Official GDT: Game 2 - Penguins vs. Flyers - 4/13/2012

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Re: Official GDT: Game 2 - Penguins vs. Flyers - 4/13/2012

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:51 pm

Guinness wrote:If PGH were down 0-2 in the Eastern Conference Finals right now, would everyone be freaking out, calling for Bylsma's, Shero's and (yes, even) Crosby's and Malkin's heads right now? Nope.

This IS the Eastern Conference Finals. It just happens to be being played in the first round, thanks to the seeding rules.

Philly is a helluva team, and it's no real embarrassment to be down to them, quite frankly. It would be an embarrassment to be down against Ottawa, Washington, or Florida; but they're playing the one team in the East that actually has a chance to beat them.

Calm down. I sure hope it's not as freaked out in the lockerroom as it is here.


I disagree. The Pens have been exposed. Maybe in an alternate universe they survive a round but even the Rangers amped it up for the playoffs.
Pens d and depth is horendous.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 2 - Penguins vs. Flyers - 4/13/2012

Postby Rocco on Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:52 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
Tico Rick wrote:This team was built for the new NHL. The problem is that the new NHL is turning into the old NHL.


Yeah, thats why Kunitz, Malkin, and Neal were -5, -4, and -4 respectively.


Kunitz at least scored. Malkin is floating. Neal is a scared bunny. Neal had an open net that would have tied it. Was it easy? No, but you'd hope a guy who had a breakout year would find a way to push that puck 3 inches to the right.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 2 - Penguins vs. Flyers - 4/13/2012

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:53 pm

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
Guinness wrote:If PGH were down 0-2 in the Eastern Conference Finals right now, would everyone be freaking out, calling for Bylsma's, Shero's and (yes, even) Crosby's and Malkin's heads right now? Nope.

This IS the Eastern Conference Finals. It just happens to be being played in the first round, thanks to the seeding rules.

Philly is a helluva team, and it's no real embarrassment to be down to them, quite frankly. It would be an embarrassment to be down against Ottawa, Washington, or Florida; but they're playing the one team in the East that actually has a chance to beat them.

Calm down. I sure hope it's not as freaked out in the lockerroom as it is here.


I disagree. The Pens have been exposed. Maybe in an alternate universe they survive a round but even the Rangers amped it up for the playoffs.
Pens d and depth is horendous.


Shero should be ashamed having Engellend and Lovejoy as the 3rd pairing.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 2 - Penguins vs. Flyers - 4/13/2012

Postby Guinness on Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:53 pm

Eismann wrote:This game was lost on d-zone coverage. True, Flyers put good press on, but my goodness, there's just no muscle from the Pens to push out the box presence.


I agree with this. I don't have anything in particular against Martin nor Michalek, but combined, there's just not guts.

I think they're both good defensemen, but I think at the end of the day you need a little more grit back there.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 2 - Penguins vs. Flyers - 4/13/2012

Postby brwi on Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:53 pm

Henry Hank wrote:I also hate to say it, but these Pens are Capitals-esque. They lost their edge after the Cup win. They don't do the little things you need to do to win. Sure, they've got a lot of talent, and sure, they can score. But they just don't have the hunger they used to have. Sad but true.


:thumb: Everything else I edited out was also very true, but your last point hit the bullseye. This team has a chemistry problem in that they have lost the hunger and are too accepting of less than 100% efforts. Right now, the Flyers are simply the hungrier team and they also are playing like the more mature team even though they aren't. That last part comes down to coaching and DB is looking like he may not have an answer and is getting tuned-out like MT did in his final days.

When the Pens won the cup, they had the right mix of MT's defensive awareness to go along with DB's uptempo style. Since then, they no longer want to the dirty work of playing solid team D and instead just run and gun it. That's not going to work and it hasn't been working before now either when it comes to the playoffs.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 2 - Penguins vs. Flyers - 4/13/2012

Postby wondermoose on Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:53 pm

Henry Hank wrote:
wondermoose wrote:At this point, I would gladly put Depres in over Martin. Dude is just a wreck out there.


