Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

[columbia]

Froggy is correct. This is not a hate crime. Hate crimes require violence, there was no violence here. If you want to suggest that a thrown banana is violent, I want to suggest that you check out the real world.

Cross burning in Calif. suburb brings FBI into hate crime investigation
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162- ... 04083.html

[Henry Hank]

Hate crimes do not require violence.

[Idoit40fans]

Almost every single definition I can find suggests that they do. They're either direct violence against an individual or vandalism.

At the very least, it requires that some other crime be committed specifically because of someone's race. Im not sure what crime they're committing. Certainly violating rules set by the arena, but no crime.

[doublem]

http://definitions.uslegal.com/h/hate-crime/

[doublem]

The guy may have been a Detroit fan according to Twitter.

[Draftnik]

Almost every single definition I can find suggests that they do. They're either direct violence against an individual or vandalism.

At the very least, it requires that some other crime be committed specifically because of someone's race. Im not sure what crime they're committing. Certainly violating rules set by the arena, but no crime.

2008 FBI Hate Crime stats:

http://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press- ... tatistics/

There were 5,542 hate crime offenses classified as crimes against persons in 2008. Intimidation accounted for 48.8 percent of crimes against persons, simple assaults for 32.1 percent, and aggravated assaults for 18.5 percent. Seven murders were reported as hate crimes.

Nearly 50% DID NOT involve violence

Example Hate Crime statute from Illinois:

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/do ... 12-7.1.htm

Sec. 12‑7.1. Hate crime.
(a) A person commits hate crime when, by reason of the actual or perceived race, color, creed, religion, ancestry, gender, sexual orientation, physical or mental disability, or national origin of another individual or group of individuals, regardless of the existence of any other motivating factor or factors, he commits assault, battery, aggravated assault, misdemeanor theft, criminal trespass to residence, misdemeanor criminal damage to property, criminal trespass to vehicle, criminal trespass to real property, mob action or disorderly conduct

http://ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/fullte ... 00050K26-1

Sec. 26‑1. Elements of the Offense.
(a) A person commits disorderly conduct when he knowingly:
(1) Does any act in such unreasonable manner as to
alarm or disturb another and to provoke a breach of the peace; or...

This was obviously disorderly conduct. Throwing a banana at a white player with no black players in proximity is simply disorderly conduct. Throwing it at a black player (the irony of the poster using "connotation") makes it a hate crime.

[Rocco]

Throwing bananas at a black player? Who do these guys think they are, European?

[Draftnik]

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/SPORT/footb ... ia.russia/

[shmenguin]

I don't get why this is a legal debate. Some people don't connote this with a "hate crime". That's perfectly reasonable. Other people think that adding a bit of harmless non sequitur into this thread isn't a big deal. Whether it's ok to go nuclear on those people is how we got here.

Debating the law is missing the point - like froggy said

[Gaucho]

Throwing bananas at a black player? Who do these guys think they are, European?

Extremely funny, Rocco. Thanks.

[Draftnik]

Hate crime laws have been passed to discourage ethnic (or other forms) intimidation. Thinking ethnic intimidation requires a noose is ignorant. The FBI data is based on real statistics. The FBI and various state legislatures did not consult with me when defining what constitutes a hate crime. The term means what it means. It isn't ambiguous.

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2008/incidents.html

The stats are very clear:

Crimes against persons

Law enforcement reported 5,542 hate crime offenses as crimes against persons. By offense type:

48.8 percent were intimidation.
32.1 percent were simple assault.
18.5 percent were aggravated assault.
0.3 percent consisted of 7 murders and 11 forcible rapes.
0.3 percent involved the offense category other, which is collected only in the National Incident-Based Reporting System. (Based on Table 2.)

Nearly half (48.8%) of the hate crimes involving acts against people didn't involve any violence at all. Violent crimes (felonious) only accounted for 18.8% of hate crimes, a much smaller percentage. Simple assault is usually a misdemeanor, a minor offense. Aggravated assault is usually a felony, a serious offense.

If you factor in hate crimes against property in addition to people, non-violent crimes (ethnic intimidation) against people still make up 29.5% of incidents, again a much larger percentage than violent hate crimes.

Of the 9,168 reported hate crime offenses in 2008:

32.4 percent were destruction/damage/vandalism.
29.5 percent were intimidation.
19.4 percent were simple assault.
11.2 percent were aggravated assault.
7.5 percent were comprised of additional crimes against persons, property, and society. (Based on Table 2.)


Throwing a banana at a white hockey player and a black hockey player mean two totally different things. That is why hate crime laws were passed in some states to provide greater deterrent for crimes involving racial intimidation.

If people think its funny to make racially incendiary jokes its a statement of their ignorance.

It became a legal debate when posters tried to say hate crime was an inappropriate term to describe what happened. What happened is a hate crime in many places because hate crimes overwhelmingly don't involve beatings, murders, or other felonious violent crimes that already carry harsh penalties in most jurisdictions. Anybody that didn't already understand that was mistaken.

[Puffymuffin]

Throwing bananas at a black player? Who do these guys think they are, European?

[Physical_Graffiti]

Throwing bananas at a black player? Who do these guys think they are, European?

[Physical_Graffiti]

The guy may have been a Detroit fan according to Twitter.

There are many of those in this area, though. I'd probably rank Detroit as third or fourth in terms of the amount of fans they have: Toronto, Montreal, Detroit, Boston ( higher if you only take people who were alive for Bobb Orr's career into account).

[littlemoonboot]

Throwing bananas at a black player? Who do these guys think they are, European?

Sounds like something a Habs fan would do to Subban if he had a bad game, if anything.

[Mr. Colby]

This just in, Turbo was the one that threw the banana

[Rocco]

Throwing bananas at a black player? Who do these guys think they are, European?

I wouldn't have a joke to make if England could play a match on the continent without fans making monkey chants at their black players.

[DocEmrick]

Well...it was just a banana. I still think it was intended as a racial thing, but I would have been more alarmed and offended at watermelon or fried chicken being tossed though.

[llipgh2]

Well...it was just a banana. I still think it was intended as a racial thing, but I would have been more alarmed and offended at watermelon or fried chicken being tossed though.

I don't know...banana implies monkey or ape, which implies less than human. I think all three are equally offensive.

[Rocco]

Well...it was just a banana. I still think it was intended as a racial thing, but I would have been more alarmed and offended at watermelon or fried chicken being tossed though.

I'm not sure the last two would have the same connotation in Canada as they do in the US. Throwing a banana is pretty despicable.

[npv708]

Maybe the fan just thought he was low on potassium.

[JS©]

Well...it was just a banana. I still think it was intended as a racial thing, but I would have been more alarmed and offended at watermelon or fried chicken being tossed though.

Ever try to sneak a watermelon into a game?

[Gaucho]

Throwing a banana is pretty despicable.

Yes. Everywhere.

[cma3585]

What's worse? Racism or bigotry?

http://www.thepensblog.com/tpb/sep2011/ ... -homo.html

[columbia]

It's a competition?