2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby FanofUlf on Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:34 pm

Well, the TV repair was over today and the verdict is in.

The LCD panel went out. It will cost 400-600 dollars to fix, better off leaving it alone. May last one more year before going.
This is not a Samsung problem. Rather it happens to all brands, as the panels are usually built by the same manufacturer. Also the technology has been around 10 years, CRT and Plasma's have been around much longer.
LED TV's are somewhat better, but still can have it happen and it costs much more.

Advice is o and get a plasma, you can get a good brand, with 600 Hz not 120 or 240 Hz, 50 inch for 400-600. Plasma's are cheaper because they were overpriced at first, LCD's came out, became more popular, and now have the market so Plasma's are trying to get back share. Look at Best Buy and HHGreg but also Wal-Mart, Costco, BJ's, and Sam's Club. Their service plans are cheaper and longer. Get a long extended warranty.


Wanted to ask if you folks agree with the Plasma statement? I deliberately avoided Plasma's three years ago due to price and mainly the reviews made me cautious as they might blow up. Do you feel Plasma's are the way to go?
Frankly I don't ever want to spend 1200 again, buy a Samsung again, or even a LCD after this.
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby mac5155 on Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:36 pm

It depends on the situation. I have a 51" Samsung Plasma that I absolutely love. It's in a room with no ambient light and I still get some reflection when it comes to darker scenes on the TV.
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby FanofUlf on Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:49 pm

ambient light? Look I want a nice picture and TV which will last a long time.
My TV now is in the family room, which has two deck doors that have blinds.

Before it was in a family room with two large windows that had blinds. Will that work?
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby pittsoccer33 on Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:56 pm

Its unfortunate but it happens. Like I said before, that panel was likely made in a joint factory with Sony. If it wasn't made there it was probably made by Sharp.

Any tv can go bad. Any of them. I can say from my anecdotal experience (that I think I posted somewhere earlier in this thread) that I saw plasma's have a larger percentage of problems on our store shelves than lcd based sets.

What that tells me is that they would have a larger likely hood of going bad in the first year of ownership, but the 100 or so tv's on our floor is not a great sample size.

Still, I'd say at close to 1/50 failed at some point, whether a power or panel problem. It's just the nature of mass produced electronics. If they hand built these things (like Bang and Olufsen does) you would be paying $5,000 for a 32" (which is what they charge - you need to go to Beverly Hills to see one in a store). It doesn't sting when its a $15 alarm clock or a $30 phone the way it does when its a $1000 television.

Plasma's offer the most bang for the buck. They are cheaper to manufacture because they have fewer parts.

600hz versus even 60hz can make a difference but not necessarily a perceivable one. Something that makes a huge difference between 60hz and 120hz is that nearly all 120hz tv's can auto detect the frame rate of the incoming video and match the refresh to it. Not all plasma's can do that. To me, outside of basic considerations like size, is the most important thing to look for in a new television.

For years the best tv models every year were Pioneer and then Panasonic (VT) plasmas. They boast the deepest blacks, most accurate colors, and most fluid motion. This year the Sony HX and the Sharp/Pioneer Elite LEDs got to the same level of black. They are also much more money than the comparable plasma.

The new stuff is just coming out right as we speak. It's unfortunate that you had this happen because I would almost definitely recommend a Samsung UN-46EH6000 LED. These things are literally coming onto store shelves right now.

In terms of a 50" plasma for 400-600, yes they do exist, but thats going to be lower end. A 50" Zenith or Sanyo most likely (the off brands of LG and Panasonic, respectively). Samsung puts their own name on their low end stuff, but usually only sell it around Thanksgiving-Christmas.

I'm still getting familiar with all the new incoming model numbers (many of these things won't be on store shelves for another month or two) but they don't tend to change all that much year to year (the letters in the model number are usually sequential)

Samsung
8000
7000
6800
6500
550
530

Panasonic
VT
GT
ST
S

LG
950
750
450

If I remember correctly, LG warrants their panel for 2 years on plasma sets (don't quote me on that) and they boast the lowest failure rate in the industry.

For mainline LED model numbers (which are mostly replaceing LCD in the 46" size) for for these series:

Sony
HX
NX <--- I think they're scrapping this one this year)
EX
BX

Samsung
8000
7000
6000
600

LG (no idea what their model numbering will be this year)

Sharp (not sure if these will stand)
830
630

I should be able to revise and put something better together in the next 6 weeks for all the 2012 models.
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby FanofUlf on Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:05 pm

Pit, so what do you recommend?
I just can't see buying a Samsung of spending 1200 again (I can't afford it).
Will a Plasma suffice given it will be under warranty?
I just can't spend 1200 again, and I disagree with "it happens". Baloney, my CRT TV from 1990 lasted 20 years. Mass produced electronics with 21st century top of the line 1000 dollar price tags DO NOT just fail, nor should it be implied this a non-chalent, easy going, live and let die situation. No offense, but I resent that. We are not "gambling" we are buying an expensive product whose pre-decessors cost 1/6 and didn't have these problems 20 years.

