PENGUINS v. flyers GAME 6 (GDT)

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Re: PENGUINS v. flyers GAME 6 (GDT)

Postby youngblood on Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:54 pm

pens#1 wrote:
youngblood wrote:
André wrote:On Sid I wouldn't be surprised to hear about something concerning health. His last two games were exceptionally weak and that is rarely seen two games in a row, rarely seen if he's healthy and rarely seen vs the Flyers.

Agree, and I do believe he will regain the title of the best


you just said you were tired of hearing how he is the best?

That's right, at this time he isn't
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Re: PENGUINS v. flyers GAME 6 (GDT)

Postby knives of ice on Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:54 pm

HAHA trade sid. what a joke. no chance of that happening would be a horrible business decision for the team even it would be a good hockey move.

sid's numbers since he came back are insane for being out so long as well. he'll be great next year no reason to think he won't
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Re: PENGUINS v. flyers GAME 6 (GDT)

Postby youngblood on Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:55 pm

youngblood wrote:
pens#1 wrote:
youngblood wrote:
André wrote:On Sid I wouldn't be surprised to hear about something concerning health. His last two games were exceptionally weak and that is rarely seen two games in a row, rarely seen if he's healthy and rarely seen vs the Flyers.

Agree, and I do believe he will regain the title of the best


you just said you were tired of hearing how he is the best?

That's right, at this time he isn't

Hence, regain
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Re: PENGUINS v. flyers GAME 6 (GDT)

Postby Abe Frohman on Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:55 pm

Staggy wrote:
Abe Frohman wrote:
mariojr wrote:In 2009, Malkin didn't have the huge contract yet, so we could afford to pay both him and Crosby. Now, I'm not sure we can keep paying them, plus Staal, Fleury, Neal, Orpik, Letang, Martin (yuk!), and Michalek (yuk again!) and still have room for good support players. I would keep Malkin over Crosby at this point.


Agreed.

Malkin does not have the precarious health issues of Crosby, and the NHL will NOT give the Pens a suitable replacement IF Crosby retires after his next good hit.

Trade Crosby now...the Pens will get a HUGE return (doesn't have to be ALL in roster players, mix picks and players to lessen the CAP hit).

This allows Malkin and Staal to center the top 2 lines...spend the extra cap space on a wing, retool D (Despres, jettison Martin and Orpik if possible)...


You don't trade the best player in the world unless there is a legitimate reason. There isn't.

And what does "the NHL will NOT give the Pens a suitable replacement" even mean? They're not going to "rig" another draft for us? :roll:


MY legitimate reasons are:

1) Team has become stale / complacent...and a major shakeup is necessary.
2) Crosby's neverending health concerns will NEVER go away.
3) Losing Crosby (after 1 good hit) to retirement will devastate this organization for years.
4) Crosby's trade would serve as a 'major shakeup,' garner a large return, AND eliminate the health concerns.
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Re: PENGUINS v. flyers GAME 6 (GDT)

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:57 pm

guys just looked tired today. It was really just a shame they couldn't take advantage of a relatively weak eastern conference this year and drawing the Flyers in the first round. Hopefully Shero can get some new blood on the team that won't be so complacent come playoff time. I'm not sure what it is but the team outlook needs to change come next season.
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Re: PENGUINS v. flyers GAME 6 (GDT)

Postby lemieuxReturns on Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:59 pm

Abe Frohman wrote:
Staggy wrote:
Abe Frohman wrote:
mariojr wrote:In 2009, Malkin didn't have the huge contract yet, so we could afford to pay both him and Crosby. Now, I'm not sure we can keep paying them, plus Staal, Fleury, Neal, Orpik, Letang, Martin (yuk!), and Michalek (yuk again!) and still have room for good support players. I would keep Malkin over Crosby at this point.


Agreed.

Malkin does not have the precarious health issues of Crosby, and the NHL will NOT give the Pens a suitable replacement IF Crosby retires after his next good hit.

Trade Crosby now...the Pens will get a HUGE return (doesn't have to be ALL in roster players, mix picks and players to lessen the CAP hit).

This allows Malkin and Staal to center the top 2 lines...spend the extra cap space on a wing, retool D (Despres, jettison Martin and Orpik if possible)...


You don't trade the best player in the world unless there is a legitimate reason. There isn't.

And what does "the NHL will NOT give the Pens a suitable replacement" even mean? They're not going to "rig" another draft for us? :roll:


MY legitimate reasons are:

1) Team has become stale / complacent...and a major shakeup is necessary.
2) Crosby's neverending health concerns will NEVER go away.
3) Losing Crosby (after 1 good hit) to retirement will devastate this organization for years.
4) Crosby's trade would serve as a 'major shakeup,' garner a large return, AND eliminate the health concerns.


