Where are my Gun Owners?

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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby tifosi77 on Wed May 30, 2012 2:44 am

As I near decision time on what pistol I buy, I find the comments about the care and feeding of your weapon to be very useful. [hint]Tips on choosing eye and hearing protection would also be welcome.[/hint] I also want to reiterate that I plan I getting a shotgun roughly on the same timescale as the pistol, and it will be the shotgun that will serve as the primary home defense weapon. I've just been focusing on the handguns in this thread, 1) because the thread title sort of precludes the notion of shotguns, and 2) my decision on which shotgun to buy is considerably more easy than the decision as to which pistol to buy. (Weatherby PA-459, in case you were wondering.)

Which leads me to what I fear might be an incredibly simplistic question; is it possible to clean a firearm too much? Not so much in the diminishing returns sense of the word, but more in the "you're-harming-the-weapon" sense of the word.

In addition to the above, I absolutely plan on taking as many proficiency classes as my budget will allow, and at least 300-500 rounds per month live fire practice. (Which isn't a whole lot, I know, but that's what I realistically think I can work with schedule-wise.) But what are some things that I can do in a dry-fire environment to improve both as a shooter and more generally as a gun owner?

Also, what sort of add-ons would you recommend for home defense weapons? I'm thinking of things like changes to sights, lights, lasers, red dots (for the shotgun), etc.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby ffemtreed on Wed May 30, 2012 7:19 am

Pen48guins wrote:
I really hope CCW changes in Maryland. Its the only reason I do not own a handgun yet.

Where are you at a FF at?



Md is really close to being forced to let law abiding citizens carry a firearm for self protection. There is a federal court case challenging MSP that we won but the judge stayed the decision pending appeal. The two parties had to file briefs with the Judge on why or why not the stay should be lifted, we are just waiting for his ruling. We are also waiting to see what the appellate court does with the case. The Second Amendment Foundation (SAF) (who is representing the plaintiff Raymond Wollard) has a fairly tight case, so as long as the appellate panel rules on the merits of the case we should be good to go soon.

I am semi retired from Firefighting since moving to Maryland 6 years ago, the local politics down here between the fire companies was even worse than it was in PA so i decided it wasn't worth the aggravation of dealing with all that non sense again. It was also a pain to transfer some of my credentials from PA to MD (EMT cert) and I would have had to take the whole class again because in MD you need some transition class to transfer but they NEVER offer the class. I still do participate in firefighting when I go back home to visit friends and relatives and do some of the grant writing for them while living in MD.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby ffemtreed on Wed May 30, 2012 7:39 am

tifosi77 wrote:As I near decision time on what pistol I buy, I find the comments about the care and feeding of your weapon to be very useful. [hint]Tips on choosing eye and hearing protection would also be welcome.[/hint] I also want to reiterate that I plan I getting a shotgun roughly on the same timescale as the pistol, and it will be the shotgun that will serve as the primary home defense weapon. I've just been focusing on the handguns in this thread, 1) because the thread title sort of precludes the notion of shotguns, and 2) my decision on which shotgun to buy is considerably more easy than the decision as to which pistol to buy. (Weatherby PA-459, in case you were wondering.)

Which leads me to what I fear might be an incredibly simplistic question; is it possible to clean a firearm too much? Not so much in the diminishing returns sense of the word, but more in the "you're-harming-the-weapon" sense of the word.

In addition to the above, I absolutely plan on taking as many proficiency classes as my budget will allow, and at least 300-500 rounds per month live fire practice. (Which isn't a whole lot, I know, but that's what I realistically think I can work with schedule-wise.) But what are some things that I can do in a dry-fire environment to improve both as a shooter and more generally as a gun owner?

Also, what sort of add-ons would you recommend for home defense weapons? I'm thinking of things like changes to sights, lights, lasers, red dots (for the shotgun), etc.



