2005, good draft for the pens.

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2005, good draft for the pens.

Postby pekkasteele on Tue May 08, 2012 7:28 am

I was looking up the drafts and noticed, 2005 was a good year for us, we drafted 3 players currently on the HNL roster, and traded for 2 more.

1 Sidney Crosby
28 Matt Niskanen
33 James Neal
62 Kristopher Letang
195 Joe Vitale

That is 2 top-6 forwards, and one top-pairing d-man and a 2nd to 3rd pairing d-man, oh, and Vitale. Other than that, the others we drafted was never to been seen. And that Crosby guy have been playing parts of the last 2 seasons for us, so I guess he is at least kind of good.
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Re: 2005, good draft for the pens.

Postby tfrizz on Tue May 08, 2012 7:57 am

Now take a look at 2006-2009.


Jordan Staal
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Re: 2005, good draft for the pens.

Postby Defence21 on Tue May 08, 2012 8:58 am

tfrizz wrote:Now take a look at 2006-2009.


Jordan Staal

Make no mistake about it, Shero's draft record has been poor, at best. That being said, he's also turned several of his draft pick busts into quality trade returns/playoff rentals. You have to credit the man for at least partially fixing his mistakes. And let's be honest, Shero is a trading genius.
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Re: 2005, good draft for the pens.

Postby Cr@zy871 on Tue May 08, 2012 10:04 am

Defence21 wrote:
tfrizz wrote:Now take a look at 2006-2009.


Jordan Staal

Make no mistake about it, Shero's draft record has been poor, at best. That being said, he's also turned several of his draft pick busts into quality trade returns/playoff rentals. You have to credit the man for at least partially fixing his mistakes. And let's be honest, Shero is a trading genius.


The man can sell!!! He is like Don Ready from the Goods... :)
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Re: 2005, good draft for the pens.

Postby sil on Tue May 08, 2012 10:40 am

Cr@zy871 wrote:
Defence21 wrote:
tfrizz wrote:Now take a look at 2006-2009.


Jordan Staal

Make no mistake about it, Shero's draft record has been poor, at best. That being said, he's also turned several of his draft pick busts into quality trade returns/playoff rentals. You have to credit the man for at least partially fixing his mistakes. And let's be honest, Shero is a trading genius.


The man can sell!!! He is like Don Ready from the Goods... :)


There's still some guys in the system that could one day prove to be NHL contributers too.

Bennett
Khunhackel (sp?)
D'Agostini
Agostino
Bryan Rust (though I'm one of a few who believes in this kid)
Morrow
Uher
Harrington
plus some others.

I agree it's tough to look past some of the absolute busts that Shero has taken early though, i.e. Keven Vellieux, CPZ, etc...
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Re: 2005, good draft for the pens.

Postby Pavel Bure on Tue May 08, 2012 10:48 am

pekkasteele wrote:I was looking up the drafts and noticed, 2005 was a good year for us, we drafted 3 players currently on the HNL roster, and traded for 2 more.

1 Sidney Crosby
28 Matt Niskanen
33 James Neal
62 Kristopher Letang
195 Joe Vitale

That is 2 top-6 forwards, and one top-pairing d-man and a 2nd to 3rd pairing d-man, oh, and Vitale. Other than that, the others we drafted was never to been seen. And that Crosby guy have been playing parts of the last 2 seasons for us, so I guess he is at least kind of good.

We didn't draft two of those players.
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Re: 2005, good draft for the pens.

Postby Cr@zy871 on Tue May 08, 2012 11:26 am

Pavel Bure wrote:
pekkasteele wrote:I was looking up the drafts and noticed, 2005 was a good year for us, we drafted 3 players currently on the HNL roster, and traded for 2 more.

1 Sidney Crosby
28 Matt Niskanen
33 James Neal
62 Kristopher Letang
195 Joe Vitale

That is 2 top-6 forwards, and one top-pairing d-man and a 2nd to 3rd pairing d-man, oh, and Vitale. Other than that, the others we drafted was never to been seen. And that Crosby guy have been playing parts of the last 2 seasons for us, so I guess he is at least kind of good.

We didn't draft two of those players.


I think he was making the point that all of these active roster players, CURRENTLY ON THE PENS, stemmed from the 05 draft.
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Re: 2005, good draft for the pens.

Postby pens#1 on Tue May 08, 2012 12:00 pm

the problem with the 2005 draft is that it was done by CP - not Shero
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Re: 2005, good draft for the pens.