Why do i get the feeling you are an assasin meant to conjure up hate for a player who is the heart-soul-and-skill of our team?
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Re: PENGUINS v. flyers GAME 6 (GDT)

Postby André on Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:02 pm

Trade Sid, weak western conference etc. I should've known better than opening this thread at this point.
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Re: PENGUINS v. flyers GAME 6 (GDT)

Postby penny lane on Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:03 pm

I was weirded out by the whole blow up after the last season game in Pittsburgh. I am sure all of the media focus regarding the fights, etc, wasn't the way to begin the series.

Shorthanded goals killed them. The lack of early adjustments on the power play and in general, contributed to the loss.
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Re: PENGUINS v. flyers GAME 6 (GDT)

Postby malksby8771 on Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:04 pm

bhaw wrote:Martin has some kind of limited NMC. I don't recall what the terms were.


There is no such thing as a limited NMC. A NMC is a NMC. He can't be moved. However, he does have a limited NTC. He can submit a list of 10 teams he would be willing to accept a trade to. If we can't work out a deal, he is stuck here due to the NMC since we cannot bury him in the AHL.

http://capgeek.com/players/display.php?id=779
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Re: PENGUINS v. flyers GAME 6 (GDT)

Postby Abe Frohman on Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:05 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:
Abe Frohman wrote:
Staggy wrote:
Abe Frohman wrote:
mariojr wrote:In 2009, Malkin didn't have the huge contract yet, so we could afford to pay both him and Crosby. Now, I'm not sure we can keep paying them, plus Staal, Fleury, Neal, Orpik, Letang, Martin (yuk!), and Michalek (yuk again!) and still have room for good support players. I would keep Malkin over Crosby at this point.


Agreed.

Malkin does not have the precarious health issues of Crosby, and the NHL will NOT give the Pens a suitable replacement IF Crosby retires after his next good hit.

Trade Crosby now...the Pens will get a HUGE return (doesn't have to be ALL in roster players, mix picks and players to lessen the CAP hit).

This allows Malkin and Staal to center the top 2 lines...spend the extra cap space on a wing, retool D (Despres, jettison Martin and Orpik if possible)...


You don't trade the best player in the world unless there is a legitimate reason. There isn't.

And what does "the NHL will NOT give the Pens a suitable replacement" even mean? They're not going to "rig" another draft for us? :roll:


MY legitimate reasons are:

1) Team has become stale / complacent...and a major shakeup is necessary.
2) Crosby's neverending health concerns will NEVER go away.
3) Losing Crosby (after 1 good hit) to retirement will devastate this organization for years.
4) Crosby's trade would serve as a 'major shakeup,' garner a large return, AND eliminate the health concerns.


Why do i get the feeling you are an assasin meant to conjure up hate for a player who is the heart-soul-and-skill of our team?



WHAT???

Crosby is the heart and soul sitting in the pressbox / Lemieux suite for the better part of 1.5 seasons? You seriously want to argue that?

Fine...keep your Sid jersey...Hell, even get it autographed and wear it proudly. IF he retires early and the Pens get NO suitable replacement (thru trade), you can clutch it tightly, proud you supported the 'heart and soul' as the Pens suffer thru years of also-ran status...

NO one man is more important than the organization. I long ago stopped the idol-worship that is pervasive on this board (and throughout sporting fandom). I watch the games and cheer for the team...NOT the player...and recognize that ALL of them are expendable for the team's greater good.
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Re: PENGUINS v. flyers GAME 6 (GDT)

Postby lemieuxReturns on Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:12 pm

NO one man is more important than the organization.


Listen. Every team that trades their superstar loses out. No matter what, they lose. You may think in your head, that you are going to get some sort of unreal package of heavy weights, but its not going to happen. Go ask Boston how long it took them to get over the trade of Joe Thornton or even the pens after trading Jagr. Those trades... as i said... never work out.

Please. I understand you are as pissed off as most of us. But lets take it back a little bit. Trading Crosby will never (ever) be the answer. He is averaging nearly 2 points a game. He has had a concussion problem, but many players have had issues with injuries. You don't trade them because something might happen to them one day. That could happen to anyone. The logic makes no sense. Its like saying "well this guy is amazing, lets trade him before he gets in a car accident and we cant get anything for him." Nonsense.
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Re: PENGUINS v. flyers GAME 6 (GDT)

Postby CERV96 on Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:19 pm

Great season game day threaders!

