George R.R. Martin

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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon May 21, 2012 4:18 pm

eddysnake wrote:
Spangler wrote:The changes to Arya's story disappoints me.

Again, the new Mountain is not good. He's actually swimming in his own armor.


he does have a cool voice.

I think I've figured out that even though they have the bigger budget, sets, cast, crew, they haven't told the story as well as they did in season 1. Everything is here, I'm just not being emotionally drawn into as much as the first season, anyone else feeling this?


I don't feel like its the storytelling that has taken a hit, I think its the story. Its just not as interesting.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby Spangler on Mon May 21, 2012 4:19 pm

Theon does not know where the Stark boys are. It's why he faked their death. He did it to make people think he found them.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby Shyster on Mon May 21, 2012 4:52 pm

I’ve only been skimming the HBO show. Have I missed something, or are Meera and Jojen Reed nowhere to be found? I can see eliminating and combining some other characters, but I think they’re a little more important.

Major book spoiler:
Spoiler:
Especially as their father Howland Reed is the only remaining person who knows the truth of Jon Snow’s parentage. And many signs point to Jon being the son of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen. Although I suppose the fact that the HBO show didn’t include any of Ned’s dreams or flashbacks could mean they have no intent of foreshadowing the issue of Jon’s parentage.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby eddysnake on Mon May 21, 2012 5:18 pm

Dang, i wish i didnt read shysters spoiler, was that revealed in the 5th book?
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby the wicked child on Mon May 21, 2012 5:31 pm

I don't recall reading anything to that effect... I think it may just be conjecture.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby Shyster on Mon May 21, 2012 5:56 pm

the wicked child wrote:I don't recall reading anything to that effect... I think it may just be conjecture.

Yes, it's just conjecture. There's a lot of circumstantial evidence, which includes:

[Contains big spoilers. Seriously I’m not kidding. If the TV show ever gets to this question, it could possibly ruin a huge surprise depending on how things turn out.]

Spoiler:
1. Arya and Jon are described as both having the traditional “Stark” appearance; Ned’s other children look more like the Tullys. When talking to Arya, Ned mentions that she looks a lot like Lyanna did at her age. So Jon looks like Arya who looks like Lyanna.

2. When Ned finally tracked down Lyanna (who had been kidnapped by Rhaegar), he had to kill multiple members of the Kingsguard who were guarding her. Only Ned and Howland Reed survived the fight. After the fight, Ned found Lyanna feverish and dying in a “bed of blood.” She could have been dying from compilations following childbirth.

3. Ned tracked down Lyanna and fought the Kingsguard after the war. Aerys and Rhaegar were dead at that point and Robert was on the Iron Throne. Why was the Kingsguard still guarding Lyanna? The presence of the Kingsguard could be taken as a sign they were guarding a Targaryen heir (i.e. the pregnant Lyanna).

4. The dying Lyanna kept demanding that Ned swear a promise to her. “Promise me, Ned.” If she just gave birth to a Targaryen heir and that fact became public knowledge, the child would almost certainly be killed. Lyanna may have wanted Ned to promise never to reveal Jon’s true parentage.

5. Lyanna is strongly associated with blue winter roses. When Ned finds her dying, she is surrounded by blue roses. One of the visions Dany sees in the house of the Undying is: “A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness.” The wall of ice is the Wall, and the blue flower links Jon to Lyanna.

6. At one point in book 1, Ned is thinking of his children. He doesn't include Jon on his mental list. That could be a sign that Ned is not Jon's father.

7. Ned was a man who did the right thing regardless of the cost. It eventually cost him his life. Can it be believed that such a man not only fathered a bastard, but steadfastly refused to tell his wife who Jon’s mother was? Ned refused to tell Cat about Jon even though it was a hamper on his family and marriage. The only thing we know of that could have driven a man like Ned Stark to do that sort of thing is the promise Lyanna demanded he make.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby largegarlic on Mon May 21, 2012 8:05 pm

the wicked child wrote:
largegarlic wrote:Again, I'll preface this by saying that I haven't read the books, but...

Spoiler:
I didn't buy the release of Jaime by Catelyn. Even if she is worried about her daughters, she seems too savvy and sensible to just send him back with no firm plan for a prisoner exchange or anything. This seemed (along with the Theon betrayal) a poorly motivated plot line that just stems from Martin's desire to complicate the situation. Things would be plenty complicated even without these things happening.
Spoiler:
I believe in the books, she did this after learning that Bran and Rickon were dead. She kinda flew off the handle because she wanted her daughters back. Not sure why they changed that.


Thanks. That would make her actions make considerably more sense.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby the wicked child on Mon May 21, 2012 9:14 pm

Shyster wrote:
the wicked child wrote:I don't recall reading anything to that effect... I think it may just be conjecture.

Yes, it's just conjecture. There's a lot of circumstantial evidence, which includes:

[Contains big spoilers. Seriously I’m not kidding. If the TV show ever gets to this question, it could possibly ruin a huge surprise depending on how things turn out.]

Spoiler:
1. Arya and Jon are described as both having the traditional “Stark” appearance; Ned’s other children look more like the Tullys. When talking to Arya, Ned mentions that she looks a lot like Lyanna did at her age. So Jon looks like Arya who looks like Lyanna.

2. When Ned finally tracked down Lyanna (who had been kidnapped by Rhaegar), he had to kill multiple members of the Kingsguard who were guarding her. Only Ned and Howland Reed survived the fight. After the fight, Ned found Lyanna feverish and dying in a “bed of blood.” She could have been dying from compilations following childbirth.