Spend the money and get a good set of electronic ear muffs, they are worth every penny. Pretty much any pair of wrap around safety glasses will be good for eye protection.

As for a shotgun, I am not familiar with the weatherby, but the Remington 870 and Mossberg 500 are the two gold standards for pump home defense, get with an 18.5" barrel. I personally have a tuned up SAIGA 12 that I keep loaded with buckshot and slugs alternating.

As long as you do it properly there is no harm in cleaning your gun often, but you can easily over lube it and gunk it up, so make sure you get all the old lube off before putting new on. Some people clean the gun every time they shoot it, some clean it occasional and some rarely clean them. I clean my pistols about every 300 - 500 rounds, my shotguns get cleaned like every 4 months and my rifles usually get cleaned before I put them back into the safe. Word of caution, if you are shooting old surplus ammo clean the guns immediately after shooting because some of that ammo has corrosive primers that will eat the metal of your gun in very short order. The Russians used to piss down the barrel of their guns to rinse away the corrosive salts that the primers left.

As for classes, they are all pretty good. 300 to 500 rounds a month is a lot more than most people shoot. Once you get proficient with the normal two hand stance practice other things like shooting off hand, one handed and etc. Go to the range with a specific goal in mind. Just remember the basics sight alignment, sight picture and trigger control. Always remember to focus on the front sight, that is the biggest challenge for new shooters.

As for accessories, I am not a big fan of anything other than a flashlight for home defense. I am of the keep it as simple as possible. The less things to fumble with the better. All those buttons an switches tend to get in the way and are confusing in a high stress environment. unless you train with those things A LOT and use them in tactical situations they are more of a hindrance.

The best accessory I recommend is a UpLula magazine loader. That thing is awesome and really saves your thumbs. Best 25 bucks I spent.

A good training drill at home is make sure the gun is unloaded and NO live ammo in the room. Put a spent shell caseing on your slide and practice pulling the trigger and not allowing the shell casing to fall. You can graduate to smaller objects like balancing a coin and not letting that fall. If you buy snap caps you can also practice malfunction drills, Tap Rack and Assess should be second nature. Then you can practice holster draws and quick reloads as well. If you are going to CCW then getting the gun out of the holster safely and quickly is a skill you are going to need. you want that skill to become muscle memory so you don't even think about it.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby mac5155 on Wed May 30, 2012 8:18 am

I have an 870 express super mag and love it. never leaves my bedside unless I'm out slaying thunder chickens and crows. My buddy has a mossberg 500 tactical shotgun in camo color, and i'll be honest compared to my gun it feels cheap. The stock and pump are both plastic-y feeling and the telescoping stock is not very rigid. That said a pistol grip and camo are pretty awesome.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby ffemtreed on Wed May 30, 2012 10:02 am

mac5155 wrote:I have an 870 express super mag and love it. never leaves my bedside unless I'm out slaying thunder chickens and crows. My buddy has a mossberg 500 tactical shotgun in camo color, and i'll be honest compared to my gun it feels cheap. The stock and pump are both plastic-y feeling and the telescoping stock is not very rigid. That said a pistol grip and camo are pretty awesome.



The mossbergs are MUCH easier to work on at home and you can pretty much fix anything with them without a gun smith. Also the internals are made a little beefier than the 870. The mossberg has simple improvements like dual extractors and etc. If you can get a military model 500 do it!

The action on the 870 is a little smoother and does seem to have tighter tolerances so the gun at least feels like its made better.

I personally own the 870, but i don't use shotguns much so I haven't bothered to get the 500 yet, but if i had to do it again after using other peoples 500's I would get the 500.

