NHL plans to take control of the Devils

Forum for hockey posts that are not Penguins-related.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

NHL plans to take control of the Devils

Postby llipgh2 on Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:04 am

If Vanderbeek fails to resolve his money issues.

In addition to the Coyotes, the NHL would now "own" the Devils. I don't know law, but why isn't a league owning 2 teams a conflict of interest?

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/owner_be_damned_XgXuEUTpV1Ek0Xc8rl9MdI

Oh, and this would make Bettman a "Devil's advocate"... :twisted:
llipgh2
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 10,900
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:29 pm
Location: Gasp! The Clamboni!

Re: NHL plans to take control of the Devils

Postby Pavel Bure on Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:07 am

They need to accept the facts of needing to downsize the league. Southern markets really aren't viable for hockey. It almost worked in Dallas, but almost isn't actually working. They need to either 1. move the teams to more viable locations or 2. downsize the league a couple teams. The NBA has done this and had success, the NHL should follow.
Pavel Bure
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,229
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:15 pm
Location: http://freebitco.in/?r=770437 BITCOINS get them

Re: NHL plans to take control of the Devils

Postby mikey287 on Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:40 am

I think that Russian investor that owns the net (name escapes me), is going to sweep in and fix this...or at least aid in the fixing of it...the Post is historically anti-Devils...
mikey287
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,501
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:40 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA - @MichaelFarkasHF

Re: NHL plans to take control of the Devils

Postby newarenanow on Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:44 am

Hopefully all works out for them. While I hate them, the Devils have had success on the ice and deserve better.
newarenanow
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 41,624
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:56 pm

Re: NHL plans to take control of the Devils

Postby newarenanow on Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:47 am

Pavel Bure wrote:They need to accept the facts of needing to downsize the league. Southern markets really aren't viable for hockey. It almost worked in Dallas, but almost isn't actually working. They need to either 1. move the teams to more viable locations or 2. downsize the league a couple teams. The NBA has done this and had success, the NHL should follow.


I disagree about downsizing the league. I think it's at a good number.

As for southern markets, it takes decades to develop a root fanbase, and also winning (which doesn't happen early with new teams for the most part) helps as well. I think the league has done the right thing spreading hockey into new markets. The sport would not grow unless you have done otherwise.

I don't know how Dallas has failed? Tampa tyically does ok. The Panthers have shown if they win, they can get some support. The issue is, they haven't had a team make the playoffs in like 12 years and haven't won a series in 15.

The Devils are "northern" and are having issues. Ottawa had financial issues. And so did our very own Penguins.
newarenanow
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 41,624
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:56 pm

Re: NHL plans to take control of the Devils

Postby Rylan on Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:51 am

Dallas had historically been one of the best attended teams in hockey. It has just been recently that they have slipped in their attendance numbers. Personally, 26-28 teams is more than enough for the league, but I am also quite happy with 30. It just would look terrible if the league had teams fold, something that hasn't happened in nearly 30 years.
Rylan
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,057
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:07 am
Location: Dead and Without Love

Re: NHL plans to take control of the Devils

Postby JS© on Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:13 am

Pavel Bure wrote:They need to accept the facts of needing to downsize the league. Southern markets really aren't viable for hockey.


except that Tampa, Carolina, Nashvillle, and even Florida all outdrew New Jersey this year.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance
JS©
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 20,779
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:52 am
Location: hooray for me

Re: NHL plans to take control of the Devils

Postby Pavel Bure on Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:31 am

New Jersey AND the Islanders are in the New York market which clearly can't support 3 teams. It's the Rangers and that's it. I didn't know I had to state that.
Pavel Bure
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,229
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:15 pm
Location: http://freebitco.in/?r=770437 BITCOINS get them

Re: NHL plans to take control of the Devils

Postby shmenguin on Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:33 am

Pavel Bure wrote:downsize the league a couple teams. The NBA has done this and had success, the NHL should follow.


when was the last time the NBA downsized? has it ever even happened once?
shmenguin
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 23,185
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:34 pm

Re: NHL plans to take control of the Devils

Postby llipgh2 on Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:40 am

Devils to Quebec. :pop:
llipgh2
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 10,900
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:29 pm
Location: Gasp! The Clamboni!

Re: NHL plans to take control of the Devils

Postby Headshot77 on Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:51 am

Pavel Bure wrote:New Jersey AND the Islanders are in the New York market which clearly can't support 3 teams. It's the Rangers and that's it. I didn't know I had to state that.