3. Ned tracked down Lyanna and fought the Kingsguard after the war. Aerys and Rhaegar were dead at that point and Robert was on the Iron Throne. Why was the Kingsguard still guarding Lyanna? The presence of the Kingsguard could be taken as a sign they were guarding a Targaryen heir (i.e. the pregnant Lyanna).

4. The dying Lyanna kept demanding that Ned swear a promise to her. “Promise me, Ned.” If she just gave birth to a Targaryen heir and that fact became public knowledge, the child would almost certainly be killed. Lyanna may have wanted Ned to promise never to reveal Jon’s true parentage.

5. Lyanna is strongly associated with blue winter roses. When Ned finds her dying, she is surrounded by blue roses. One of the visions Dany sees in the house of the Undying is: “A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness.” The wall of ice is the Wall, and the blue flower links Jon to Lyanna.

6. At one point in book 1, Ned is thinking of his children. He doesn't include Jon on his mental list. That could be a sign that Ned is not Jon's father.

7. Ned was a man who did the right thing regardless of the cost. It eventually cost him his life. Can it be believed that such a man not only fathered a bastard, but steadfastly refused to tell his wife who Jon’s mother was? Ned refused to tell Cat about Jon even though it was a hamper on his family and marriage. The only thing we know of that could have driven a man like Ned Stark to do that sort of thing is the promise Lyanna demanded he make.

Very interesting... never really thought about any of that.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby Gaucho on Mon May 21, 2012 9:54 pm

I'm not supposed to like that fool Jon Snow, am I?
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby canaan on Mon May 21, 2012 9:55 pm

I like Jon Snow :(
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby the wicked child on Mon May 21, 2012 9:56 pm

http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/05/20/game- ... lackwater/

Interview with the writers about the challenges of bringing the battle of Blackwater to screen. Good that HBO caved because if they pulled another offscreen skirmish with this, it might have ruined the show for me.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby Gaucho on Mon May 21, 2012 10:01 pm

canaan wrote:I like Jon Snow :(


I'm not sure what it is, but something about him makes me want to punch the screen. Maybe it's because he looks like Owen Hargreaves. But probably not.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby Spangler on Tue May 22, 2012 2:02 am

I liked when Jaime Lannister mentioned that there are only 3 people he thinks has a chance of beating him in combat. It got me thinking... who would the 3 people be?

Barristan Selmy (I think this is a lock)
The Mountain?
The Hound?
Loras Tyrell?
The Red Viper?
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby Digitalgypsy66 on Tue May 22, 2012 8:32 am

Gaucho wrote:
canaan wrote:I like Jon Snow :(


I'm not sure what it is, but something about him makes me want to punch the screen. Maybe it's because he looks like Owen Hargreaves. But probably not.

He's one of my favorite characters in the books, not so much in the show so far. I really like the Night's Watch mythology; I wish Martin would do a series just on them.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby DelPen on Wed May 23, 2012 3:42 pm

Spangler wrote:I liked when Jaime Lannister mentioned that there are only 3 people he thinks has a chance of beating him in combat. It got me thinking... who would the 3 people be?

Barristan Selmy (I think this is a lock)
The Mountain?
The Hound?
Loras Tyrell?
The Red Viper?


The Mountain and Red Viper for sure. No idea on the 3rd. Loras got beat by Brienne and had to cheat to beat Gregor in the tournament in the first book.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby DelPen on Wed May 23, 2012 3:43 pm

Gaucho wrote:
canaan wrote:I like Jon Snow :(


I'm not sure what it is, but something about him makes me want to punch the screen. Maybe it's because he looks like Owen Hargreaves. But probably not.


This is defniately a low in Jon's story. But he does get more interesting.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby PensFanInDC on Wed May 23, 2012 9:30 pm

This is really just the beginning of Jon Snow's story. I'm really bummed that the season is going to end when his character is just starting to get going.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby DelPen on Sun May 27, 2012 1:14 pm

I don't understand why they changed Jon snows story so much. It flowed so much better in CoK. All the changes make for a duller story.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby the wicked child on Sun May 27, 2012 10:42 pm

Hell. Yes.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby DelPen on Sun May 27, 2012 10:46 pm

as good as the episode was the book was so much better...

Spoiler:
Wasn't the battle during the day? seem to remember it that way but understand the use of dark to mask the size.

I missed the giant chain, that added so much to Tyrion's plan to raise it up so an ship that wasn't burned was trapped.

And Stannis landed on the other side of the Bay and used wood from the ships to make a bridge, but this wasn't a bad change
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby canaan on Mon May 28, 2012 12:26 am

The wildfire was insanely well done
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby the wicked child on Mon May 28, 2012 7:50 am

DelPen wrote:as good as the episode was the book was so much better...

Spoiler:
Wasn't the battle during the day? seem to remember it that way but understand the use of dark to mask the size.

I missed the giant chain, that added so much to Tyrion's plan to raise it up so an ship that wasn't burned was trapped.

And Stannis landed on the other side of the Bay and used wood from the ships to make a bridge, but this wasn't a bad change

Yeah, they were forced to make a lot of changes to the battle due to money concerns. The writers talk about it here: http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/05/20/game- ... lackwater/

Still think they did a pretty awesome job.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby the wicked child on Mon May 28, 2012 7:50 am

canaan wrote:The wildfire was insanely well done

Indeed.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby Spangler on Mon May 28, 2012 11:49 am

That is how episodes should me made. Not this 3 minutes of each story at a time crap.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby Gaucho on Mon May 28, 2012 10:01 pm

I still don't care much for the over-the-top gory stuff. Is it supposed to impress or shock me? It's like (early) Tarantino without the irony, and thus just ludicrous and annoying and bad.
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