BTW trading 71, 87, or 29 is just crazy talk.
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Re: PENGUINS v. flyers GAME 6 (GDT)

Postby bhaw on Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:27 pm

If anyone is seriously suggesting trading MAF... the only real starter who is available will be Luongo at $7M/yr. I know people on this board LOVE the way he plays in the playoffs.
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Re: PENGUINS v. flyers GAME 6 (GDT)

Postby Steve on Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:32 pm

I'll just write off the trading of #87 as frustration an hour after elimination.

I've read that Sid focuses on improving one thing in the offseason, i think this season it may be defensive zone work. Not that he's terrible, but one of the few areas that he's not elite.
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Re: PENGUINS v. flyers GAME 6 (GDT)

Postby pens#1 on Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:35 pm

its time to have Sid and Geno kill penalties
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Re: PENGUINS v. flyers GAME 6 (GDT)

Postby MRandall25 on Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:44 pm

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Re: PENGUINS v. flyers GAME 6 (GDT)

Postby Abe Frohman on Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:59 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:
NO one man is more important than the organization.


Listen. Every team that trades their superstar loses out. No matter what, they lose. You may think in your head, that you are going to get some sort of unreal package of heavy weights, but its not going to happen. Go ask Boston how long it took them to get over the trade of Joe Thornton or even the pens after trading Jagr. Those trades... as i said... never work out.

Please. I understand you are as pissed off as most of us. But lets take it back a little bit. Trading Crosby will never (ever) be the answer. He is averaging nearly 2 points a game. He has had a concussion problem, but many players have had issues with injuries. You don't trade them because something might happen to them one day. That could happen to anyone. The logic makes no sense. Its like saying "well this guy is amazing, lets trade him before he gets in a car accident and we cant get anything for him." Nonsense.


I'm not pissed off...

1) Boston was incredibly wise to deal Thornton. He is a perreneal no-show in the playoffs, and belongs with the same in San Jose.
2) Thornton is NOT a 'generational' player, and his return would be dwarfed next to what could be gotten for Crosby.
3) Your scenario is missing the following:

'...lets trade him before he gets in a car accident' should be accompanied by the fact that this mythical player (of your choosing) has had multiple accidents in the past 18 months, been at Harmarville rehab for damn near the entirety of those 18 months, plays a game (or drives a car in your scenario) in a fashion that increases his chances to have another accident, and will likely retire prematurely following his next accident. Oh...and he takes the keys to our sportscar with him, with NO suitable replacement in the garage...not even a loaner.

Certainly this rough sport can lead to devastating injuries to any player. However...we are not speaking of 'any' player. We are speaking of the top talent in the league with (I repeat, and you failed to mention in your scenario) a history of concussions / traffic accidents. The likelhood of the 'next' hit being career-ending is much higher than with other players.

Disagree? Ask anyone in the medical profession...or...Eric Lindros, his brother, Primeau, etc...
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Re: PENGUINS v. flyers GAME 6 (GDT)

Postby bhaw on Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:03 pm

Any trade can dwarf the return Boston got for Thornton.

As a matter of fact, I just traded the white plastic bowl I had in my hands to my daughter for 2 pink plastic bowls. Already I have done better than Boston.
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Re: PENGUINS v. flyers GAME 6 (GDT)

Postby lemieuxReturns on Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:06 pm

Abe Frohman wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:
NO one man is more important than the organization.


Listen. Every team that trades their superstar loses out. No matter what, they lose. You may think in your head, that you are going to get some sort of unreal package of heavy weights, but its not going to happen. Go ask Boston how long it took them to get over the trade of Joe Thornton or even the pens after trading Jagr. Those trades... as i said... never work out.

Please. I understand you are as pissed off as most of us. But lets take it back a little bit. Trading Crosby will never (ever) be the answer. He is averaging nearly 2 points a game. He has had a concussion problem, but many players have had issues with injuries. You don't trade them because something might happen to them one day. That could happen to anyone. The logic makes no sense. Its like saying "well this guy is amazing, lets trade him before he gets in a car accident and we cant get anything for him." Nonsense.


I'm not pissed off...

1) Boston was incredibly wise to deal Thornton. He is a perreneal no-show in the playoffs, and belongs with the same in San Jose.
2) Thornton is NOT a 'generational' player, and his return would be dwarfed next to what could be gotten for Crosby.
3) Your scenario is missing the following:

'...lets trade him before he gets in a car accident' should be accompanied by the fact that this mythical player (of your choosing) has had multiple accidents in the past 18 months, been at Harmarville rehab for damn near the entirety of those 18 months, plays a game (or drives a car in your scenario) in a fashion that increases his chances to have another accident, and will likely retire prematurely following his next accident. Oh...and he takes the keys to our sportscar with him, with NO suitable replacement in the garage...not even a loaner.