The Islanders have to go. Simple as that. I would also suggest the blue jackets folding (they are very close to Detroit, most hockey fans would rather cheer for the more successful team). Also, the Islanders and Blue Jackets are two of the bottom 4 teams in terms of fan attendance.
Headshot77
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 470
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:02 am

Re: NHL plans to take control of the Devils

Postby mikey287 on Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:09 pm

Contraction is not an option, of course. The league can't knowingly break its own momentum by having a big market like LA win the Cup, Boston before that, Chicago (vs. Philly) before that, Crosby before that and this purported "HockeyTown" before that and then go and contract teams going into a potential labor dispute...nothing looks worse than contraction...

Look at the NBA and what a big floppy pair of clown shoes it is...any team that goes on a 7 game losing streak is moved to Oklahoma City or Memphis...it wasn't until this year that I found out the Thunder was the name of a WNBA team...

You can't go into a labor dispute with the players and start the proceedings with "we're taking away with 50 of your jobs" and then demand further contractions...
mikey287
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,501
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:40 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA - @MichaelFarkasHF

Re: NHL plans to take control of the Devils

Postby Pavel Bure on Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:31 pm

Would you agree some teams need moved due to money issues though? The league owning teams isn't good. Heck the NBA owns a team and can't seem to give it away.
Pavel Bure
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,229
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:15 pm
Location: http://freebitco.in/?r=770437 BITCOINS get them

Re: NHL plans to take control of the Devils

Postby Sarcastic on Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:34 pm

I don't want to see Isles or Devils move anywhere. I'm in the nj/nyc area and I've always had these teams and it would be too weird if one of them was gone all of a sudden. I think that Isles' problems started long ago with Milbury and all those bad trades he made. The owner made bad decisions. And they've had a really bad team all this time and I think that is the main reason why they aren't taken too seriously or why they suffer from low attendance. They need a smarter owner and a GM, first and foremost.

some interesting attendance stats

http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance
http://newyorkislandersadrift.blogspot.com/2012/01/14500-seat-arena-may-just-be-right-size.html
Sarcastic
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,283
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:49 pm

Re: NHL plans to take control of the Devils

Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:41 pm

The Isles need a new building. It's not gonna happen in Nassau. So they're going to have to find another city on the island or move outside of NY since the Brooklyn arena wasn't built to properly accomadate hockey.
Sam's Drunk Dog
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 19,676
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:31 pm
Location: Behind Enemy Lines

Re: NHL plans to take control of the Devils

Postby newarenanow on Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:58 pm

Pavel Bure wrote:Would you agree some teams need moved due to money issues though? The league owning teams isn't good. Heck the NBA owns a team and can't seem to give it away.


I think you need to exhaust every option before you move any team.

The Isles need a new building.

Devils need more responsible ownership.

What are your thoughts on the Pens moving since the organization has declared bankruptcy twice and had the worst attendance in the league when we weren't making the playoffs?
newarenanow
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 41,624
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:56 pm

Re: NHL plans to take control of the Devils

Postby mikey287 on Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:06 pm

Pavel Bure wrote:Would you agree some teams need moved due to money issues though? The league owning teams isn't good. Heck the NBA owns a team and can't seem to give it away.


I would agree that some teams might need to be moved. But if we moved teams that lost money, we wouldn't have any home games in this league. The Devils got into trouble with their arena, other than that, they appear to ok financially...they had an investor get out of it, now they need someone...VanderBeek wants someone to contribute as much as him and still allow him to control what's going on...tough sell...

"You want to invest $100 million in hockey team?"
- You bet I do!
"You want to own 47% of the team?"
- You bet I do!
"You want to let me retain complete control and you have almost no say whatsoever?"
- You bet...ter find somebody else...

I mean, the Devils just didn't generate the revenue they thought they would by owning their new arena. In this economy, in that ****-factory called Newark, it became very difficult...

There's only so much you can do with moving teams around...

Adding a team to the SE Ontario doesn't add X amount of hockey fans, it just takes away from the Toronto or (longshot) Ottawa or Detroit market...does adding a Quebec team add fans? Maybe, maybe not. Are we sure it just doesn't take Montreal fans or Boston fans from the pot (Maritime provinces have a lot of ties to Boston, AIUI)?

