I know they will have a kickin deal, but maybe if i put it on layaway there now and hold off til BF, I can return the one from layaway. (Walmart associates get to start free layaway on 10/10/11)

I've just never wanted to buy plasma. But 51" sounds good (TWSS!)
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby manicmonday18 on Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:44 am

I'm gonna get real specific so pittsoccer, if you are around, gimme your thoughts.

I have a Samsung 46" LCD (LN46c670) that i bought about 15 months ago. I love this TV. It is perfect in every way. Sports, blu ray, blacks, whites, everything looks fantastic. I have a room with a lot of windows both directly behind the tv and 90 degrees from the screen and I can always adjust the windows for good viewing (never have to adjust the tv, which is nice). I can turn the TV on it's stand or watch it at angles and the picture is fantastic. I use the internetTV portion for pandora and netflix primarily, and occasionally you tube. Moral of the story: i love this TV.

Now I am faced with purchasing a new one to use in the same room (the TV I love is moving to another house). I want to go bigger if possible, but I am kinda concerned about the fact that I will almost have to buy an LED TV at this point because since last year most manufacturers seem to simply make them as opposed to original LCDs now. My issue with this is, I want to have the same kind of viewing experience I have now...which seems to be the perfect one. I don't care about saving energy, i don't care about the thinness of the tv (my current one is thin and light enough, I can't imagine needing it thinner), and I want to stick with Samsung since I love my current TV and I have a samsung blu ray.

I like doing business with crutchfield for many reasons, but am not opposed to best buy as I got my last TV there. I have been looking at the Samsung UN55D6000(s) at both Crutchfield and best buy. It is 55 inch, LED, and about $1400-1500.

1. Is this tv going to provide me with as good of viewing as my 46" Samsung LN46c670?
2. Is upgrading to 55" and paying about $1500 going to inherently make this product a lower level LED because of the low-ish price?
3. What is the deal with LED? I understand people gripe about the blacks and lighting in the corners but that is simply how LED Tvs work, right? Does going up higher models decrease this or no?
4. Would you suggest maybe sticking with 46" because perhaps my satisfaction with the TV I have is linked to the fact that the TV is smaller and therefore any flaws may be less noticeable?
5. What are your thoughts on the Samsung UN55D6000? Is it worth the price? Also would you consider moving up to the next model or is that unnecessary at this point?
6. Do you think that current 55" LEDs are worth $500-600 more than my current tv which satisfies all my need and I can get another similar one for about $840?

Sorry about the specifics...any help from you guys would be useful. I am heading out now to check out some of these tvs in person...ill check back on anyone feedback later.
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby pittsoccer33 on Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:22 am

mac5155 wrote:Pittsoccer: can i get a review on both of these plox?

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Samsung-PN51D450/15992350

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Vizio-E421VO/15992341


Those are both pretty basic tvs. I'm less familiar with that particular Vizio model.

Thats a pretty normal price on the Samsung plasma. It's a basic 720p model with a nice picture. No internet connectivity, but I am pretty sure it can play compressed mkv/mp4 from a USB drive.

Panasonic's plasmas are generally better regarded. The most similar model is the X3, which is about $20 more at my store. I don't think Walmart carries their plasma sets now though.

Another thing to think about at Walmart is Sanyo LCD. They are owned by Panasonic now and it looks like the plan is to turn it into an above average off brand.
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby mac5155 on Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:24 am

pittsoccer33 wrote:
mac5155 wrote:Pittsoccer: can i get a review on both of these plox?

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Samsung-PN51D450/15992350

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Vizio-E421VO/15992341


Those are both pretty basic tvs. I'm less familiar with that particular Vizio model.

Thats a pretty normal price on the Samsung plasma. It's a basic 720p model with a nice picture. No internet connectivity, but I am pretty sure it can play compressed mkv/mp4 from a USB drive.

Panasonic's plasmas are generally better regarded. The most similar model is the X3, which is about $20 more at my store. I don't think Walmart carries their plasma sets now though.

Another thing to think about at Walmart is Sanyo LCD. They are owned by Panasonic now and it looks like the plan is to turn it into an above average off brand.


