Rob Scuderi vs Paul Martin

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Rob Scuderi vs Paul Martin

Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Thu May 31, 2012 11:41 am

Watching Rob Scuderi in these playoffs makes me wish we had re-signed him when he was a FA instead of later signing Paul Martin. Scuderi's cap hit of $3.4M looks very manageable in hindsight now as opposed to Martin's hit of $5.5M.
Sam's Drunk Dog
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,693
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:31 pm
Location: Behind Enemy Lines

Re: Rob Scuderi vs Paul Martin

Postby sil on Thu May 31, 2012 11:52 am

Sam's Drunk Dog wrote:Watching Rob Scuderi in these playoffs makes me wish we had re-signed him when he was a FA instead of later signing Paul Martin. Scuderi's cap hit of $3.4M looks very manageable in hindsight now as opposed to Martin's hit of $5.5M.


Martin's cap hit is $5,000,000.

When Scuds hit UFA status, we had almost no cap space to sign him, or anyone else...both Malkin and Staal took over their on their second contracts that off-season. An increase of about $12,000,000 against the cap.
sil
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,829
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:05 pm
Location: the Juice Case manufacturing plant

Re: Rob Scuderi vs Paul Martin

Postby Defence21 on Thu May 31, 2012 11:56 am

His cap hit is very manageable...now. Problem is, they didn't have the money to sign him then, and his cap hit at the time was considered to be high. With hindsight, we have the knowledge that the cap is significantly higher now than it was then.

Would I love to have Scuderi now? Absolutely. Did I want him re-signed back then? Absolutely. Am I aware that it was next to impossible to retain him back then given the myriad of circumstance? Absolutely.

Hindsight is 20/20.
Defence21
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,799
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:01 pm
Location: Johnstown, PA

Re: Rob Scuderi vs Paul Martin

Postby meow on Thu May 31, 2012 11:59 am

If I remember correctly, I think Scuderi gave the Pens the chance to match any offer that he received. The cap prevent them from matching.
meow
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,863
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:02 pm
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Rob Scuderi vs Paul Martin

Postby darkstar57 on Thu May 31, 2012 12:20 pm

Ironically i think Scuderi would make a good partner for Martin
darkstar57
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,869
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:13 pm
Location: A flute with no holes, is not a flute. A donut with no hole, is a Danish

Re: Rob Scuderi vs Paul Martin

Postby Pitt87 on Thu May 31, 2012 12:44 pm

darkstar57 wrote:Ironically i think Scuderi would make a good partner for Martin


I think PMart should be Alex Picard's partner, but his NMC prevents it.
Pitt87
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,203
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:33 am
Location: Admin wrote:Rooting for the Flyers is not allowed here. Seriously.

Re: Rob Scuderi vs Paul Martin

Postby darkstar57 on Thu May 31, 2012 12:58 pm

Pitt87 wrote:
darkstar57 wrote:Ironically i think Scuderi would make a good partner for Martin


I think PMart should be Alex Picard's partner, but his NMC prevents it.


Is that Jean-Luc's nephew?
darkstar57
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,869
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:13 pm
Location: A flute with no holes, is not a flute. A donut with no hole, is a Danish

Re: Rob Scuderi vs Paul Martin

Postby Senka on Thu May 31, 2012 1:01 pm

Lets start a petition, everyone sends in $1 somewhere. We'll buy him out. :lol:

PS: Everyone spoke so highly of Gill and Scuds, but only Scuds gets chat now. And Scudichar got bashed for how long? Just saying.
Senka
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,986
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:16 pm
Location: RVA

Re: Rob Scuderi vs Paul Martin

Postby Malkamaniac on Thu May 31, 2012 1:09 pm

We didn't have the cap room to re-sign scuds at the cost he was bought on the FA market for. Can't say that enough.
Malkamaniac
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 33,949
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:33 pm
Location: Who is Sims?

Re: Rob Scuderi vs Paul Martin

Postby DelPen on Thu May 31, 2012 1:18 pm

If they had signed Scuderi and someone cheap instead of Guerin and Fedotenko that would have worked:

Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis
Staal-Malkin-Kennedy
Cooke-Lestetu-Borque
Rupp-Talbot-Adams

Letang-Scuderi
Gonchar-Orpik
Eaton-Gogo

That would ahve all fit under the cap with no problem.
DelPen
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 33,210
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:27 am
Location: Lake Wylie, SC

Re: Rob Scuderi vs Paul Martin

Postby steelhammer on Thu May 31, 2012 1:28 pm

Malkamaniac wrote:We didn't have the cap room to re-sign scuds at the cost he was bought on the FA market for. Can't say that enough.


