Penguins v. Flyers (Game 3) GDT

[Member]

If you're going to trade someone, Staal has the most value.

DING DING DING...what does he win, Johnny???

$4 Million to play on the 3rd line...
$4 Million to play on the 3rd line...
$4 Million to play on the 3rd line...

Name me ONE other team that wastes $4 Million on a 3rd-liner???

Challenge accepted.

http://bruins.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8458525

What do I win?

I don't know, ask the Pens, they've been having a lot of 'giveaways' lately.

[TheHammer24]

This is mind numbing. You act like having a $4 million 25 goal scoring 3rd line center is a bad thing. What are you going to move Staal for? A scoring winger? c'mon. Personnel isn't the problem. We have the best personnel in the league. Shea Weber and Zdeno Chara could have played in place of Martin and Michalek over the past several weeks, and we would have still lost to NYI, Ottawa, and three straight to Philly.

[bhaw]

This is mind numbing. You act like having a $4 million 25 goal scoring 3rd line center is a bad thing. What are you going to move Staal for? A scoring winger? c'mon. Personnel isn't the problem. We have the best personnel in the league. Shea Weber and Zdeno Chara could have played in place of Martin and Michalek over the past several weeks, and we would have still lost to NYI, Ottawa, and three straight to Philly.

Agree.

[Godric]

Shea Weber and Zdeno Chara could have played in place of Martin and Michalek over the past several weeks, and we would have still lost to NYI, Ottawa, and three straight to Philly.

[bhaw]

I don't know where else to post this, but watching the LA/VAN game puts some good perspective on today. They have the same "gooner" and "antics" going on right now. What we saw today wasn't abnormal in terms of the Pens response when you look at the NHL as a whole. I think it's just people boiling over b/c we are getting dismantled on the score board, and it's easier to be upset at the Pens "goonery" that coming to the realization that we are just getting our asses handed to us on the ice by Philly.

[Henry Hank]

What bothered me about it today is that the Pens, down 3-1 in the first - largely self inflicted after another good start and early lead - already were resorting to the goon stuff. It's like they were giving up that early in the game. This was a must win, supposed to be a response game from them, and that's all they got. They just seem incredibly weak minded right now and that's something I never would have expected from them. This is supposed to be a mature, veteran, Cup tested team by this point.

[lemieuxReturns]

What bothered me about it today is that the Pens, down 3-1 in the first - largely self inflicted after another good start and early lead - already were resorting to the goon stuff. It's like they were giving up that early in the game. This was a must win, supposed to be a response game from them, and that's all they got. They just seem incredibly weak minded right now and that's something I never would have expected from them. This is supposed to be a mature, veteran, Cup tested team by this point.

Yeah. In fact a lot of the argument for keeping the group intact was the fact that they were a veteran cup-tested team with just bad luck in the injury department. It is not looking like a great argument anymore.

[farnham16]

Of all the crap and embarrssment out there, no player has disappointed me like Kris Letang. He has become so easily throw off his game its not even funny. If someone touches him he freaks out. Zero composure. Our best defensemen takes a selfish penalty and then proceeds to get himself kicked out of a must win game. So much immaturity and selfishness from Letang in this series. Not to mention horrible play. So disappointing.

[Streaks House]

What bothered me about it today is that the Pens, down 3-1 in the first - largely self inflicted after another good start and early lead - already were resorting to the goon stuff. It's like they were giving up that early in the game. This was a must win, supposed to be a response game from them, and that's all they got. They just seem incredibly weak minded right now and that's something I never would have expected from them. This is supposed to be a mature, veteran, Cup tested team by this point.

Yeah. In fact a lot of the argument for keeping the group intact was the fact that they were a veteran cup-tested team with just bad luck in the injury department. It is not looking like a great argument anymore.

I hate to say it again as I've harped on this is in another thread, but could the glue that held the Pens together the last year and a half have been the injuries? The team played desperate and knew there was little margin for error. They fed off adversity.

[MayIsForHockey]

The Senators & Rangers game was just as bad, or worse. It's hard to believe that it's a coincidence after Weber only received a fine for banging someone's head off the glass. Let's just hope the Pens aren't in the league's "send-a-message" cross-hairs now.