How a market goes from being cheap, long lasting, to as you made it sound, expensive and "oh well, it happens" is absurd. No offense man.

Oh, and I saw 46 inch Samsung for 600 as a Plasma. The TV Repair said you can get 46+ Samsung or LG good model Plasma's in the 400-600 price range. Not just a cheap Vizio.
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby skullman80 on Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:12 pm

My Panasonic Plasma is much more reflective of light than my old LCD was, but I knew that going in. I tend to keep my living room dark most of the time anyways, but it is something to take into consideration, if your room is going to have tons of light all the time, its going to be more of an issue with a Plasma than on a LCD.

Also my old LCD thats now in my bedroom is a Vizio, and I can't knock them. That thing properly calibrated held up to most other TV's that were twice it's price when I got it(4 years ago or so), it still has a damn good picture, but obviously not as good as my newer Panasonic.
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby pittsoccer33 on Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:20 pm

FanofUlf wrote:I just can't spend 1200 again, and I disagree with "it happens". Baloney, my CRT TV from 1990 lasted 20 years. Mass produced electronics with 21st century top of the line 1000 dollar price tags DO NOT just fail, nor should it be implied this a non-chalent, easy going, live and let die situation.


I don't mean to be casual or callous to the fact, but this is the reality. This is what is considered acceptable now, if not by you then by the manufacturers. They are creating tv's the way computers are created - with a 3-6 year planned obsolescence period. Your only defense is to buy an extended service plan or to accept that you will be replacing a tv much more frequently than your parents did. If they thought they would last more than one year (or cared that they did) then the warranty would be for longer than one year.

They are not top of the line in terms of overall component quality - they are mass produced with mass produced components just like the cars, air conditioners, dishwashers, etc that have parts that go bad and need to be replaced. The problem is that this was the most expensive part that could go bad - liked a blown head gasket on a car would be.

A lady was buying a 60" $3000 tv off me one night and said "for $3000, it better last." Why would it stand any better chance of lasting than the $150 one? They are basically the same thing from a technological stand point. The more expensive one just has more computer chips and image processors to go bad in it.

You will find a larger and overall nicer plasma in the $600-$800 price range than you would an LCD. LG PV450, Samsung D530 and Panasonic S30. However, these are all last years model numbers and they are physically hard to find in stores. Walk into a Best Buy, Sears, or HH Gregg right now and you will think they are closing up shop. All the new stuff will be coming in the next 6 weeks or so.
Last edited by pittsoccer33 on Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby pittsoccer33 on Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:28 pm

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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby pittsoccer33 on Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:44 pm

I look at the entire thing a bit differently since this is a major hobby of mine, and also because I understand I will be getting much more for my money year after year. Also, these things are depreciating at a record rate. The prices people ask on craigslist for old tv's are way too high. Your equivalent tv brand new this year (the Samsung D630) was $600ish

I have a 50" Panasonic TC-P50S1 plasma. It's a 2009 model I was able to snag new in the box in January of 2011 for an amazing price. But if it died I'd have the excuse I want to replace it. Why is that?

-No film mode
-Had the infamous "rising black" of 2009 Panasonics (look it up if you have and S1 or G10) - have counteracted it to an extent with some tips I found on avs
-No reflective coating
-Does not do 3D (every bluray I've bought since last summer was a 3D bluray and the olympics are coming up)
-No internet/server connectivity

I'm saving for a projector set up, so another tv is not really on the radar as much as I want it. Still, I had to talk myself out of buying a Sony 55" NX720 every day I worked.
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby pittsoccer33 on Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:48 pm

Also, without knowing the total financial picture, take advantage of No Interest financing at stores. Best Buy has to have the most consistently good financing deals. Sears bounce around a lot, and HH Gregg makes you jump through hoops for rebates (though if you like negotiating...). Amazon also has 2 year financing deals often.

Sears also has a 48 month secured term loan with a 12% interest rate, much better than most peoples credit cards.
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby FanofUlf on Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:00 pm

Ohhh I have some very strong opinions, but in the interest of time I will get back to Pitsoccers comments later.

My only update is I found out my extended warranty through BestBuy was for FOUR years, so I will get a repair man over for free on Saturday.
Moral: BUY THE EXTENDED WARRANTY FOR MANY YEARS!