Perhaps the delicate genius Shero could have had some foresight and not let it come to the FA market in the first place? Then he doubled down losing a decent draft pick before overspending on the M&M connection.
steelhammer
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,279
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:31 am
Location: Hold on, I have a stat for that.

Re: Rob Scuderi vs Paul Martin

Postby shmenguin on Thu May 31, 2012 1:31 pm

scuderi is so damn impressive with LA. last night they even showed him on the bench doing some serious coaching towards dustin brown. at the time, i thought the contract LA was un-matchable. even if we could have fit it under the cap. but now...different story.
shmenguin
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 22,246
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:34 pm

Re: Rob Scuderi vs Paul Martin

Postby columbia on Thu May 31, 2012 1:34 pm

I don't know that anyone here thought that Scuds was worth $3.5M at the time.
columbia
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 45,424
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:13 am

Re: Rob Scuderi vs Paul Martin

Postby shmenguin on Thu May 31, 2012 1:35 pm

steelhammer wrote:
Malkamaniac wrote:We didn't have the cap room to re-sign scuds at the cost he was bought on the FA market for. Can't say that enough.


Perhaps the delicate genius Shero could have had some foresight and not let it come to the FA market in the first place? Then he doubled down losing a decent draft pick before overspending on the M&M connection.


that's a good point. scuderi's trajectory was very stable. he didn't have high peaks or low dips. RS should have had enough data to swoop in and lock him up at a discounted rate before a zillion people saw him in the finals and knew him as "the piece". it's possible scuderi wanted to test the market all along, but if not - i don't know why they wouldn't have tried to lock him up.
shmenguin
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 22,246
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:34 pm

Re: Rob Scuderi vs Paul Martin

Postby Digitalgypsy66 on Thu May 31, 2012 2:02 pm

columbia wrote:I don't know that anyone here thought that Scuds was worth $3.5M at the time.

Yeah, the sentiment was "Too high, but good luck in LA."
Digitalgypsy66
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 9,003
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:21 pm
Location: Roger Roger.

Re: Rob Scuderi vs Paul Martin

Postby Defence21 on Thu May 31, 2012 2:04 pm

Alternative point of view. Scuderi is succeeding in the defense-orientated Kings system -- similar to the way Martin succeeded in the defense-oriented Devils system and they way Michalek succeeded in the defense-oriented Coyotes system. I wonder how many here would be berating Shero for retaining Scuderi at that price if he was playing in Bylsma's offense-oriented system that doesn't favor immobile, one-dimensional defenders? Think the results would be the same as they are with Martin and Michalek?

It's real easy to see the green grass. It's not quite as easy to look at things in perspective.
Defence21
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,799
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:01 pm
Location: Johnstown, PA

Re: Rob Scuderi vs Paul Martin

Postby darkstar57 on Thu May 31, 2012 2:11 pm

Defence21 wrote:Alternative point of view. Scuderi is succeeding in the defense-orientated Kings system -- similar to the way Martin succeeded in the defense-oriented Devils system and they way Michalek succeeded in the defense-oriented Coyotes system. I wonder how many here would be berating Shero for retaining Scuderi at that price if he was playing in Bylsma's offense-oriented system that doesn't favor immobile, one-dimensional defenders? Think the results would be the same as they are with Martin and Michalek?

It's real easy to see the green grass. It's not quite as easy to look at things in perspective.


Very solid point, scuds wasn't exactly the best at getting the pucks to the forwards quickly
darkstar57
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,869
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:13 pm
Location: A flute with no holes, is not a flute. A donut with no hole, is a Danish

Re: Rob Scuderi vs Paul Martin

Postby Pavel Bure on Thu May 31, 2012 2:12 pm

Sooooo what was the cap when Scuds was a FA and how does his salay look when extrapolated by the percent the cap increased I bet his salary is very comparable with Martin's current salary.
Pavel Bure
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 13,184
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:15 pm
Location: http://freebitco.in/?r=289635 get bitcoins

Re: Rob Scuderi vs Paul Martin

Postby Defence21 on Thu May 31, 2012 2:13 pm

Here's a post from one of the most level-headed posters at LGP, Henry Hank, from July 2, 2009:
...I think that's a good signing for him. The Pens smartly can't match that. I would have liked to have Scuderi back, but not at the expense of a Gonchar or Letang after the season.
Defence21
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,799
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:01 pm
Location: Johnstown, PA

Re: Rob Scuderi vs Paul Martin

Postby Froggy on Thu May 31, 2012 2:24 pm

DelPen wrote:If they had signed Scuderi and someone cheap instead of Guerin and Fedotenko that would have worked:

Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis
Staal-Malkin-Kennedy
Cooke-Lestetu-Borque
Rupp-Talbot-Adams

Letang-Scuderi
Gonchar-Orpik
Eaton-Gogo

That would ahve all fit under the cap with no problem.