Postby Corvidae on Tue May 08, 2012 12:38 pm

pens#1 wrote:the problem with the 2005 draft is that it was done by CP - not Shero


I'm still waiting for Shero to draft an NHL regular besides Staal.
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Re: 2005, good draft for the pens.

Postby sil on Tue May 08, 2012 1:23 pm

Corvidae wrote:
pens#1 wrote:the problem with the 2005 draft is that it was done by CP - not Shero


I'm still waiting for Shero to draft an NHL regular besides Staal.


It could happen as soon as this coming season...for good or bad.
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Re: 2005, good draft for the pens.

Postby Cr@zy871 on Tue May 08, 2012 1:27 pm

Corvidae wrote:
pens#1 wrote:the problem with the 2005 draft is that it was done by CP - not Shero


I'm still waiting for Shero to draft an NHL regular besides Staal.


Too add to this point... This was the 2nd overall pick that year, so I would hope that a player picked in this position in the draft would be an NHL regular...
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Re: 2005, good draft for the pens.

Postby Pitt87 on Tue May 08, 2012 3:26 pm

Defence21 wrote:
tfrizz wrote:Now take a look at 2006-2009.


Jordan Staal

Make no mistake about it, Shero's draft record has been poor, at best. That being said, he's also turned several of his draft pick busts into quality trade returns/playoff rentals. You have to credit the man for at least partially fixing his mistakes. And let's be honest, Shero is a trading genius.


That's how the cap era is supposed to work.

I don't think you can compare drafting Sidney Crosby and Kris Letang in the same year and with having late picks consistently since 2006 and say that we've drafted poorly. Teams that make the playoffs each year don't build with within the system nearly as much as teams that don't. I don't see Landon Ferraro or Brendan Smith lighting the lamp in Detroit right now...
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Re: 2005, good draft for the pens.

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue May 08, 2012 3:44 pm

Yes, the second best draft in Pens' history.
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Re: 2005, good draft for the pens.

Postby pens#1 on Tue May 08, 2012 4:04 pm

Pitt87 wrote:
Defence21 wrote:
tfrizz wrote:Now take a look at 2006-2009.


Jordan Staal

Make no mistake about it, Shero's draft record has been poor, at best. That being said, he's also turned several of his draft pick busts into quality trade returns/playoff rentals. You have to credit the man for at least partially fixing his mistakes. And let's be honest, Shero is a trading genius.


That's how the cap era is supposed to work.

I don't think you can compare drafting Sidney Crosby and Kris Letang in the same year and with having late picks consistently since 2006 and say that we've drafted poorly. Teams that make the playoffs each year don't build with within the system nearly as much as teams that don't. I don't see Landon Ferraro or Brendan Smith lighting the lamp in Detroit right now...


Detroit always has great scouting and picks- i think Zetterberg was a 6 or 7th rounder
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Re: 2005, good draft for the pens.

Postby Pavel Bure on Tue May 08, 2012 4:24 pm

pens#1 wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:
Defence21 wrote:
tfrizz wrote:Now take a look at 2006-2009.


Jordan Staal

Make no mistake about it, Shero's draft record has been poor, at best. That being said, he's also turned several of his draft pick busts into quality trade returns/playoff rentals. You have to credit the man for at least partially fixing his mistakes. And let's be honest, Shero is a trading genius.


That's how the cap era is supposed to work.

I don't think you can compare drafting Sidney Crosby and Kris Letang in the same year and with having late picks consistently since 2006 and say that we've drafted poorly. Teams that make the playoffs each year don't build with within the system nearly as much as teams that don't. I don't see Landon Ferraro or Brendan Smith lighting the lamp in Detroit right now...


Detroit always has great scouting and picks- i think Zetterberg was a 6 or 7th rounder

More of the Detroit finding world class in the bottom rounds. No. They got super lucky on those picks. If Zetts was considered to have the potential to be that good he would have went much much much much earlier and gotten picked by another team or the Redwings themselves. Just because they've taken fliers on guys and it worked doesn't mean it was great drafting. It was a shot in the dark that found its mark.
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Re: 2005, good draft for the pens.

Postby Defence21 on Tue May 08, 2012 4:37 pm

Pavel Bure wrote:
pens#1 wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:
That's how the cap era is supposed to work.

I don't think you can compare drafting Sidney Crosby and Kris Letang in the same year and with having late picks consistently since 2006 and say that we've drafted poorly. Teams that make the playoffs each year don't build with within the system nearly as much as teams that don't. I don't see Landon Ferraro or Brendan Smith lighting the lamp in Detroit right now...