Comments on Pitsoccer to follow later.
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby pittsoccer33 on Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:04 pm

i am glad to hear that working out for you. i would try very hard to insist to a best buy manager to replace your tv with a brand new one immediately, either from the 630 series or 6000 series.
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby FanofUlf on Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:26 am

pittsoccer33 wrote:i am glad to hear that working out for you. i would try very hard to insist to a best buy manager to replace your tv with a brand new one immediately, either from the 630 series or 6000 series.

The repair man is coming between 12 and 4 tomorrow, so what do I do?
Cancel? Call and talk to best buy?
Why should it be replaced?
If he comes, just decline service?
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby pittsoccer33 on Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:48 am

no dont do any of that. from my experience ive heard of people getting brand new units by going directly to management. squeaky wheel gets the grease.

doubtful they bring the part they need on the first trip. if they dont ask them if its really worth it to repair of if you should have it replaced
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby FanofUlf on Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:24 pm

They are coming between 1 and 3. So what should I do; tell repair service to cancel?

What do I do if they bring everything and fix it; will I have lost my shot at a new TV?
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby Letang Is The Truth on Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:03 pm

Don't know if Sony pictures uses different cameras but all of my sony blu rays look a lot different on my new LED tv
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby FanofUlf on Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:06 pm

pittsoccer, would it be easier to do this here or PM/email?

The repair service just left. He thinks indeed this looks like it is the LCD panel. As you said, he did not have the part and is unsure if the part is available. He did just order it and will see.

OK, I'd rather have a new TV so since I am awaiting word, what do I do? This is through geek squad at BestBuy so unsure if I go to the store manager of Best Buy, or call/see GeekSquad.
Let me know what you think.

Further, I don't have my GeekSquad contract, just the receipt, which was fine. Should I ask for a copy of my contract (I don't think I got one).

If I get a new TV, do I have to get the same brand and size or can I get a larger one from another company?
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby pittsoccer33 on Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:11 pm

Letang Is The Truth wrote:Don't know if Sony pictures uses different cameras but all of my sony blu rays look a lot different on my new LED tv


i scoured the net for an article explaining this but i cant find it. if i remember it all correctly sony/columbia pictures has been known to make higher quality film to digital transfers. they use higher bitrates which basically means there is more image data per second. the more data the more detail. warner is known for the exact opposite.

when dvd was king sony/columbia superbit collection dvds were usually the best looking. they didnt put any extras on the disc and used all available space to create the highest bitrate encode.
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby FanofUlf on Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:32 pm

UPDATE:

Geek Squad is allowing me to exchange my 40 inch TV. I am hoping this 1200 40 inch LCD I can swap into a 46 or 52 inch LED.
I wonder if they will charge me up the wazoo, given my 40 inch LCD then was 1200 and now a 46 or 52 inch LED is 1200?
They told me the warranty will be last for the duration (until December) if I want another 4 years I have to buy it again.
Wish that also could be negotiated.

They are taking my old TV, which I wanted to keep and move upstairs. Anyway I can negotiate it?



MORAL: These new TVs are built with so many new sophisticated parts, more things can break, it is more expensive today. TVs are built to sell with flashy pictures, not to last, this way it generates more future sales.
BUY BUY BUY extended warranty.
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby mac5155 on Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:02 pm

You want to swap a TV that you can buy now for about $500 for one that costs about $1500 and you want to keep your broken one? lolol
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby pittsoccer33 on Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:06 pm

I sent a PM with some of the new models. I'll probably update the thread in a few weeks after all the new stuff is out and I am familiar with their pluses and minuses.

The Samsung EH6000 models are the ones you will probably be most interested in. Going up the line they start with a "dumb" model with no apps, going up to 3D and wifi built in web browsing.
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby FanofUlf on Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:58 am

Wow, feeling overwhelmed.
2008 I knew get: 1080P and 120HZ.
Since I am buying a new TV, um, what features should I demand?

Plasma or LCD, LED, 3d?
120/240HZ?
And what's this about "smart" TVs? Cheat cheat sheet please on what to get!
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby Physical_Graffiti on Sat Mar 17, 2012 1:04 am

Don't buy plasma.
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby the wicked child on Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:03 pm

Alright, so I'm going to look into getting one of these new fangled tvs so I can truly enjoy my blurays and PS3. Most of the use will be for the aforementioned + watching sports.

Would like to keep it around $800 or so. Just looking for some guidance in what I should look for. I am willing to go up a little on the price if it is truly worth it... but I can't afford to drop $2k on a tv either.
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Re: 2011 Official LGP HDTV Buying Guide

Postby bhaw on Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:17 pm

TWC... I have one I can be negotiable on.

Image

$800 can get you a really nice 42" or a 46" with less features. I was shopping in that range as well and came to that conclusion.
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