Monsters I Dead Thread

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Re: Monsters I Dead Thread

Postby columbia on Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:55 am

thehockeyguru wrote:But I do think the role claim was necessary given his stance on the IE vote. I am interested in hearing what made everyone vote Canaan after the IE vote and my ensuing vote on Ulf? No trust?


Again....there wasn't much of an "everyone" who voted against canaan:

EPP, Columbia and Redwill.
It was a bad vote for two of us, but - by then - the village was already fading away.
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Re: Monsters I Dead Thread

Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:57 am

THG, I can appreciate that it would have been an obvious move to follow the seer. But before you came out, we didn't know you were the seer. We just knew that IE had been RED and that you had started that vote. My "facts" at that point were that your stated premise that IE had declined the Sheriff role because she was a RED had been correct (of course we now know that logic was wrong) - I had not a clue (again this is before you came out) that there even was a seer, let alone that it was you.

Now on the second day I didn't want to follow your ulf vote for fear of being perceived as blindly just following whatever you did. I thought ulf was a good choice, but there was no "logic" to support it ( again this was before you declared the seers role). I voted against Canaan using the logic I *did* have, logic which seemed almost "iron clad" to me at the time. ( i still want to hear Canaan answer my questions above) knowing I could always change my vote later. then I went out hiking.

Unfortunately, by the time I came back you'd run out of patience and role declared.

I wish you'd have had the patience to let at least another day go by before declaring. I probably would have fallen in behind you after I saw how wrong I was on my Canaan vote. Your point of having been right on IE and recommendation that I follow that lead did not go entirely unnoticed. I probably would have voted ulf with you on day three and when that was right, I would have thrown my vote behind you until you were killed.

Anyway, I still don't get why Canaan would vote against me during the day and then claim to have saved me that very night, (and why save me? I was just a "no role villager" who was a relative newbie to Warz, it still doesn't make sense to me and is the primary reason I was convinced he was a Lying and was definitely a RED.
Last edited by ExPatriatePen on Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Monsters I Dead Thread

Postby thehockeyguru on Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:25 am

Of course you didn't know I was the seer, nobody knew. But it had to cross your mind after picking out IE on Day 1 that I might actually know what I'm doing. I have never been in a game where there hasn't been a Green Seer. Again, the goal of any seer is to present the information to the village in such a way that it gets the village to vote for a Red, without revealing that you are the seer so you dont die and can continue to help the village. To me it appears that you thought me getting IE on day 1 was blind luck.

Who is going to argue with you blindly following someone on Day 2 after that person just outed a Red? There was plenty of logic to support it, I flat out said that from the way Ulf acted on the IE vote that he was Red. Again, I may have been asking too much of newer player to pick up on my subtle hints. Redwill, who is probably one of the best players in the game, picked up on Ulf as well and ended up joining the reds through his investigation.

Man you forget quickly! On Day 3 I again voted for Ulf after you had led the village to kill Canaan. You exact quote after killing Canaan was:

ExPatriatePen wrote:I gotta hear some reasoning... I can't just work off of blind loyalty because he was spot on the first time.


You ended up voting with me after Redwill did, and the others followed. But what caused me to role claim was Ulf claiming to be the Green Seer. That Day phase we HAD to kill Ulf and the only way to was for me to come out.
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Re: Monsters I Dead Thread

Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:30 am

THG, what are the odds that the seer "see's" a RED on day I?

I still think my suspicion of Canaans story outweighed the odds that the seer scored on the first night.

But that's just me I guess.

I don't think you had to come out to have ulf killed on day three. At that point I think sentiment among the village was behind you.
Last edited by ExPatriatePen on Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Monsters I Dead Thread

Postby thehockeyguru on Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:30 am

Canaan can better explain his actions, but to me he knew that he messed up in saying that IE wasn't Red. He very well could have thought that your quick vote on her meant that you were Green. He needed a way to come across as Green in order to buy a little extra time.
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Re: Monsters I Dead Thread

Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:36 am

THG, Canaans miscalculation on IE isn't the point.

Canaan voted against me on day one, and then he claimed to have protected me that very night.

If you hadn't been the seer, that would have seemed pretty suspicious to you too.

Think about it, if you can, without the special knowledge you had as the seer, just as an average villager.
Last edited by ExPatriatePen on Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Monsters I Dead Thread

Postby thehockeyguru on Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:38 am

ExPatriatePen wrote:THG, what are the odds that the seer "see's" a RED on day I?

I still think my suspicion of Canaans story outweighed the odds that the seer scored on the first night.

But that's just me I guess.



Typically not very good since there is no discussion prior to the Seer's first investigation. But in this case, there were 14 players and 4 Reds. Since I could eliminate myself I had a 31% chance of finding a Red with no prior information. Given the information I was able gather during the vote I eliminated 6 additional players. So my hunch on IE aside I think I had a 4/7 chance or 57% chance of finding a Red.
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Re: Monsters I Dead Thread

Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:40 am

thehockeyguru wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:Given the information I was able gather during the vote I eliminated 6 additional players. So my hunch on IE aside I think I had a 4/7 chance or 57% chance of finding a Red.


Huh? What six? What information?
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Re: Monsters I Dead Thread

Postby thehockeyguru on Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:42 am

ExPatriatePen wrote:THG, that's not the point.

