To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby no name on Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:26 pm

Setoguchi and Cutterbuck for Martin and Cooke or Kennedy???? Maybe throw in LoveJoy since they are thin on the blue line. We got 9 Dmen on the roster we got to drop another sometime.

Cutterbuck is kinda like a poor mans Kunitz, but kinda like Duper in a sence of can play top 6 minutes if need be but better suited for 3rd line duties. Cutterbuck can give you that nasty game Cooke used to play. I wouldn't want Cooke to revert back to his old ways, would like to see him keep playing like a credible 3rd liner.

I think our 4th line will rob he bank, we will trade anyone making overone million to suck up forth line minutes. Its always fun playing xbox GM...
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby sil on Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:03 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:I can't stomach playing a great 2 way player like Staal on wing.


It's probably either that, or stomach trading him. If he agrees to stick around long-term...he'll play both C and W...some top-6, but also on the third line to help create matchup issues. It's never as simple as 1st, 2nd, or 3rd line.
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:11 pm

sil wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:I can't stomach playing a great 2 way player like Staal on wing.


It's probably either that, or stomach trading him. If he agrees to stick around long-term...he'll play both C and W...some top-6, but also on the third line to help create matchup issues. It's never as simple as 1st, 2nd, or 3rd line.


He's a C and the best defensive center on the team. I can stomach a Staal trade for a wing more than I can playing Staal at wing.
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby sil on Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:13 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
sil wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:I can't stomach playing a great 2 way player like Staal on wing.


It's probably either that, or stomach trading him. If he agrees to stick around long-term...he'll play both C and W...some top-6, but also on the third line to help create matchup issues. It's never as simple as 1st, 2nd, or 3rd line.


He's a C and the best defensive center on the team. I can stomach a Staal trade for a wing more than I can playing Staal at wing.


He can still be a great two-way player and play both C and W.
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:17 pm

sil wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
sil wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:I can't stomach playing a great 2 way player like Staal on wing.


It's probably either that, or stomach trading him. If he agrees to stick around long-term...he'll play both C and W...some top-6, but also on the third line to help create matchup issues. It's never as simple as 1st, 2nd, or 3rd line.


He's a C and the best defensive center on the team. I can stomach a Staal trade for a wing more than I can playing Staal at wing.


He can still be a great two-way player and play both C and W.



There is no reason to play Staal at wing if he's the 2nd line center. Malkin and Crosby need to be playing together on the top line.
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby MRandall25 on Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:18 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
There is no reason to play Staal at wing if he's the 2nd line center. Malkin and Crosby need to be playing together on the top line.


And how has that worked out on the PP (or any time, really)?

Crosby and Staal (in some combination) is much more effective than Crosby and Malkin on the same line.
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:21 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
There is no reason to play Staal at wing if he's the 2nd line center. Malkin and Crosby need to be playing together on the top line.


And how has that worked out on the PP (or any time, really)?

Crosby and Staal (in some combination) is much more effective than Crosby and Malkin on the same line.


I'd blame the lack of PP success on the unit not having a true QB. What was the PP clicking at the season of the Cup run when Gonchar was playing great on the point?
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:23 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
There is no reason to play Staal at wing if he's the 2nd line center. Malkin and Crosby need to be playing together on the top line.


And how has that worked out on the PP (or any time, really)?

Crosby and Staal (in some combination) is much more effective than Crosby and Malkin on the same line.


That's really not true. I can recall countless times how Malkin and Sid playing together at ES and lighting it up.

The PP is different story because it's not just the dynamic of Sid and Gino at play, it's the whole make-up.

That being said, I'd rather see Staal with either Malkin or Sid, not vice-versa. I think you're spreading things out better when Sid and Malkin are NOT together, it gives teams a much harder time to match up.
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:25 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
There is no reason to play Staal at wing if he's the 2nd line center. Malkin and Crosby need to be playing together on the top line.


And how has that worked out on the PP (or any time, really)?

Crosby and Staal (in some combination) is much more effective than Crosby and Malkin on the same line.


I'd blame the lack of PP success on the unit not having a true QB. What was the PP clicking at the season of the Cup run when Gonchar was playing great on the point?