Thanks. Like I said we are trying to stick with Walmart. I don't exactly want to, but with her discounts, it's almost worth it.
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby RJW76 on Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:36 am

Is it true that as far as pricing goes, it's best to wait until Jan/Feb? Someone told me this because the new stuff comes out in Mar/Apr so there's a lot of closeouts.
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby mac5155 on Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:51 am

I want to wait until Black Friday TBH.
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby pittsoccer33 on Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:12 am

If I remember correctly, the C670 was Best Buy's version of the C650 (which most stores got). Like I said earlier, the main reason for carrying their own model number sku is so that they can enforce/defeat a competitors price matching policy. The C650 was a very nice LCD - a very uniform color and fluid motion

With Samsung, when you go up in model numbers (6000, 6300, 6400, 6900) you generally get two things: more contrast with each step and more internet features. Last year they had two main models per series: the 630 (no internet/slightly lower contrast) and the 650 (redish "touch of color" bezel, internet, higher contrast).


1. Is this tv going to provide me with as good of viewing as my 46" Samsung LN46c670? I am inclined to say yes, but that is really up to you. 150,000:1 vs 5,000,000:1 contrast. Those numbers can be greatly exaggerated and can vary from brand to brand, but the fact is the the led technology is very superior in terms of darkest darks to brightest brights. When you can get something closer to true black all other colors pop more.

2. Is upgrading to 55" and paying about $1500 going to inherently make this product a lower level LED because of the low-ish price? No. The prices have just come down that much this year. last year on black friday the C6300 (most similar to this year's D6000) was $1500, the lowest it was ever priced. This week we are selling the D6000 for $1500 with a free bluray player (better quality, more features).

3. What is the deal with LED? I understand people gripe about the blacks and lighting in the corners but that is simply how LED Tvs work, right? Does going up higher models decrease this or no? Blacks are definitely not a gripe. They are much better than even your high end LCD. This year's Sony HX929 seems to have gotten a black level even lower than the Panasonic VT Series plasma.

Regarding light in the corners, you definitely see that on cheap off brand LED (RCA). The "affordable" LED tvs are all edge-lit, meaning that the light shines from the edge of the screen toward the middle. as a result, the corners seem to be double lit. I personally cannot notice it. I feel like that is something somebody on AVSForum with a calibration tool finds and then reports to the rest of the obsessive people on there. Just head to a store and check them out and see for your self.




4. Would you suggest maybe sticking with 46" because perhaps my satisfaction with the TV I have is linked to the fact that the TV is smaller and therefore any flaws may be less noticeable? For me, I always think bigger is better (within reason). It is true that standard definition programming (like DVD) looks worse as the screen gets bigger. The main thing to counter your perception of that is how big the screen is versus how far away you sit. Also, the Samsung BD Wise upscalling technology is very good.

My question is, how often are you watching something, be it a hockey game or college football or an action movie or a sitcom and say I wish the screen was a little bigger? Do you watch it from another room, like the kitchen, when preparing dinner? Do you like to entertain people for sporting events?


5. What are your thoughts on the Samsung UN55D6000? Is it worth the price? Also would you consider moving up to the next model or is that unnecessary at this point?
The D6000 is our best selling tv this year by a large margin because it is a great value relative to the price. The picture quality is very good and it has a lot of internet options. The 46" goes on sale around $1000, which is what our black friday price was for your LCD last year.

The 6300 is basically the same tv with a web browser. Not worth an extra $200 or so to me.

The 6400 is my favorite. It has an ultra thin bezel and can do 3D. I am pretty sure the contrast is the same as the 6000, but it does seem that the color pops a bit more. It has a higher Clear Motion Rate, which is a spec made up by Samsung that measures refresh as well as processing and LED strobing. No web browser

The 6900 features 3D, higher contrast, and a web browser.


6. Do you think that current 55" LEDs are worth $500-600 more than my current tv which satisfies all my need and I can get another similar one for about $840? If you could find another C650/C670 brand new I imagine it would be a low clearance price. It sold brand new for about what the 46" D6000 sells for now. I would much rather have a 55" over a 46" if I could afford it. I think your tv is an extremely nice one and would be in the running as one of the nicest LCDs ever made. Having said that, LED technology is much better.
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