Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Forum for hockey posts that are not Penguins-related.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby columbia on Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:22 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:Froggy is correct. This is not a hate crime. Hate crimes require violence, there was no violence here. If you want to suggest that a thrown banana is violent, I want to suggest that you check out the real world.



Cross burning in Calif. suburb brings FBI into hate crime investigation
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162- ... 04083.html
columbia
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 48,492
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:13 am
Location: If you don't have a seat at the table, you're probably on the menu.

Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby Henry Hank on Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:32 pm

Hate crimes do not require violence.
Henry Hank
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 12,480
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:31 pm

Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:46 pm

Almost every single definition I can find suggests that they do. They're either direct violence against an individual or vandalism.

At the very least, it requires that some other crime be committed specifically because of someone's race. Im not sure what crime they're committing. Certainly violating rules set by the arena, but no crime.
Idoit40fans
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 53,621
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:42 pm
Location: I'm sorry you feel that way

Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby doublem on Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:14 pm

doublem
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 13,430
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:05 pm

Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby doublem on Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:20 pm

The guy may have been a Detroit fan according to Twitter.
doublem
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 13,430
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:05 pm

Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby Draftnik on Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:27 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:Almost every single definition I can find suggests that they do. They're either direct violence against an individual or vandalism.

At the very least, it requires that some other crime be committed specifically because of someone's race. Im not sure what crime they're committing. Certainly violating rules set by the arena, but no crime.


2008 FBI Hate Crime stats:

http://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press- ... tatistics/

There were 5,542 hate crime offenses classified as crimes against persons in 2008. Intimidation accounted for 48.8 percent of crimes against persons, simple assaults for 32.1 percent, and aggravated assaults for 18.5 percent. Seven murders were reported as hate crimes.


Nearly 50% DID NOT involve violence

Example Hate Crime statute from Illinois:

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/do ... 12-7.1.htm

Sec. 12‑7.1. Hate crime.
(a) A person commits hate crime when, by reason of the actual or perceived race, color, creed, religion, ancestry, gender, sexual orientation, physical or mental disability, or national origin of another individual or group of individuals, regardless of the existence of any other motivating factor or factors, he commits assault, battery, aggravated assault, misdemeanor theft, criminal trespass to residence, misdemeanor criminal damage to property, criminal trespass to vehicle, criminal trespass to real property, mob action or disorderly conduct


http://ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/fullte ... 00050K26-1

Sec. 26‑1. Elements of the Offense.
(a) A person commits disorderly conduct when he knowingly:
(1) Does any act in such unreasonable manner as to
alarm or disturb another and to provoke a breach of the peace; or...


This was obviously disorderly conduct. Throwing a banana at a white player with no black players in proximity is simply disorderly conduct. Throwing it at a black player (the irony of the poster using "connotation") makes it a hate crime.
Draftnik
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,011
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:52 pm
Location: Peters Twp.

Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby Rocco on Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:31 pm

Throwing bananas at a black player? Who do these guys think they are, European?
Rocco
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 36,335
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:34 am
Location: Manor Farm

Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby Draftnik on Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:41 pm

Draftnik
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,011
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:52 pm
Location: Peters Twp.

Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby shmenguin on Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:27 pm

I don't get why this is a legal debate. Some people don't connote this with a "hate crime". That's perfectly reasonable. Other people think that adding a bit of harmless non sequitur into this thread isn't a big deal. Whether it's ok to go nuclear on those people is how we got here.

Debating the law is missing the point - like froggy said
shmenguin
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 23,257
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:34 pm

Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby Gaucho on Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:42 pm

Rocco wrote:Throwing bananas at a black player? Who do these guys think they are, European?


Extremely funny, Rocco. Thanks.
Gaucho
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 42,215
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:22 am
Location: The Onyx Club

Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby Draftnik on Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:05 pm

Hate crime laws have been passed to discourage ethnic (or other forms) intimidation. Thinking ethnic intimidation requires a noose is ignorant. The FBI data is based on real statistics. The FBI and various state legislatures did not consult with me when defining what constitutes a hate crime. The term means what it means. It isn't ambiguous.

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2008/incidents.html

The stats are very clear:

Crimes against persons

Law enforcement reported 5,542 hate crime offenses as crimes against persons. By offense type:

48.8 percent were intimidation.
32.1 percent were simple assault.
18.5 percent were aggravated assault.
0.3 percent consisted of 7 murders and 11 forcible rapes.
0.3 percent involved the offense category other, which is collected only in the National Incident-Based Reporting System. (Based on Table 2.)

Nearly half (48.8%) of the hate crimes involving acts against people didn't involve any violence at all. Violent crimes (felonious) only accounted for 18.8% of hate crimes, a much smaller percentage. Simple assault is usually a misdemeanor, a minor offense. Aggravated assault is usually a felony, a serious offense.