I think it's the opposite. I think we have too many QBs out there. I know you specifically mean a D at the point, but I think there's too many leaders on the ice. I think Letang is good as a PP QB, but he's got Malkin and Sid out there and of course you have to give the puck to them. There should just be two out of the three.
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:27 pm

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:I think it's the opposite. I think we have too many QBs out there. I know you specifically mean a D at the point, but I think there's too many leaders on the ice. I think Letang is good as a PP QB, but he's got Malkin and Sid out there and of course you have to give the puck to them. There should just be two out of the three.


Completely disagree. Teams had to defend the Gonchar shot from the point as well as the one time pass he would setup.

Letang can't hit the net and doesn't have the vision Gonchar did. Teams can pinch to the boards much more with Letang has PP QB
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:28 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
Hugo Stiglitz wrote:I think it's the opposite. I think we have too many QBs out there. I know you specifically mean a D at the point, but I think there's too many leaders on the ice. I think Letang is good as a PP QB, but he's got Malkin and Sid out there and of course you have to give the puck to them. There should just be two out of the three.


Completely disagree. Teams had to defend the Gonchar shot from the point as well as the one time pass he would setup.

Letang can't hit the net and doesn't have the vision Gonchar did. Teams can pinch to the boards much more with Letang has PP QB


I'll look up out PP stats when gonchar was here, but I remember even then that we had plenty of PP woes.

EDIT:
08-09 Regular Season: 17.2% Post season 20.6%

Better the year before, so obviously I'll concede my point when Gonchar was here lol.

I still think that there is too much pressure to keep the puck with both Sid and Gino. I don't think they need to be separated, but I think they need to really lay down the law and tell guys like Letang to lead rather than look for the other guys.
Last edited by Hugo Stiglitz on Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby MRandall25 on Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:31 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
There is no reason to play Staal at wing if he's the 2nd line center. Malkin and Crosby need to be playing together on the top line.


And how has that worked out on the PP (or any time, really)?

Crosby and Staal (in some combination) is much more effective than Crosby and Malkin on the same line.


I'd blame the lack of PP success on the unit not having a true QB. What was the PP clicking at the season of the Cup run when Gonchar was playing great on the point?


OK, but that still doesn't really cover putting them on the same line even-strength.

I can distinctly recall last season (2010-2011) where Crosby went like 8 games without a shot because he was too busy trying to set Malkin up.

Point is, you're putting too many eggs in the basket with Sid and Geno on the same line. Yes, they're 2 of the best in the league, but if they don't score/produce, what do you have? Staal and pretty much nothing. The team as a whole would work much better if Sid and Geno had their own lines. Otherwise, I still think you get what we have on the powerplay. Too much Sid trying to set Geno up and vice versa instead of trying to put the puck on net.

It's different if one of them is with Staal, because Staal not only provides the two-way play, but he's not going to try to upstage Sid or Geno or get too fancy.
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby shmenguin on Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:41 pm

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
There is no reason to play Staal at wing if he's the 2nd line center. Malkin and Crosby need to be playing together on the top line.


And how has that worked out on the PP (or any time, really)?


That's really not true. I can recall countless times how Malkin and Sid playing together at ES and lighting it up.


they have a clear history of playing well together at even strength. i'm not saying i think that should be the solution to the lineup, but i hate when people pretend that they aren't extremely productive when playing together.
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby MRandall25 on Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:49 pm

shmenguin wrote:
Hugo Stiglitz wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
There is no reason to play Staal at wing if he's the 2nd line center. Malkin and Crosby need to be playing together on the top line.


And how has that worked out on the PP (or any time, really)?


That's really not true. I can recall countless times how Malkin and Sid playing together at ES and lighting it up.


they have a clear history of playing well together at even strength. i'm not saying i think that should be the solution to the lineup, but i hate when people pretend that they aren't extremely productive when playing together.


But my main point is still there: they play better on separate lines.
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby shmenguin on Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:51 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
Hugo Stiglitz wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
There is no reason to play Staal at wing if he's the 2nd line center. Malkin and Crosby need to be playing together on the top line.


And how has that worked out on the PP (or any time, really)?