Certainly this rough sport can lead to devastating injuries to any player. However...we are not speaking of 'any' player. We are speaking of the top talent in the league with (I repeat, and you failed to mention in your scenario) a history of concussions / traffic accidents. The likelhood of the 'next' hit being career-ending is much higher than with other players.

Disagree? Ask anyone in the medical profession...or...Eric Lindros, his brother, Primeau, etc...


Instead of asking someone about a flyer I will instead look at the history of our own team the Pittsburgh Penguins. Who, at some point in the 90's also had a "generational player" who was battling a think called cancer. At that point in time, you could also say that the penguins, for fear of losing the best player in the world for nothing, might have wanted to trade Lemieux.

I think we all can agree that would have been a horrible idea.

Crosby is not going anywhere. Stop the insanity.
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Re: PENGUINS v. flyers GAME 6 (GDT)

Postby Abe Frohman on Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:10 pm

bhaw wrote:Any trade can dwarf the return Boston got for Thornton.

As a matter of fact, I just traded the white plastic bowl I had in my hands to my daughter for 2 pink plastic bowls. Already I have done better than Boston.


Agreed...but that wasn't my point.

I am saying that it should at least be considered that trading Crosby might accomplish the following things:

1) Elimination of the health worries.
2) Shake-up of the team.
3) Ability to maneuver under the cap.
4) A large return for Crosby.

I am NOT arguing that Crosby is to blame NOR he is lacking talent. I am saying that trading him could have benefits...and that it shouldn't be ridiculed nor discounted.
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Re: PENGUINS v. flyers GAME 6 (GDT)

Postby Headshot77 on Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:13 pm

It is officially WWE season now.
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Re: PENGUINS v. flyers GAME 6 (GDT)

Postby Abe Frohman on Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:16 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:
Abe Frohman wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:
NO one man is more important than the organization.


Listen. Every team that trades their superstar loses out. No matter what, they lose. You may think in your head, that you are going to get some sort of unreal package of heavy weights, but its not going to happen. Go ask Boston how long it took them to get over the trade of Joe Thornton or even the pens after trading Jagr. Those trades... as i said... never work out.

Please. I understand you are as pissed off as most of us. But lets take it back a little bit. Trading Crosby will never (ever) be the answer. He is averaging nearly 2 points a game. He has had a concussion problem, but many players have had issues with injuries. You don't trade them because something might happen to them one day. That could happen to anyone. The logic makes no sense. Its like saying "well this guy is amazing, lets trade him before he gets in a car accident and we cant get anything for him." Nonsense.


I'm not pissed off...

1) Boston was incredibly wise to deal Thornton. He is a perreneal no-show in the playoffs, and belongs with the same in San Jose.
2) Thornton is NOT a 'generational' player, and his return would be dwarfed next to what could be gotten for Crosby.
3) Your scenario is missing the following:

'...lets trade him before he gets in a car accident' should be accompanied by the fact that this mythical player (of your choosing) has had multiple accidents in the past 18 months, been at Harmarville rehab for damn near the entirety of those 18 months, plays a game (or drives a car in your scenario) in a fashion that increases his chances to have another accident, and will likely retire prematurely following his next accident. Oh...and he takes the keys to our sportscar with him, with NO suitable replacement in the garage...not even a loaner.

Certainly this rough sport can lead to devastating injuries to any player. However...we are not speaking of 'any' player. We are speaking of the top talent in the league with (I repeat, and you failed to mention in your scenario) a history of concussions / traffic accidents. The likelhood of the 'next' hit being career-ending is much higher than with other players.

Disagree? Ask anyone in the medical profession...or...Eric Lindros, his brother, Primeau, etc...


Instead of asking someone about a flyer I will instead look at the history of our own team the Pittsburgh Penguins. Who, at some point in the 90's also had a "generational player" who was battling a think called cancer. At that point in time, you could also say that the penguins, for fear of losing the best player in the world for nothing, might have wanted to trade Lemieux.

I think we all can agree that would have been a horrible idea.

Crosby is not going anywhere. Stop the insanity.


Was waiting for this comparison.

1) The 90's Pens were NOT playing in the era of a salary cap. Had Lemieux retired prematurely, Baldwin et al. could have spent MORE of their 'phoney money' attracting FAs to replace Mario. Keeping him was less a gamble than currently exists with Crosby.