That lineup... It's so bad that it hurts my soul. You have Kennedy miscast as a scoring line winger, a 3rd line with the dynamic duo of letestu and bork, an overrated and aging Mark Eaton, and lady gogo still stinking up our back end.

Unless you are joking, then it is hilarious. Impossible to tell with you
Froggy
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,506
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:40 pm
Location: http://DrunkInAGraveyard.com

Re: Rob Scuderi vs Paul Martin

Postby shmenguin on Thu May 31, 2012 2:38 pm

Defence21 wrote:Alternative point of view. Scuderi is succeeding in the defense-orientated Kings system -- similar to the way Martin succeeded in the defense-oriented Devils system and they way Michalek succeeded in the defense-oriented Coyotes system. I wonder how many here would be berating Shero for retaining Scuderi at that price if he was playing in Bylsma's offense-oriented system that doesn't favor immobile, one-dimensional defenders? Think the results would be the same as they are with Martin and Michalek?

It's real easy to see the green grass. It's not quite as easy to look at things in perspective.


maybe. but that's only if you think that martin's mental mistakes are simply a result of him playing in a certain system. that doesn't jive with me. he was great in this system from january to march. he was terrible in october through december. i don't understand how you could reconcile his play during those 2 periods of time if the system is to blame.

martin and scuderi are pretty opposite. scuderi has limited skill and physical ability. martin has good skill and can skate well. scuderi is a meticulous player who specializes in simply making the "right" play. martin is too frequently the most careless player on the ice. so ultimately, i doubt they would look too similar on this team.
shmenguin
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 22,246
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:34 pm

Re: Rob Scuderi vs Paul Martin

Postby shmenguin on Thu May 31, 2012 2:40 pm

Froggy wrote:
DelPen wrote:If they had signed Scuderi and someone cheap instead of Guerin and Fedotenko that would have worked:

Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis
Staal-Malkin-Kennedy
Cooke-Lestetu-Borque
Rupp-Talbot-Adams

Letang-Scuderi
Gonchar-Orpik
Eaton-Gogo

That would ahve all fit under the cap with no problem.


That lineup... It's so bad that it hurts my soul. You have Kennedy miscast as a scoring line winger, a 3rd line with the dynamic duo of letestu and bork, an overrated and aging Mark Eaton, and lady gogo still stinking up our back end.

Unless you are joking, then it is hilarious. Impossible to tell with you


the counter to that is fedotenko and guerin were abysmal that year, so whoever they would be replaced with weren't going to make things much worse.
shmenguin
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 22,246
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:34 pm

Re: Rob Scuderi vs Paul Martin

Postby MRandall25 on Thu May 31, 2012 2:45 pm

shmenguin wrote:
Froggy wrote:
DelPen wrote:If they had signed Scuderi and someone cheap instead of Guerin and Fedotenko that would have worked:

Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis
Staal-Malkin-Kennedy
Cooke-Lestetu-Borque
Rupp-Talbot-Adams

Letang-Scuderi
Gonchar-Orpik
Eaton-Gogo

That would ahve all fit under the cap with no problem.


That lineup... It's so bad that it hurts my soul. You have Kennedy miscast as a scoring line winger, a 3rd line with the dynamic duo of letestu and bork, an overrated and aging Mark Eaton, and lady gogo still stinking up our back end.

Unless you are joking, then it is hilarious. Impossible to tell with you


the counter to that is fedotenko and guerin were abysmal that year, so whoever they would be replaced with weren't going to make things much worse.


Chris Bourque was pretty damn bad.
MRandall25
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,561
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:11 pm
Location: BOBROVSKY!!!

Re: Rob Scuderi vs Paul Martin

Postby Fire0nice228 on Thu May 31, 2012 2:53 pm

Would have been bad for one year then much better when GoGo was traded for Neal and the cap goes up making Scuds look like a steal
Fire0nice228
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,696
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:10 pm
Location: refs fault

Re: Rob Scuderi vs Paul Martin

Postby lemieuxReturns on Thu May 31, 2012 2:55 pm

Perhaps the delicate genius Shero could have had some foresight and not let it come to the FA market in the first place? Then he doubled down losing a decent draft pick before overspending on the M&M connection.


Exactly! It is a good GM's job to understand and reward a players worth before the entire league also realizes that players worth. Shero has screwed that up a few times for sure.
lemieuxReturns
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,113
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:00 pm

Next

Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Chirpin' Grinder, Dan H, Jim, mikey287 and 18 guests

e-mail