Detroit always has great scouting and picks- i think Zetterberg was a 6 or 7th rounder

More of the Detroit finding world class in the bottom rounds. No. They got super lucky on those picks. If Zetts was considered to have the potential to be that good he would have went much much much much earlier and gotten picked by another team or the Redwings themselves. Just because they've taken fliers on guys and it worked doesn't mean it was great drafting. It was a shot in the dark that found its mark.

If it happens once, it's luck. If it happens time and again, it's great drafting. Few, if any teams, in recent history have had the draft success, specifically in the later rounds, that the Red Wings have had -- Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom? Come on!
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Re: 2005, good draft for the pens.

Postby Godric on Tue May 08, 2012 4:42 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:Yes, the second best draft in Pens' history.


The best draft is 2004? :pop:

Spoiler:
yes I know what a 1984 is. Thanks :slug:
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Re: 2005, good draft for the pens.

Postby Godric on Tue May 08, 2012 4:45 pm

Pavel Bure wrote:More of the Detroit finding world class in the bottom rounds. No. They got super lucky on those picks. If Zetts was considered to have the potential to be that good he would have went much much much much earlier and gotten picked by another team or the Redwings themselves. Just because they've taken fliers on guys and it worked doesn't mean it was great drafting. It was a shot in the dark that found its mark.


don't speak of which you do not know
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Re: 2005, good draft for the pens.

Postby Pavel Bure on Tue May 08, 2012 4:48 pm

Yep Detroit knew those guys would be very good that's why they just let them sit there till later rounds. Of course what was I thinking.
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Re: 2005, good draft for the pens.

Postby Godric on Tue May 08, 2012 4:52 pm

Pavel Bure wrote:Yep Detroit knew those guys would be very good that's why they just let them sit there till later rounds. Of course what was I thinking.


No other team had scouting reports on Zetterberg. Detroit had a scouting program in Europe that was 10x that of any other NHL team
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Re: 2005, good draft for the pens.

Postby Defence21 on Tue May 08, 2012 4:57 pm

Pavel Bure wrote:Yep Detroit knew those guys would be very good that's why they just let them sit there till later rounds. Of course what was I thinking.

So, you're saying they should have taken a player or players early in the draft just because the knew/thought they would be good/great -- even if they knew no other teams had them on their board, let alone had scouting reports on them? You don't take someone in the early rounds you know will last until the later rounds. It's not difficult to understand.

I'm not saying the Red Wings knew these players would become elite talents. But they also heavily scouted Europe in a way few other teams did and likely saw something others didn't see. These players weren't on the radar, and as such, the Wings were willing to wait until later in the draft to take them, rather than take them early, when no one else even had them on the board.

You can't honestly think that their late round draft success is based 100% on luck. They've done it too frequently for this to be the case.
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Re: 2005, good draft for the pens.

Postby Godric on Tue May 08, 2012 5:02 pm

Defence21 wrote:
Pavel Bure wrote:Yep Detroit knew those guys would be very good that's why they just let them sit there till later rounds. Of course what was I thinking.

So, you're saying they should have taken a player or players early in the draft just because the knew/thought they would be good/great -- even if they knew no other teams had them on their board, let alone had scouting reports on them? You don't take someone in the early rounds you know will last until the later rounds. It's not difficult to understand.

I'm not saying the Red Wings knew these players would become elite talents. But they also heavily scouted Europe in a way few other teams did and likely saw something others didn't see. These players weren't on the radar, and as such, the Wings were willing to wait until later in the draft to take them, rather than take them early, when no one else even had them on the board.

You can't honestly think that their late round draft success is based 100% on luck. They've done it too frequently for this to be the case.


Basically what I said.
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Re: 2005, good draft for the pens.

Postby Pavel Bure on Tue May 08, 2012 5:05 pm

That's what I'm saying. People act like the Wings knew these guys were going to be top tier talent. They didn't but I will say they knew they were worth a shot in the dark which is what the later rounds of the NHL are.
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Re: 2005, good draft for the pens.

Postby Godric on Tue May 08, 2012 5:07 pm

Pavel Bure wrote:That's what I'm saying. People act like the Wings knew these guys were going to be top tier talent. They didn't but I will say they knew they were worth a shot in the dark which is what the later rounds of the NHL are.


What the ****? no.

no no no no no
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Re: 2005, good draft for the pens.

Postby Pavel Bure on Tue May 08, 2012 5:08 pm

Godric wrote:
Pavel Bure wrote:That's what I'm saying. People act like the Wings knew these guys were going to be top tier talent. They didn't but I will say they knew they were worth a shot in the dark which is what the later rounds of the NHL are.


What the ****? no.

no no no no no

:thumb:
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