TheHammer24 wrote:Shaf, tifosi, Shy, and FFM, I'm really more on your side than you think. Let me explain.
I agree with your observations, but I would respond that the fact that cigarettes are legal for people 18+ makes it easier for people under 18 to obtain them. Indeed, cigarettes are easier to obtain than marijuana, which is illegal for everyone. But in California, where it is legal for some people, I again bet it is much easier for those that shouldn't have it to obtain. In other words, the operative inquiry isn't whether those that are prohibited from possessing guns are the ones committing crimes, but rather, are they able to get guns because guns are abundantly available for other people in this country.
Shaf is entirely right--gun control limits the guns to those that shouldn't have them. (Shaf and I have recently agreed to an uncomfortable extent). So even if the U.S. completely outlaws guns, some bad guys will have them. We still have cocaine and opium in this country; I'm not naive. As I also said, I think guns are enjoyable for a lot of people, and I don't have a problem with it. So really the operative question is: "will gun control laws reduce their nefarious use greater than the decrease in utility suffered by those that enjoy them"?
Guns are fun; that's fine. And I mean suffer--why punish them? I just absolutely reject the "if it saves one life argument." That's not fair--we could save 1,000,000 lives my outlawing cars, but we don't do it because they are utility-enhancing.
As for my conclusions? I think our liberal laws proliferate guns, but I probably agree with ffm in the end.
There's just such a reactionary and unnecessary. We should probably just maintain the status quo. I don't think we can really eliminate all the guns we have here now. Maybe we could slowly try to limit all handguns, and that would have a good effect, but I'm not sure.
Even with the assertion that you can get rid of all guns to create the utopia, you are still going to have bad guys who are going to use weapons and other objects to create fear and commit crimes. Are we going to get rid of all knives as well? Are we going to get rid of all the gasoline and matches? You see where I am going with this, its not the guns that are bad, its bad people. until we can solve the bad people problem, we aren't going to solve the perceived gun problem. Just look at other countries who have outlawed guns or have much stricter laws than the USA. They are either loosening their laws because they found the strict laws don't work (I am talking about you Canada), or they have a LOT worse crime since their "gun bans" (I am talking about you U.K, and Australia). Then look at Mexico, they have a pretty much de facto ban on guns for normal citizens for a LONG time and that place is like a war zone in some parts, the cartels run the place because the law abiding citizens have no way to protect themselves (at least part of the problem, surely deeper issues there).
Even look at the U.S. there is a direct correlation between strict gun laws and high crime rates. Now is this because of the socio economics of the areas and all those laws to try and fix the problem? maybe...... but after all these years those strict gun laws didn't do anything to fix the problems.
Now look at all the states over the past 15 years who have relaxed their laws on CCW, almost everyone, if not everyone, of those states has had crime decrease. The reasons for the crime decrease can't be known, I am sure it has a lot more to do with something other than just CCW laws being relaxed, but just as I said before, its clear that relaxing CCW laws didn't create more problems.
As much as the anti gun groups cried blood running on the streets and return to the wild wild west, it just hasn't happened. All of their fear mongering has turned out to be false. While they may have won some battles early on with those scare tactics, it is now costing them the war because its coming back to bite them on the ass.
The status quo would be Ok if everyone followed the same standards, I don't mind a quick background check to purchase a gun but you have places like Illinois, California, Maryland, DC, Hawaii, and New York who have overly oppressive laws that make it time consuming and difficult to own firearms or get a CCW.