And continue to play Lovejoy?

The call-ups aren't the answer. Strait was a liability in the last few games of the season and Despres is likely to get exposed too. I like the job Shero has done, but I'll echo what others have said. He blew it by not getting a D at the deadline. And isn't it funny that Philly picked up two solid D in Grossman and Kubina. They went for it. Shero didn't. The Pens D depth is garbage after the top six. You can put guys like Lovejoy and Strait or whoever in during the regular season and get by just fine, especially when you're scoring a lot of goals. Teams hone in on those weaknesses in the playoffs. Lovejoy got victimized on goals five and six against. He got victimized in the playoffs last year. Hopefully next year Shero pulls the trigger on deadline deals to shore up the D. They can't go into the playoffs again next year with AHL scrubs as their depth.


The only defenseman I wanted at the deadline was Hal Gill. I think it was a huuuuuuge mistake Shero let the USS Hal Gill fly another team's colors when he ought to be patrolling the Pens' water.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 2 - Penguins vs. Flyers - 4/13/2012

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:54 pm

Rocco wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
Tico Rick wrote:This team was built for the new NHL. The problem is that the new NHL is turning into the old NHL.


Yeah, thats why Kunitz, Malkin, and Neal were -5, -4, and -4 respectively.


Kunitz at least scored. Malkin is floating. Neal is a scared bunny. Neal had an open net that would have tied it. Was it easy? No, but you'd hope a guy who had a breakout year would find a way to push that puck 3 inches to the right.


IMO this game turned when Bryz made that save on Letang. Got the feeling right there that is wasn't going to fall our way.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 2 - Penguins vs. Flyers - 4/13/2012

Postby pens_CT on Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:54 pm

Henry Hank wrote:
bab81 wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:
wondermoose wrote:At this point, I would gladly put Depres in over Martin. Dude is just a wreck out there.


And continue to play Lovejoy?

The call-ups aren't the answer. Strait was a liability in the last few games of the season and Despres is likely to get exposed too. I like the job Shero has done, but I'll echo what others have said. He blew it by not getting a D at the deadline. And isn't it funny that Philly picked up two solid D in Grossman and Kubina. They went for it. Shero didn't. The Pens D depth is garbage after the top six. You can put guys like Lovejoy and Strait or whoever in during the regular season and get by just fine, especially when you're scoring a lot of goals. Teams hone in on those weaknesses in the playoffs. Lovejoy got victimized on goals five and six against. He got victimized in the playoffs last year. Hopefully next year Shero pulls the trigger on deadline deals to shore up the D. They can't go into the playoffs again next year with AHL scrubs as their depth.


What others are you talking about? I got laughed off the board for saying it was worth way overpaying to go after a defenseman at the deadline. To think what this series could look like if we had a solid veteran defenseman and a guy who gives a **** and can stand in front of the net.


How about the guys Philly got? All it took were draft picks. The Pens have all of their picks plus Columbus' fourth. I know that the Pens had some cap limitations but they surely could have moved some guys around to create room. Philly does that masterfully.

I don't want to harp on that too much though because it's unlikely that one player makes that big a difference. This is a team issue. This is a style and mentality problem. The Pens can't play with a lead. They have one way that they play and they stick with it no matter what. Philly is a dynamic team, they can come at you aggressively but they can also shut down and protect a lead if they have to. That was so evident tonight. That's why they're a better team.

Basic problem is that Shero's two UFA signings on D last year skillset doesn't match HCDB style of play. Both of them would be much better players on their former teams who play D first.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 2 - Penguins vs. Flyers - 4/13/2012

Postby Guinness on Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:54 pm

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
Guinness wrote:If PGH were down 0-2 in the Eastern Conference Finals right now, would everyone be freaking out, calling for Bylsma's, Shero's and (yes, even) Crosby's and Malkin's heads right now? Nope.