If you factor in hate crimes against property in addition to people, non-violent crimes (ethnic intimidation) against people still make up 29.5% of incidents, again a much larger percentage than violent hate crimes.

Of the 9,168 reported hate crime offenses in 2008:

32.4 percent were destruction/damage/vandalism.
29.5 percent were intimidation.
19.4 percent were simple assault.
11.2 percent were aggravated assault.
7.5 percent were comprised of additional crimes against persons, property, and society. (Based on Table 2.)


Throwing a banana at a white hockey player and a black hockey player mean two totally different things. That is why hate crime laws were passed in some states to provide greater deterrent for crimes involving racial intimidation.

If people think its funny to make racially incendiary jokes its a statement of their ignorance.

It became a legal debate when posters tried to say hate crime was an inappropriate term to describe what happened. What happened is a hate crime in many places because hate crimes overwhelmingly don't involve beatings, murders, or other felonious violent crimes that already carry harsh penalties in most jurisdictions. Anybody that didn't already understand that was mistaken.
Draftnik
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,011
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:52 pm
Location: Peters Twp.

Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby Puffymuffin on Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:19 am

Rocco wrote:Throwing bananas at a black player? Who do these guys think they are, European?

:thumbdown:
Puffymuffin
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,358
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:33 pm

Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby Physical_Graffiti on Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:37 am

Rocco wrote:Throwing bananas at a black player? Who do these guys think they are, European?

:lol:
Physical_Graffiti
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 8,027
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:47 pm
Location: Hamilton

Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby Physical_Graffiti on Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:47 am

doublem wrote:The guy may have been a Detroit fan according to Twitter.

There are many of those in this area, though. I'd probably rank Detroit as third or fourth in terms of the amount of fans they have: Toronto, Montreal, Detroit, Boston ( higher if you only take people who were alive for Bobb Orr's career into account).
Physical_Graffiti
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 8,027
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:47 pm
Location: Hamilton

Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby littlemoonboot on Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:25 am

Rocco wrote:Throwing bananas at a black player? Who do these guys think they are, European?


Sounds like something a Habs fan would do to Subban if he had a bad game, if anything.
littlemoonboot
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,511
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:04 pm
Location: @burgyhockey

Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby Mr. Colby on Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:00 pm

This just in, Turbo was the one that threw the banana
Mr. Colby
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 8,843
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:33 pm
Location: Born and Raised in Kent Manderville

Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby Rocco on Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:09 pm

Puffymuffin wrote:
Rocco wrote:Throwing bananas at a black player? Who do these guys think they are, European?

:thumbdown:


I wouldn't have a joke to make if England could play a match on the continent without fans making monkey chants at their black players.
Rocco
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 36,335
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:34 am
Location: Manor Farm

Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby DocEmrick on Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:02 pm

Well...it was just a banana. I still think it was intended as a racial thing, but I would have been more alarmed and offended at watermelon or fried chicken being tossed though.
DocEmrick
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,641
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:33 pm
Location: 39°6′32″N 76°46′17″W

Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby llipgh2 on Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:14 pm

DocEmrick wrote:Well...it was just a banana. I still think it was intended as a racial thing, but I would have been more alarmed and offended at watermelon or fried chicken being tossed though.


I don't know...banana implies monkey or ape, which implies less than human. I think all three are equally offensive.
llipgh2
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 10,925
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:29 pm
Location: Gasp! The Clamboni!

Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby Rocco on Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:42 pm

DocEmrick wrote:Well...it was just a banana. I still think it was intended as a racial thing, but I would have been more alarmed and offended at watermelon or fried chicken being tossed though.


I'm not sure the last two would have the same connotation in Canada as they do in the US. Throwing a banana is pretty despicable.
Rocco
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 36,335
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:34 am
Location: Manor Farm

Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby npv708 on Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:45 pm

Maybe the fan just thought he was low on potassium.
npv708
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 22,784
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:11 pm
Location: Washington, DC

Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby JS© on Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:01 pm

DocEmrick wrote:Well...it was just a banana. I still think it was intended as a racial thing, but I would have been more alarmed and offended at watermelon or fried chicken being tossed though.


Ever try to sneak a watermelon into a game?
JS©
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 20,806
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:52 am
Location: hooray for me

Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby Gaucho on Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:18 pm

Rocco wrote:Throwing a banana is pretty despicable.


Yes. Everywhere.
Gaucho
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 42,215
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:22 am
Location: The Onyx Club

Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby cma3585 on Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:34 pm

cma3585
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,542
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:17 pm
Location: Chippewa

Re: Banana Thrown at Wayne Simmonds

Postby columbia on Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:37 pm

It's a competition?
columbia
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 48,492
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:13 am
Location: If you don't have a seat at the table, you're probably on the menu.

PreviousNext

Return to NPR

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: DudeMan2766 and 1 guest


e-mail