2) I would RATHER compare the loss of Ron Francis after the 1996 playoffs to what may happen with Crosby. Lose the player (when he COULD have been traded prior to said loss) and receive NO return. What follows is a slide into also-ran status BECAUSE you let talent walk without replenishing through necessary trades.

3) I agree with you on 1 point: trading Crosby will (likely) not happen. I, however, think this is a mistake...one the Pens will regret IF Crosby goes down again.
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Re: PENGUINS v. flyers GAME 6 (GDT)

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:17 pm

5) A seemingly high return of high profile players/prospects for Crosby that, in fact, turns out to blow up in our face.
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Re: PENGUINS v. flyers GAME 6 (GDT)

Postby lemieuxReturns on Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:19 pm

Abe Frohman wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:
Abe Frohman wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:
NO one man is more important than the organization.


Listen. Every team that trades their superstar loses out. No matter what, they lose. You may think in your head, that you are going to get some sort of unreal package of heavy weights, but its not going to happen. Go ask Boston how long it took them to get over the trade of Joe Thornton or even the pens after trading Jagr. Those trades... as i said... never work out.

Please. I understand you are as pissed off as most of us. But lets take it back a little bit. Trading Crosby will never (ever) be the answer. He is averaging nearly 2 points a game. He has had a concussion problem, but many players have had issues with injuries. You don't trade them because something might happen to them one day. That could happen to anyone. The logic makes no sense. Its like saying "well this guy is amazing, lets trade him before he gets in a car accident and we cant get anything for him." Nonsense.


I'm not pissed off...

1) Boston was incredibly wise to deal Thornton. He is a perreneal no-show in the playoffs, and belongs with the same in San Jose.
2) Thornton is NOT a 'generational' player, and his return would be dwarfed next to what could be gotten for Crosby.
3) Your scenario is missing the following:

'...lets trade him before he gets in a car accident' should be accompanied by the fact that this mythical player (of your choosing) has had multiple accidents in the past 18 months, been at Harmarville rehab for damn near the entirety of those 18 months, plays a game (or drives a car in your scenario) in a fashion that increases his chances to have another accident, and will likely retire prematurely following his next accident. Oh...and he takes the keys to our sportscar with him, with NO suitable replacement in the garage...not even a loaner.

Certainly this rough sport can lead to devastating injuries to any player. However...we are not speaking of 'any' player. We are speaking of the top talent in the league with (I repeat, and you failed to mention in your scenario) a history of concussions / traffic accidents. The likelhood of the 'next' hit being career-ending is much higher than with other players.

Disagree? Ask anyone in the medical profession...or...Eric Lindros, his brother, Primeau, etc...


Instead of asking someone about a flyer I will instead look at the history of our own team the Pittsburgh Penguins. Who, at some point in the 90's also had a "generational player" who was battling a think called cancer. At that point in time, you could also say that the penguins, for fear of losing the best player in the world for nothing, might have wanted to trade Lemieux.

I think we all can agree that would have been a horrible idea.

Crosby is not going anywhere. Stop the insanity.


Was waiting for this comparison.

1) The 90's Pens were NOT playing in the era of a salary cap. Had Lemieux retired prematurely, Baldwin et al. could have spent MORE of their 'phoney money' attracting FAs to replace Mario. Keeping him was less a gamble than currently exists with Crosby.

2) I would RATHER compare the loss of Ron Francis after the 1996 playoffs to what may happen with Crosby. Lose the player (when he COULD have been traded prior to said loss) and receive NO return. What follows is a slide into also-ran status BECAUSE you let talent walk without replenishing through necessary trades.

3) I agree with you on 1 point: trading Crosby will (likely) not happen. I, however, think this is a mistake...one the Pens will regret IF Crosby goes down again.


Crosby is not going to chicago.
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Re: PENGUINS v. flyers GAME 6 (GDT)

Postby Abe Frohman on Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:20 pm

Let me also say that eventually, you SHALL see someone moved due to cap issues. It will be either Crosby or Malkin, as their talent and cost (and probable egos) will make the coexistence an issue. I, personally, would resign Malkin (in fear of Crosby's health issues), and deal Crosby.

I simply ask: WITH his health issues and superstar status, do you REALLY think Crosby will remain signable? With all concerns addressed (health and HIS demands for cash)? Sid's going to ask for cash in the $10 Million range AND long-term (why wouldn't he considering his health issues). Do YOU pay that out?

I don't...
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