This IS the Eastern Conference Finals. It just happens to be being played in the first round, thanks to the seeding rules.

Philly is a helluva team, and it's no real embarrassment to be down to them, quite frankly. It would be an embarrassment to be down against Ottawa, Washington, or Florida; but they're playing the one team in the East that actually has a chance to beat them.

Calm down. I sure hope it's not as freaked out in the lockerroom as it is here.


I disagree. The Pens have been exposed. Maybe in an alternate universe they survive a round but even the Rangers amped it up for the playoffs.
Pens d and depth is horendous.


Pens are up 2-0 against the Rangers right now. Philly is a bad first round matchup. People need to start thinking of this as the ECF in order to keep things in perspective.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 2 - Penguins vs. Flyers - 4/13/2012

Postby KG on Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:55 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
Guinness wrote:If PGH were down 0-2 in the Eastern Conference Finals right now, would everyone be freaking out, calling for Bylsma's, Shero's and (yes, even) Crosby's and Malkin's heads right now? Nope.

This IS the Eastern Conference Finals. It just happens to be being played in the first round, thanks to the seeding rules.

Philly is a helluva team, and it's no real embarrassment to be down to them, quite frankly. It would be an embarrassment to be down against Ottawa, Washington, or Florida; but they're playing the one team in the East that actually has a chance to beat them.

Calm down. I sure hope it's not as freaked out in the lockerroom as it is here.


I disagree. The Pens have been exposed. Maybe in an alternate universe they survive a round but even the Rangers amped it up for the playoffs.
Pens d and depth is horendous.


Shero should be ashamed having Engellend and Lovejoy as the 3rd pairing.


The Engelland/Lovejoy (Niskanen) tandem should not be a big negative because Michalek and Martin are supposed to be legitmate top 3 d men. The pens were supposed to be set up for many years with Letang/Orpik/Martin/Michalek....for some reason it has not worked out for the 2 free agent signings......
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Re: Official GDT: Game 2 - Penguins vs. Flyers - 4/13/2012

Postby Tico Rick on Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:56 pm

Guinness is calming me down. If Staal's shot goes in instead of hitting the post in Game 1, we win Game 1. If Neal gets just a little more on his shot at the end tonight, it doesn't roll wide and we tie it up, despite making a lot of boneheaded plays. Hopefully the hockey gods are just gods and will make this a seven-game series.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 2 - Penguins vs. Flyers - 4/13/2012

Postby bab81 on Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:56 pm

I love hearing everyone bash Shero for his bottom defensive pair. Literally everyone on this board save for a few of us said they were happy we didnt overpay. This is what you get; If you dont want to roll the dice you're going to go into the playoffs with ******* lovejoy as your top 6
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Re: Official GDT: Game 2 - Penguins vs. Flyers - 4/13/2012

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:56 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
Guinness wrote:If PGH were down 0-2 in the Eastern Conference Finals right now, would everyone be freaking out, calling for Bylsma's, Shero's and (yes, even) Crosby's and Malkin's heads right now? Nope.

This IS the Eastern Conference Finals. It just happens to be being played in the first round, thanks to the seeding rules.

Philly is a helluva team, and it's no real embarrassment to be down to them, quite frankly. It would be an embarrassment to be down against Ottawa, Washington, or Florida; but they're playing the one team in the East that actually has a chance to beat them.

Calm down. I sure hope it's not as freaked out in the lockerroom as it is here.


I disagree. The Pens have been exposed. Maybe in an alternate universe they survive a round but even the Rangers amped it up for the playoffs.
Pens d and depth is horendous.


Shero should be ashamed having Engellend and Lovejoy as the 3rd pairing.