I am working on a design with a class 3 dealer for a really short 500 with no stock and 8" barrel with a pistol grip and forward assist. If I can find a virgin 500 receiver that never had a stock on it I can avoid the $200 tax NFA SBS tax stamp and get away with the $5 AOW transfer tax stamp. Looking at 650 - 700 out the door pricing for a great home defense shotgun.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Shyster on Wed May 30, 2012 2:08 pm

Godric wrote:When do you normally clean your guns? Sometimes when I am watching a movie before I go to bed ill clean a weapon, I find it relaxing

I usually try to clean right after shooting, often before I leave the range. If not then, I'll clean as soon as I can. I usually do so on by back patio so I don't smell up the house.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Shyster on Wed May 30, 2012 2:36 pm

tifosi77 wrote:Which leads me to what I fear might be an incredibly simplistic question; is it possible to clean a firearm too much? Not so much in the diminishing returns sense of the word, but more in the "you're-harming-the-weapon" sense of the word.

The only way I could see over-cleaning be a problem would be if you are over-scrubbing with steel brushes or something like that. I generally let the chemicals do the work, and metal isn't going to be affected by that. You could also maybe lessen accuracy if you bang the cleaning rod around the crown of the muzzle, although that’s really only a problem for target-grade rifles.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby tifosi77 on Wed May 30, 2012 2:45 pm

Okay, now here's another question: traveling with a gun.

My wife and I travel to Las Vegas a couple times a year to see her father and mother-in-law. (Both of whom are awesome human beings, btw) Pops is an avid shooter, and we want to go to the range. I'd like to bring my own firearm for this, but that would mean traveling with the gun and dealing with TSA knuckleheads.

I know it would probably be a colossally stupid idea to pack the gun in a carry-on, but what about checked bags? Do I simply disclose the presence of the weapon to the ticketing/check-in personnel? What's the deal? If we drove back and forth, it would be much less of an issue. But after back-to-back trips that involved 8+ hr one-way transits - for what by rights should be about a five-hour drive at most - we decided we were never going to drive to Vegas again.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Godric on Wed May 30, 2012 3:12 pm

Tif get a mossberg
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Shyster on Wed May 30, 2012 3:36 pm

tifosi77 wrote:I know it would probably be a colossally stupid idea to pack the gun in a carry-on, but what about checked bags? Do I simply disclose the presence of the weapon to the ticketing/check-in personnel? What's the deal?

Firearms must be in checked luggage. They must be unloaded and placed in a sturdy, hard-sided, lockable case (either a case with a built-in lock or one that can take a keyed padlock). The case must be sturdy and cannot be something that could be easily pulled open. You must declare at the ticket counter that you are checking unloaded firearms. You will fill out a form that says the firearm is unloaded. That form will go inside the case, which you then lock again in front of the ticket agent. If you are taking ammunition as well, it needs to either be in the original packaging or be in a plastic or metal ammo box. No loose cartridges. Ammo can go in the same hard-side container as the gun, or you can use a separate hard-sided container. Ammunition needs to be packed securely so that it can’t move around.

Airlines may have their own rules in additio to federal law. If you do a search for “special items” or “special luggage” in conjunction with the name of your intended carrier, you should get their rules on firearms and similar items.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Shyster on Wed May 30, 2012 3:47 pm

Godric wrote:Tif get a mossberg

The Weatherby PA-459 is made under contract by a Turkish gun manufacturer. While I’m not going to knock that fact and it may be a great gun at a great price, I think I might be more inclined to go with a gun from a well-established manufacturer like Remington, Mossberg, or Benelli. That way, if something breaks I will almost certainly be assured of parts being available. Also, just about everyone makes accessories (stocks, shell holders, sights, etc.) to fit those common shotguns. I’m not sure about the Weatherby.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby mac5155 on Wed May 30, 2012 3:49 pm

Pretty certain FedEx will ship firearms too, but not certain. Might be less hassle.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Shyster on Wed May 30, 2012 4:27 pm

Speaking of shotguns, I really want a Kel-Tec KSG (http://keltecweapons.com/our-guns/shotguns/ksg/). 14+1 rounds of 2 3/4" 12 gauge in a gun only 26" long overall? Yes, please. Plus, it just looks bad-ass.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby ffemtreed on Wed May 30, 2012 4:46 pm

Shyster wrote:Speaking of shotguns, I really want a Kel-Tec KSG (http://keltecweapons.com/our-guns/shotguns/ksg/). 14+1 rounds of 2 3/4" 12 gauge in a gun only 26" long overall? Yes, please. Plus, it just looks bad-ass.