That's really not true. I can recall countless times how Malkin and Sid playing together at ES and lighting it up.


they have a clear history of playing well together at even strength. i'm not saying i think that should be the solution to the lineup, but i hate when people pretend that they aren't extremely productive when playing together.


But my main point is still there: they play better on separate lines.


that's not necessarily true. sure, the overall team is better when they're on separate lines, but they both play fine when put together. their PPG is probably just as high as when they're split up - if not higher.
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby DelPen on Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:02 pm

Neal-Staal-Malkin
Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis

What's the issue?
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby penny lane on Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:33 pm

DelPen wrote:Neal-Staal-Malkin
Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis

What's the issue?


Jordan is 98 places behind Evgeni in scoring. Plus, Geno just got good- 47.1 % on face offs. I loved the line of neal-gene-kunitz. Unless, coach dan will allow for evgeni to be at wing , but play on the ice as a center.
Mario often did the same with francis.
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:31 pm

The reason I lean toward Staal centering Sid and not Malkin is that Malkin is on a successful line, one of the highest scoring in the league. While Sid also had an excellent line with Dupuis and Kunitz, this line is far more effective. So without Kunitz, place Staal on Sid's line. Sid is still returning to form. While he has plenty of time to heal now, obviously, it's still playing games that will get him to adjust and return to his high level of play. Sid playing wing allows him to take a little burden off and concentrate on either getting his scoring touch back, or becoming a set-up guy for Staal. Let Staal take the brunt of role on that line.

Staal is a better defensive player that Sid, and that role is better served at center than wing. Sid's abilities can be served from Center or Wing.
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby KG on Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:02 am

Islanders are reportedly shopping for a top 4 d man. They offered Martin more money when he was a UFA a few years back....

If the Pens decide to deal him, they will be able too...
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby KG on Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:20 am

Shero needs to get back to bringing in players that make the team tougher/harder to play against.

The defense lacks physicality. The overall size of the team in height and weight was one of the smallest in the league this year, if not the smallest. Shero always prided himself on making this team gritty and tough to play against. He strayed from that the past few years.

Seeing the Kings this year and Boston last year both winning the cup I think Shero will have to change his philosophy again as they were two of the biggest, grittiest teams to play against.

This post season obviously shows that winning in the playoffs vs. the regular season are two very different things...
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby pens_CT on Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:41 am

KG wrote:Shero needs to get back to bringing in players that make the team tougher/harder to play against.

The defense lacks physicality. The overall size of the team in height and weight was one of the smallest in the league this year, if not the smallest. Shero always prided himself on making this team gritty and tough to play against. He strayed from that the past few years.

Seeing the Kings this year and Boston last year both winning the cup I think Shero will have to change his philosophy again as they were two of the biggest, grittiest teams to play against.

This post season obviously shows that winning in the playoffs vs. the regular season are two very different things...

Its more than what you describe. If the Pens had average, just average goaltending, they beat the Flyers in that first round. If they played with a small amount of defensive discipline they also win that series. Look at some of the names on that Stanley Cup team: Sykora, Fedotenko, Satan, Talbot, Scuderi, Gonchar. None of them had any physicality that would scare an opponent. The only defender that had size was Gill, and while his size helped on the PK, he was far from a physical force.
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby bhaw on Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:39 am

Not sure which of the threads to post this in so here:

http://spectorshockey.net/blog/sunday-n ... e-17-2012/

Mentions Isles as possible trade partner for the Pens in regards to Martin or Michalek. Obviously the NMC would be an issue but worth pointing out as a team that NEEDS defense, has room to spend, and actually has assets to part with if they choose.

Not posting b/c I believe it, but I'm posting just b/c I saw it and decided to share.
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby columbia on Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:43 am

Shero will have plenty of suitors for either of them, if he chooses to think in that direction.
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby pcm on Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:12 pm

Again, no one knows the details of Martin's NTC, and I'd assume he'd axe a trade to the Isle, but Martin for Okposo?
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby penny lane on Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:26 pm

I don't know that Paul Martin has any long-standing ties to the penguins. He may feel he can be more his style defenseman; regain his reputation, with a different team.
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