Tyler Kennedy

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby shmenguin on Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:17 pm

JoseCuervo wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
JaysTelestrator wrote:For me personally, I remember saying to myself last offseason "I really hope we can sign TK, he's valuable and still on the rise." And my thoughts this offseason are exactly why I made this post. So I believe he did not have the year we all wanted from him. I believe size is more crucial in that role, and something possibly Tangradi can even fill given TK is moved.


i think he's proven that his size has no impact on his abilities as a 3rd liner. there's about 4 years of evidence working against your theory.


I don't mind TK on the third line, but you could certainly argue that while his lack of size doesn't impact his abilities, it certainly impacts his durability playing a third line role.


that's a fair point. his injury record isn't good...though this year, i don't know if size contributed. maybe short players are more prone to concussions since their heads are closer to people's elbows and shoulders, but i don't know if there's any data to back that up. his leg injury was gnarly, and probably would have done more damage is his legs weren't as strong as they are - so i think his physique actually helped him in that one.

what bothers me (and this is independent of TK) is people insisting that size or grit had anything to do with our playoff loss. we were the grittier, tougher team in that series. i don't know how anyone thinks otherwise.
shmenguin
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 22,225
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:34 pm

Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby bh on Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:50 pm

shmenguin wrote:
JoseCuervo wrote:that's a fair point. his injury record isn't good...though this year, i don't know if size contributed. maybe short players are more prone to concussions since their heads are closer to people's elbows and shoulders, but i don't know if there's any data to back that up. his leg injury was gnarly, and probably would have done more damage is his legs weren't as strong as they are - so i think his physique actually helped him in that one.

what bothers me (and this is independent of TK) is people insisting that size or grit had anything to do with our playoff loss. we were the grittier, tougher team in that series. i don't know how anyone thinks otherwise.

And it's not like the New Jersey Devils are a big bruising gritty team. They made quick work of Philly. We just plain sucked. You can be bigger and still suck.
bh
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,483
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:48 am

Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby DelPen on Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:01 pm

at $2 million I'd at least expect him to kill penalties or be a contributor on a #2 PP. He is neither.
DelPen
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 33,203
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:27 am
Location: Lake Wylie, SC

Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby mikey287 on Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:05 pm

He makes below league average salary but yet is required, as a cylindrical peg, to be squeezed into the square hole of special teams?
mikey287
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,620
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:40 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA - @MichaelFarkasHF

Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby Froggy on Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:22 pm

Yeah, of all the criticisms of Kennedy, the "overpaid" one makes the least sense to me.
Froggy
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,497
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:40 pm
Location: http://DrunkInAGraveyard.com

Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby shmenguin on Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:30 pm

adams has been an amazing penalty killer over the years - practically making league minimum. it's a role that is independent of salary.
shmenguin
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 22,225
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:34 pm

Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby no name on Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:34 pm

Hummm... packaging Staal and Kennedy would get us a higher return. intresting.
no name
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,912
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:19 pm

Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:39 pm

Froggy wrote:Yeah, of all the criticisms of Kennedy, the "overpaid" one makes the least sense to me.


He is overpaid. You aren't going to find many people making more than $1 million that are strictly even strength players and don't specialize in faceoffs or something.
Idoit40fans
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 50,992
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:42 pm
Location: No Reading, No Research, Just Strong Opinions

Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby DelPen on Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:44 pm

mikey287 wrote:He makes below league average salary but yet is required, as a cylindrical peg, to be squeezed into the square hole of special teams?


No, that makes him a really good AHL player miscast as a 3rd line checking wing if he can't do anything else.
DelPen
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 33,203
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:27 am
Location: Lake Wylie, SC

Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby Froggy on Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:52 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:
Froggy wrote:Yeah, of all the criticisms of Kennedy, the "overpaid" one makes the least sense to me.


He is overpaid. You aren't going to find many people making more than $1 million that are strictly even strength players and don't specialize in faceoffs or something.