I drooled when I first saw it as well. I have heard they are having a lot of problems with them though which is why they are limiting production. I stopped waiting and got a Saiga 12 which has magazines for 10 or 12 rounds or you can get a 20 round drum. Plus its semi auto, it will shoot as fast as you can pull the trigger. They do need tuned for the ammo that you are going to run, but once its tuned they are good!
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby tifosi77 on Wed May 30, 2012 5:16 pm

One requirement I have with a shotgun is a pistol grip, as I just don't enjoy shooting shotguns with a conventional stock. So I have also been looking at the Mossberg 590 and 590 A1.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby ffemtreed on Wed May 30, 2012 5:58 pm

tifosi77 wrote:One requirement I have with a shotgun is a pistol grip, as I just don't enjoy shooting shotguns with a conventional stock. So I have also been looking at the Mossberg 590 and 590 A1.


Get the 590A1. Its the military/police upgraded model of the 590. Very Very nice gun.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Godric on Wed May 30, 2012 6:12 pm

Shyster wrote:Speaking of shotguns, I really want a Kel-Tec KSG (http://keltecweapons.com/our-guns/shotguns/ksg/). 14+1 rounds of 2 3/4" 12 gauge in a gun only 26" long overall? Yes, please. Plus, it just looks bad-ass.




Just remembered this. I figured you'd like it
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Shyster on Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:18 pm

mac5155 wrote:Pretty certain FedEx will ship firearms too, but not certain. Might be less hassle.

Long guns can be shipped via FedEx, UPS, or the U.S. Postal Service. It’s illegal, however, for anyone other than a FFL licensee to ship handguns by U.S. mail, so the only legal way to ship a handgun is by FedEx or UPS. I know that both of those companies have special requirements for guns. For example, I believe for UPS that you must choose from certain shipping methods (like UPS Next Day Air), and you must take the gun to one of their staffed Customer Centers in order to ship it. You can’t just take it to a UPS Store. The package must also require an adult signature on delivery. It’s almost unbelievable, but it could actually be less hassle to fly with the gun.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby mac5155 on Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:23 am

http://sport.woot.com/offers/smith-wesson-micro-90-led

Smith & Wesson SWMT9 Micro 90 Compact, Weapon Mountable, LED Light $37.99

Awesome price on a mountable LED light.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby DelPen on Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:06 am

Interesting fact: Bobby Holik is a spokesman for CZ USA. Anyone else have a CZ 2075 RAMI in .40 as their EDC?
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby pronovost19 on Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:19 pm

Springfield XDM 9 mm is my handgun of choice. But, I must admit, the Remington 870 12 gage is right besdie the bed.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Shyster on Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:21 pm

I haven’t paid much attention to CZ’s pistols, as my understanding is that they are traditional DA/SA in operation. I’ve come to prefer DAO and other guns with a single consistent trigger pull. Although some of the CZs can be carried cocked and locked, yes? On the other hand, I would like one of their CZ453 rifles with the single set trigger. I’d take mine in .17 HMR.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby tifosi77 on Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:56 pm

An actual question on the California Handgun Safety Certificate test:

Safety Rule Number Two is keep the gun pointed:
A. To the north.
B. In the safest possible direction.
C. Up.
D. Down.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Chefpatrick871 on Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:03 pm

Is it wrong that I want The Judge.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby ffemtreed on Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:19 pm

Chefpatrick871 wrote:Is it wrong that I want The Judge.


depends what you want it for. But in most cases yes its wrong to want it.
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