Flyers missing 2 dmen and had depth to cover up. Pens should have tried the same thing, especially since their defense sucked to begin with.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 2 - Penguins vs. Flyers - 4/13/2012

Postby pens_CT on Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:57 pm

Guinness wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
Guinness wrote:If PGH were down 0-2 in the Eastern Conference Finals right now, would everyone be freaking out, calling for Bylsma's, Shero's and (yes, even) Crosby's and Malkin's heads right now? Nope.

This IS the Eastern Conference Finals. It just happens to be being played in the first round, thanks to the seeding rules.

Philly is a helluva team, and it's no real embarrassment to be down to them, quite frankly. It would be an embarrassment to be down against Ottawa, Washington, or Florida; but they're playing the one team in the East that actually has a chance to beat them.

Calm down. I sure hope it's not as freaked out in the lockerroom as it is here.


I disagree. The Pens have been exposed. Maybe in an alternate universe they survive a round but even the Rangers amped it up for the playoffs.
Pens d and depth is horendous.


Pens are up 2-0 against the Rangers right now. Philly is a bad first round matchup. People need to start thinking of this as the ECF in order to keep things in perspective.


I can't see how you can believe that. With this p*ss poor team defense the only team they would be up against would be Florida
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Re: Official GDT: Game 2 - Penguins vs. Flyers - 4/13/2012

Postby RxBandit66 on Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:57 pm

brwi wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:I also hate to say it, but these Pens are Capitals-esque. They lost their edge after the Cup win. They don't do the little things you need to do to win. Sure, they've got a lot of talent, and sure, they can score. But they just don't have the hunger they used to have. Sad but true.


:thumb: Everything else I edited out was also very true, but your last point hit the bullseye. This team has a chemistry problem in that they have lost the hunger and are too accepting of less than 100% efforts. Right now, the Flyers are simply the hungrier team and they also are playing like the more mature team even though they aren't. That last part comes down to coaching and DB is looking like he may not have an answer and is getting tuned-out like MT did in his final days.

When the Pens won the cup, they had the right mix of MT's defensive awareness to go along with DB's uptempo style. Since then, they no longer want to the dirty work of playing solid team D and instead just run and gun it. That's not going to work and it hasn't been working before now either when it comes to the playoffs.


FOrtunately, there is a lot of new fresh blood coming up on the blue line for the Pens. They have defensive prospects that will make an impact as early as next season. They will need to clear out some of the waste that is there now during the offseason.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 2 - Penguins vs. Flyers - 4/13/2012

Postby Kharlamov on Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:57 pm

I'm not sure how you could possibly take any positives from these two games? Two multi-goal leads blown in consecutive games, at home?

Oh wait, I thought of a positive...nope, lost it.
Last edited by Kharlamov on Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 2 - Penguins vs. Flyers - 4/13/2012

Postby Rocco on Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:58 pm

Tico Rick wrote:Guinness is calming me down. If Staal's shot goes in instead of hitting the post in Game 1, we win Game 1. If Neal gets just a little more on his shot at the end tonight, it doesn't roll wide and we tie it up, despite making a lot of boneheaded plays. Hopefully the hockey gods are just gods and will make this a seven-game series.


There's a saying about frogs and wings that applies here.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 2 - Penguins vs. Flyers - 4/13/2012

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:58 pm

Lovejoy will never be anything other than a 6/7 defenseman. Why not get Despres feet wet?
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Re: Official GDT: Game 2 - Penguins vs. Flyers - 4/13/2012

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:58 pm

Tico Rick wrote:Guinness is calming me down. If Staal's shot goes in instead of hitting the post in Game 1, we win Game 1. If Neal gets just a little more on his shot at the end tonight, it doesn't roll wide and we tie it up, despite making a lot of boneheaded plays. Hopefully the hockey gods are just gods and will make this a seven-game series.


The hockey gods have evened it out already by letting the team with defense, grinders and speed up front win.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 2 - Penguins vs. Flyers - 4/13/2012

Postby Guinness on Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:59 pm

Rocco wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
Tico Rick wrote:This team was built for the new NHL. The problem is that the new NHL is turning into the old NHL.