Canaan voted against me on day one, and then he claimed to have protected me that very night.

If you hadn't been the seer, that would have seemed pretty suspicious to you too.

Think about it, if you can, without the special knowledge you had as the seer, just as an average villager.



What you have to remember is that Canaan had no idea that you were going to be the target that evening. That fact that he voted for you and saved you has NO bearing. What he saw was you vote quickly on IE and the Red attempt to kill you. He had to believe that you could be a Green RP and needed to protect you.
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Re: Monsters I Dead Thread

Postby thehockeyguru on Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:47 am

ExPatriatePen wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:Given the information I was able gather during the vote I eliminated 6 additional players. So my hunch on IE aside I think I had a 4/7 chance or 57% chance of finding a Red.


Huh? What six? What information?


When we had the nomination and debate regarding who was to be Sheriff I eliminated 6 people who I didn't think were Red given the information (their comments and how they acted) at hand. So I assumed that I had a 4/7 chance of finding a Red.
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Re: Monsters I Dead Thread

Postby canaan on Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:51 am

thehockeyguru wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:THG, that's not the point.

Canaan voted against me on day one, and then he claimed to have protected me that very night.

If you hadn't been the seer, that would have seemed pretty suspicious to you too.

Think about it, if you can, without the special knowledge you had as the seer, just as an average villager.



What you have to remember is that Canaan had no idea that you were going to be the target that evening. That fact that he voted for you and saved you has NO bearing. What he saw was you vote quickly on IE and the Red attempt to kill you. He had to believe that you could be a Green RP and needed to protect you.

i honestly thought he was just a regular villager. I was overwhelmed by the sense that epp was going to lead a charge to kill me based on my defending IE. When EPP got targeted, i weighed out the chances of a vig kill or a red kill to frame me. either way, i felt my lifespan in the game was rather short. i played it pretty terribly, but at the time, i felt it was the best course of actions seeing that i a.) didnt have any protects left, and b.) i wasnt going to blindly shoot somebody with my one kill. I was kind of hoping that the information gained from those spearheading my demise would be looked at with more scrutiny, but the lack of participation nullified the idea.
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Re: Monsters I Dead Thread

Postby columbia on Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:54 am

canaan wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:THG, that's not the point.

Canaan voted against me on day one, and then he claimed to have protected me that very night.

If you hadn't been the seer, that would have seemed pretty suspicious to you too.

Think about it, if you can, without the special knowledge you had as the seer, just as an average villager.



What you have to remember is that Canaan had no idea that you were going to be the target that evening. That fact that he voted for you and saved you has NO bearing. What he saw was you vote quickly on IE and the Red attempt to kill you. He had to believe that you could be a Green RP and needed to protect you.

i honestly thought he was just a regular villager. I was overwhelmed by the sense that epp was going to lead a charge to kill me based on my defending IE. When EPP got targeted, i weighed out the chances of a vig kill or a red kill to frame me. either way, i felt my lifespan in the game was rather short. i played it pretty terribly, but at the time, i felt it was the best course of actions seeing that i a.) didnt have any protects left, and b.) i wasnt going to blindly shoot somebody with my one kill. I was kind of hoping that the information gained from those spearheading my demise would be looked at with more scrutiny, but the lack of participation nullified the idea.


Sorry for voting against you, canaan. :pop:
With only 3 votes on you, the village would have killed either EPP or me; assuming they would leave Redwill alone as sheriff for a while.

Weird game.
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Re: Monsters I Dead Thread

Postby redwill on Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:43 am

Wow. I didn't even know this discussion was going on in this thread. Great stuff. Seriously. I have hope for warz.
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Re: Monsters I Dead Thread

Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:44 pm

Canaan wrote:I was overwhelmed by the sense that epp was going to lead a charge to kill me based on my defending IE.


At the risk of sounding like a broken record, your defense of IE was only a minor part of my reasoning.

The biggest reasons were that you said you were told I was to be killed, and after that you were still weighing the logic to determine if I were RED or GREEN. Also, your vote to eliminate me during the day, and yet you turned right around and saved me the same night. It seemed like such inconsistent play and my respect for you was strong enough that I couldn't believe you'd make a play like that as a Green/Blue.

As for the game. The final nail in the coffin (for the village) came on the last night. Rel was obviously the RED and by NAN's own admission, he just randomly cast his vote against me without really reading through the thread.

I enjoyed the game and the logic different players use, as well as the weight they put on different aspects.

I wish I'd have found Warz when you all first started playing.

I am putting together a Rock n Roll Warz game, It will have automatic death for players who remain silent or don't participate for a given period of time. Still, I'm thinking I should wait a week or two before starting it.
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Re: Monsters I Dead Thread

Postby columbia on Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:44 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:Still, I'm thinking I should wait a week or two before starting it.


Maybe more than that. :o
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Re: Monsters I Dead Thread

Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:47 pm

columbia wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:Still, I'm thinking I should wait a week or two before starting it.


Maybe more than that. :o


Yeah, maybe after the Pens win the cup. ;)
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Re: Monsters I Dead Thread

Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:49 pm

From Jagger Bush Run, you take the road about ten miles and you reach:

Image

I passed this in Southern Utah the day that I was sure Canaan was a RED. :)
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