You aren't going to find too many players who are gonna put up 15 goals and 40 pts for less than 3-3.5 mil
Froggy
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,497
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:40 pm
Location: http://DrunkInAGraveyard.com

Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby mikey287 on Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:52 pm

He specializes in forechecking...?

Not trying to make excuses, just thinking, outloud, I guess Jason Chimera and Mason Raymond and Chad Larose probably feature similar TOI numbers and probably similar salaries...not really making a point, just throwing it out there...depending on your point of view, this could be a case of two (or four) wrongs not making a right...
mikey287
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,620
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:40 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA - @MichaelFarkasHF

Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby mikey287 on Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:54 pm

DelPen wrote:
mikey287 wrote:He makes below league average salary but yet is required, as a cylindrical peg, to be squeezed into the square hole of special teams?


No, that makes him a really good AHL player miscast as a 3rd line checking wing if he can't do anything else.


Why does his not being on special teams make him a non-NHL player? As I've liked to do recently, channeling my inner-Judge Judy: That's bologna, it doesn't make sense...
mikey287
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,620
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:40 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA - @MichaelFarkasHF

Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby columbia on Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:55 pm

Froggy wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:
Froggy wrote:Yeah, of all the criticisms of Kennedy, the "overpaid" one makes the least sense to me.


He is overpaid. You aren't going to find many people making more than $1 million that are strictly even strength players and don't specialize in faceoffs or something.


You aren't going to find too many players who are gonna put up 15 goals and 40 pts for less than 3-3.5 mil


Steve Sullivan, Matt Cooke and Pascal Dupuis come to mind immediately, all of whom make less than Kennedy.
columbia
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 45,384
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:13 am

Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:55 pm

Froggy wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:
Froggy wrote:Yeah, of all the criticisms of Kennedy, the "overpaid" one makes the least sense to me.


He is overpaid. You aren't going to find many people making more than $1 million that are strictly even strength players and don't specialize in faceoffs or something.


You aren't going to find too many players who are gonna put up 15 goals and 40 pts for less than 3-3.5 mil


The Penguins alone had 3 last year, not including Kennedy, all of whom played significant roles (as opposed to bit roles) on special teams...and I don't think any made more than him.
Idoit40fans
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 50,992
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:42 pm
Location: No Reading, No Research, Just Strong Opinions

Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby Froggy on Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:00 pm

columbia wrote:
Froggy wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:
Froggy wrote:Yeah, of all the criticisms of Kennedy, the "overpaid" one makes the least sense to me.


He is overpaid. You aren't going to find many people making more than $1 million that are strictly even strength players and don't specialize in faceoffs or something.


You aren't going to find too many players who are gonna put up 15 goals and 40 pts for less than 3-3.5 mil


Steve Sullivan, Matt Cooke and Pascal Dupuis come to mind immediately, all of whom make less than Kennedy.


Sullivan is an over the hill player who signed a low dollar 1 yr deal to stay in the league. dupuis waaaaaay overproduced his deal, but has never been consistent offensively. Cooke has off the ice issues that made him lucky to be in the league.


Kennedy was a 24 yr old ufa coming off a career year. Yeah, I guess I should have been more specific.
Froggy
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,497
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:40 pm
Location: http://DrunkInAGraveyard.com

Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:04 pm

Good qualifiers. Unfortunately, Dupuis has still met the requirements you set for as well as or better than Kennedy for each of the past 3 years. So thats still 1 such player on the Pittsburgh Penguins that not only puts up those numbers, but contributes on special teams and makes less than kennedy.
Idoit40fans
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 50,992
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:42 pm
Location: No Reading, No Research, Just Strong Opinions

Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby Froggy on Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:09 pm

ok. I still don't see how $2 mil is an overpayment. he's not going to get top unit pp time because James Neal is better than him. He's not gonna kill penalties because we have players better suited. just because Dupuis is out-performing his deal doesn't mean that's the benchmark for all other contracts
Froggy
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,497
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:40 pm
Location: http://DrunkInAGraveyard.com

Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby meow on Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:13 pm

Froggy wrote:ok. I still don't see how $2 mil is an overpayment. he's not going to get top unit pp time because James Neal is better than him. He's not gonna kill penalties because we have players better suited. just because Dupuis is out-performing his deal doesn't mean that's the benchmark for all other contracts

And when he did get PP time in 2010-11, he was 3rd on the team in PPPs. But let's just ignore that because it counters the current agrument.
meow
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,842
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:02 pm
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby mikey287 on Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:18 pm

Well, the no PK for TK thing has always been a strict coach's decision...they like his hustle, but don't trust his hockey sense to make the right plays anticipation wise...it's not a forecheck scenario either, so that's why he probably has less career minutes on the PK than Jordan Staal does per game...
mikey287
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,620
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:40 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA - @MichaelFarkasHF

Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:18 pm

meow wrote:
Froggy wrote:ok. I still don't see how $2 mil is an overpayment. he's not going to get top unit pp time because James Neal is better than him. He's not gonna kill penalties because we have players better suited. just because Dupuis is out-performing his deal doesn't mean that's the benchmark for all other contracts

And when he did get PP time in 2010-11, he was 3rd on the team in PPPs. But let's just ignore that because it counters the current agrument.


He isn't needed on the powerplay on this team. Even before Neal and Sullivan, he was only needed on the powerplay when half of the team was hurt. It was an indictment on the health of the team, not a compliment to his game.
Idoit40fans
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 50,992
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:42 pm
Location: No Reading, No Research, Just Strong Opinions

Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby meow on Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:20 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:
meow wrote:
Froggy wrote:ok. I still don't see how $2 mil is an overpayment. he's not going to get top unit pp time because James Neal is better than him. He's not gonna kill penalties because we have players better suited. just because Dupuis is out-performing his deal doesn't mean that's the benchmark for all other contracts

And when he did get PP time in 2010-11, he was 3rd on the team in PPPs. But let's just ignore that because it counters the current agrument.


He isn't needed on the powerplay on this team. Even before Neal and Sullivan, he was only needed on the powerplay when half of the team was hurt. It was an indictment on the current team situation, not a compliment to his game.

And he produced.
meow
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,842
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:02 pm
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:22 pm

meow wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:
meow wrote:
Froggy wrote:ok. I still don't see how $2 mil is an overpayment. he's not going to get top unit pp time because James Neal is better than him. He's not gonna kill penalties because we have players better suited. just because Dupuis is out-performing his deal doesn't mean that's the benchmark for all other contracts

And when he did get PP time in 2010-11, he was 3rd on the team in PPPs. But let's just ignore that because it counters the current agrument.


He isn't needed on the powerplay on this team. Even before Neal and Sullivan, he was only needed on the powerplay when half of the team was hurt. It was an indictment on the current team situation, not a compliment to his game.

And he produced.

2007–08 Phoenix Coyotes NHL 57 13 11 24 324
Idoit40fans
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 50,992
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:42 pm
Location: No Reading, No Research, Just Strong Opinions

Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby shmenguin on Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:29 pm

dupuis was worth a ton more money than he made last year. he's irrelevant to kennedy being overpaid or underpaid.
shmenguin
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 22,225
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:34 pm

Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby DelPen on Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:40 pm

I guess I don't understand why there is a thread about Tyler Kennedy.
DelPen
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 33,203
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:27 am
Location: Lake Wylie, SC

Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby shmenguin on Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:45 pm

DelPen wrote:I guess I don't understand why there is a thread about Tyler Kennedy.


me neither. there's nothing remarkable about him (good or bad) right now
shmenguin
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 22,225
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:34 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Pitt87, the wicked child and 23 guests

e-mail