Most of the hits that everyone is complaining about are not as bad as the talking heads are saying. Asham's cross-check was bad, but NOT anywhere near Schenn's throat. Neil's hit on Coutourier was more similar to Steckel's hit on Crosby - an accident; they turned in each other's direction right before the hit - nothing like Schenn's charge at an engaged Martin. Neil did not go after Giroux's head or do it from behind; Giroux ducked and turned. A ref was looking directly at the hit, from a much better position than the camera angle, and he made no call. On the other hand, Adam's punching Hartnell before he was ready was pretty clear.

[DudeMan2766]

Shea Weber and Zdeno Chara could have played in place of Martin and Michalek over the past several weeks, and we would have still lost to NYI, Ottawa, and three straight to Philly.

Yeah thats not true at all.

[MayIsForHockey]

If the Pens had put big money into d-men like Chara and Weber, I'd bet that their approach to the game, and particularly defense, would be a little different than it is now.

[Mr. Colby]

Letang's been outrageously awful, Martin and Michalek have been limp-wristed and can't make a breakout pass, Orpik, Crosby, and Staal have forgotten how to cover guys in the defensive zone, Kunitz and Malkin keep turning the puck over, Fleury won't shut the door when we need it the most

Considering those are the top players on this team it's easy to see why we are where we are.

Today Neal was ballsy, a ton of heart from that guy. And Niskanen too.

[MRandall25]

If the Pens had put big money into d-men like Chara and Weber, I'd bet that their approach to the game, and particularly defense, would be a little different than it is now.

,,, And people here would still find a reason to complain.

[malkinshair]

What bothered me about it today is that the Pens, down 3-1 in the first - largely self inflicted after another good start and early lead - already were resorting to the goon stuff. It's like they were giving up that early in the game. This was a must win, supposed to be a response game from them, and that's all they got. They just seem incredibly weak minded right now and that's something I never would have expected from them. This is supposed to be a mature, veteran, Cup tested team by this point.

...and as a mature, veteran, Cup tested team they seemed to have figured out that they cannot stop Philly's offense right now. The Flyers O is at the very top of its game right now, and the Pens have no answer defensively. They've also figured out that they seemingly can't score enough to outscore them, so the only logical thing to do is...anything they can to disrupt the timing, rhythm, and confidence of the Flyers. I would have suggested staying out of the box, actually scoring on your PP instead of letting them score, and being responsible defensively, but, you know, toe-may-toe/toe-mah-toe.

[André]

Sorta serious question - do the Penguins explore trading Crosby? big contract up after next year, injury history, team rolling along w/o him, he comes back and something changes.

[Abe Frohman]

If you're going to trade someone, Staal has the most value.

DING DING DING...what does he win, Johnny???

$4 Million to play on the 3rd line...
$4 Million to play on the 3rd line...
$4 Million to play on the 3rd line...

Name me ONE other team that wastes $4 Million on a 3rd-liner???

Name me 1 other team that has Jordan Staal, Evgeni Malkin, and Sidney Crosby.

Name me 1 other team that spends $4 Million on a THIRD LINE CENTER...and has to flank its top center (assuming we label Crosby as #1, and Malkin as #1A) with Steve Sullivan and Pascal Dupuis.

I fail to understand your point. IF Staal cannot cut the top 6 on THIS team, he needs to be moved. $4 Million could be better-spent on deficiencies...

[Abe Frohman]

If you're going to trade someone, Staal has the most value.

DING DING DING...what does he win, Johnny???

$4 Million to play on the 3rd line...
$4 Million to play on the 3rd line...
$4 Million to play on the 3rd line...

Name me ONE other team that wastes $4 Million on a 3rd-liner???

This whole "$4 million for a 3rd liner!" sentiment is so flawed. He has the second highest average time on ice among Penguin forwards this season.

Yup...and assuming that Crosby is healthy, this will change next season...and the Pens will be spending $4 Million on a 3rd line center. THIS is an expenditure that NO team can afford in the salary cap era.

IF he cannot crack the top 6, his contract MUST be wiped off the books, and the money spent elsewhere...

[slappybrown]

You were the trade Staal guy 3 years ago, and you're still pushing it, so I have to commend your ability to stay on message. Of course, you only posted when they were in the **** right before Therrien got fired, and now you're back when they are down 3-0, so go figure.

[Abe Frohman]

You were the trade Staal guy 3 years ago, and you're still pushing it, so I have to commend your ability to stay on message. Of course, you only posted when they were in the **** right before Therrien got fired, and now you're back when they are down 3-0, so go figure.