Yeah, thats why Kunitz, Malkin, and Neal were -5, -4, and -4 respectively.


Kunitz at least scored. Malkin is floating. Neal is a scared bunny. Neal had an open net that would have tied it. Was it easy? No, but you'd hope a guy who had a breakout year would find a way to push that puck 3 inches to the right.


Come on dude. Malkin is being double and triple covered. There is no room for anyone in the O-zone. Neal made a helluva play on that puck. It didn't go in. Meanwhile, he's been banging everything in sight. Calling him a scared bunny is just nonsense.

Philly is a good team. They're down 0-2 in the ECF. Put your big boy pants on and deal with it - there's still 2 losses to go before they're out. I hope the men in the lockerroom aren't pee-ing their pants, too.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 2 - Penguins vs. Flyers - 4/13/2012

Postby nocera on Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:59 pm

Rocco wrote:
Tico Rick wrote:Guinness is calming me down. If Staal's shot goes in instead of hitting the post in Game 1, we win Game 1. If Neal gets just a little more on his shot at the end tonight, it doesn't roll wide and we tie it up, despite making a lot of boneheaded plays. Hopefully the hockey gods are just gods and will make this a seven-game series.


There's a saying about frogs and wings that applies here.


That winged frogs would be awesome and terrifying?
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Re: Official GDT: Game 2 - Penguins vs. Flyers - 4/13/2012

Postby bhaw on Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:59 pm

Flyers in our zone was like watching a bad roller hockey mismatch. They are just circling our zone until a play develops. Their PP is cross ice passes until the net is open.

It looks like no one knows what their role in the D zone is. Guys are backing off guys with no one to pick that guy up. They are letting the Flyers skate around the back of the next then cut to the center with the puck before they even engage them. And, of course, the stick checks are like a small rookie CB trying to arm tackle Jerome Bettis in the open field (in his prime). They just skate through it. I don't know how better to describe it... it looks exactly how roller hockey teams play D when they are playing a better team. Just hope to stay between your guy and the goal and maybe it will work out.

My breaking point with DB will be if the Pens come out with a 4 forward PP in Philly. For me, giving up 2 shorties to blow a playoff game should be enough to show it doesn't work against the team they are playing. If that's not adjusted, I have no faith in our coaching.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 2 - Penguins vs. Flyers - 4/13/2012

Postby Tico Rick on Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:59 pm

Rocco wrote:
Tico Rick wrote:Guinness is calming me down. If Staal's shot goes in instead of hitting the post in Game 1, we win Game 1. If Neal gets just a little more on his shot at the end tonight, it doesn't roll wide and we tie it up, despite making a lot of boneheaded plays. Hopefully the hockey gods are just gods and will make this a seven-game series.


There's a saying about frogs and wings that applies here.


I'm just saying these two teams are extremely close in talent level. It's not the end of the world.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 2 - Penguins vs. Flyers - 4/13/2012

Postby pittsports87 on Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:59 pm

For anyone interested, Siri can help you out (stole this from someone on twitter):
Spoiler:
Image
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Re: Official GDT: Game 2 - Penguins vs. Flyers - 4/13/2012

Postby RxBandit66 on Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:01 pm

Tico Rick wrote:Guinness is calming me down. If Staal's shot goes in instead of hitting the post in Game 1, we win Game 1. If Neal gets just a little more on his shot at the end tonight, it doesn't roll wide and we tie it up, despite making a lot of boneheaded plays. Hopefully the hockey gods are just gods and will make this a seven-game series.


Well, as bad as this has gone so far, the Flyers did not have a lead in regulation until Jagr's goal late in tonight's game. In many ways, the Pens have taken the play to the Flyers, especially physically.

And the Flyers are very good offensively, but the 1980 Oilers they are not. The Pens really miss Hal Gill and his ability to clear the crease and just rub guys out along the boards. Without Scuderi and Gill back there, the defense has not been the same.
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