You have to be careful. The league has only had one team move in the last 15 years, IIRC. Atlanta to Winnipeg. In that same time, they've expanded from 26 to 30. If you're going to have a "moving sale", I say get it out of the way all in one basic time (like 1995-1997) and get it done with...but they have to go to real sturdy locations...moving Columbus to Kansas City doesn't alleviate fears for me, it just creates a bastard franchise...
mikey287
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,501
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:40 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA - @MichaelFarkasHF

Re: NHL plans to take control of the Devils

Postby no name on Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:35 pm

Down sizing the league makes the most sence. Just cause a city has the more people than most doesn't mean its the best city to move to. Loook at Winnipeg, not alot of people but tons and tons of hockey fans. Miami, Arizona Atlanta, tons of people, not alot fo hockey fans. Hockey is a nitch sport and might always be that, but it has places it will thrive in.
no name
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,113
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:19 pm

Re: NHL plans to take control of the Devils

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:49 pm

no name wrote:Down sizing the league makes the most sence. Just cause a city has the more people than most doesn't mean its the best city to move to. Loook at Winnipeg, not alot of people but tons and tons of hockey fans. Miami, Arizona Atlanta, tons of people, not alot fo hockey fans. Hockey is a nitch sport and might always be that, but it has places it will thrive in.


Florida, Tampa, Carolina, Nashville...

All had better attendance numbers than New Jersey, Colorado, Winnipeg (attendance #, not percentage). This whole "Hockey doesn't work in the south" is horse****
MRandall25
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,942
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:11 pm
Location: BOBROVSKY!!!

Re: NHL plans to take control of the Devils

Postby newarenanow on Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:31 pm

no name wrote:Down sizing the league makes the most sence. Just cause a city has the more people than most doesn't mean its the best city to move to. Loook at Winnipeg, not alot of people but tons and tons of hockey fans. Miami, Arizona Atlanta, tons of people, not alot fo hockey fans. Hockey is a nitch sport and might always be that, but it has places it will thrive in.


It didn't thrive in Winnipeg the first time around.

There are a lot more factors both for a franchise and for a league than the number of people that go through the gate.
newarenanow
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 41,624
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:56 pm

Re: NHL plans to take control of the Devils

Postby columbia on Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:35 pm

Montreal is technically on an island, so moving the NYI there is the obvious choice.
columbia
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 48,377
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:13 am
Location: If you don't have a seat at the table, you're probably on the menu.

Re: NHL plans to take control of the Devils

Postby newarenanow on Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:37 pm

I'd like to move a team to that little piece of Kentucky that is completely surrounded by Missouri.

Yes, I've been watching reruns of "How the States got Their Shape".
newarenanow
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 41,624
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:56 pm

Re: NHL plans to take control of the Devils

Postby mikey287 on Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:44 pm

newarenanow wrote:
no name wrote:Down sizing the league makes the most sence. Just cause a city has the more people than most doesn't mean its the best city to move to. Loook at Winnipeg, not alot of people but tons and tons of hockey fans. Miami, Arizona Atlanta, tons of people, not alot fo hockey fans. Hockey is a nitch sport and might always be that, but it has places it will thrive in.


It didn't thrive in Winnipeg the first time around.

There are a lot more factors both for a franchise and for a league than the number of people that go through the gate.


How much of Winnipeg's "not thriving" was dependent on the historically bad nature of the Canadian Dollar at the time?
mikey287
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,501
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:40 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA - @MichaelFarkasHF

Re: NHL plans to take control of the Devils

Postby newarenanow on Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:48 pm

mikey287 wrote:There are a lot more factors both for a franchise and for a league than the number of people that go through the gate.


How much of Winnipeg's "not thriving" was dependent on the historically bad nature of the Canadian Dollar at the time?[/quote]

I'd guess that was a big part of it. Hence why I said there are many factors in why a team thrives/doesn't thrive than how many fans attend the games.

Larger cities with more corporate support may be able to allow a team to weather the storm through a financial hardship nationally than a small city with little corporate support that depends tremendously on the fans.

Edit: Crap, screwed up the quotes.
newarenanow
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 41,624
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:56 pm

Re: NHL plans to take control of the Devils

Postby pfim on Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:43 pm

Not sure this is a market issue per se. Looks like more of a Vanderbeek issue.
pfim
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,789
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:35 am
Location: Sitting in front of my computer

Next

Return to NPR

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


e-mail