I seldom have time to read message boards, but was very curious to see what the fans were saying following Game 2. I even had to look up my password to log on.

I have been a lifelong Pens fan, and aside from the 93 team, cannot recall a more disappointing playoff series from this organization. What's worse...93's loss was far-more devastating, but at least explainable. This year's team is a total mystery...a complete implosion. I could have seen a loss in a tightly-contested series, but this is inexplicable. I have NO idea how to explain it.

That being said...YES...I have repeatedly spoken of the folly of tying up $4 Million in a 3rd line center when the Pens have ALREADY spent $17.4 on its other 2 top centers. TOO much money down the middle, to the detriment of other positions. Staal may have an incredible upside, but to FIND talent (outside the draft...ie. signing FAs or in trades), you must OFFER talent in exchange.

The Pens have wasted a lot of cash locking up Orpik, Martin, Michaelek...all expendable IF their positions can be filled. Add to that the $4 Million on Staal (assuming he CANNOT crack the top 6), and you can see WHY their defense and wings (aside from Neal) are woefully undermanned (talent-wise)..

[marek]

Can someone please explain to me how on earth the penguins are "gooning it up"... And back it up with rational examples and thought!!!

Who has been a goon?
Asham? Laughable. He pushed schenn with his hands. Schenn acted like he was shot like JFK.

Adams? Jumped in for Sid. Hartnell was being his clown ass typical self. Him throwing his gloves off was almost as amusing as semin pounding on Marc staal like a drum. Lol

Neal? Give me a freaking break. Neither hit warranted a penalty let alone suspension.

[slappybrown]

What amount of production from Staal, particularly at even strength given he gets limited PP time (he had 7 PP pts this year out 25-25-50 line), would make his salary acceptable to you? 30-30? Because you keep pounding on top 6, but if the production belies that moniker, than I don't care what you call him.

[marek]

What amount of production from Staal, particularly at even strength given he gets limited PP time (he had 7 PP pts this year out 25-25-50 line), would make his salary acceptable to you? 30-30? Because you keep pounding on top 6, but if the production belies that moniker, than I don't care what you call him.

Um he scored 25 goals in 60 games. On the third and part time second line. Enough said. How soon everyone forgets. Jeez.

[slappybrown]

What amount of production from Staal, particularly at even strength given he gets limited PP time (he had 7 PP pts this year out 25-25-50 line), would make his salary acceptable to you? 30-30? Because you keep pounding on top 6, but if the production belies that moniker, than I don't care what you call him.

Um he scored 25 goals in 60 games. On the third and part time second line. Enough said. How soon everyone forgets. Jeez.

I was directing my post at AbeFrohman to be clear. But yes, of course.

[Abe Frohman]

What amount of production from Staal, particularly at even strength given he gets limited PP time (he had 7 PP pts this year out 25-25-50 line), would make his salary acceptable to you? 30-30? Because you keep pounding on top 6, but if the production belies that moniker, than I don't care what you call him.

Um he scored 25 goals in 60 games. On the third and part time second line. Enough said. How soon everyone forgets. Jeez.

I was directing my post at AbeFrohman to be clear. But yes, of course.

I have yet to deny his production, nor upside. I am simply saying that IF he is not top 6, you are shackling Malkin or Crosby with inferior wings, tying up MUCH -needed cash (on D or up front), & setting up a potential future problem in keeping 1 of your top 2 centers happy.

Regardless...the 3-center attack has produced ZERO wins in the past 3 playoff games, and 3 straight series defeats (I recognize the injuries last year). At some point, a different direction is needed (whether spending on a shutdown D with Staal's contract moved), or improving the wing(s).

As difficult as it may be to admit, maybe the 2009 CUP was more a combination of career / playoff performances, a missing Datsyuk (by and large), and the stars aligning than it is attributable to a Pens team gelling into a consistent contender. Perhaps we have ALL been fooled by that CUP win...fooled into believing that the 2009 'system' was going to be successful going forward.

Again...to strengthen weak areas, you MUST offer talent to acquire said talent. As it is unlikely the Pens will part with Crosby, Neal, Malkin, or Letang, WHAT can be offered that would gain a good return? Staal IS their most marketable commodity (good contract, good upside, proven scoring ability, trading from center depth), and his $4 Million could be used to deal for other areas...needed areas.