Other D options besides Suter

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Other D options besides Suter

Postby SolidSnake on Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:19 am

If Suter signs elsewhere which could be the case and even if Shero keeps Martin, I don't think you can go into the season with Letang, Orpik, Martin, (Niskanen?) Lovejoy, Engelland because the D would be weaker then last season with Michalek gone. I don't know if Washington is gonna bring back Wideman but he would be the first I would go for. Or does Shero bring back former Pens Gill, Eaton, or Rozsival? there's not much out there this year in the D department, there's Kubina and Kuba but I wouldn't think either of them would be a good idea. If not any FA's, should Shero pull the trigger on a trade for a defenseman?
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Re: Other D options besides Suter

Postby ville5 on Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:19 am

Allen and Gill would be near top of list other than Suter.
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Re: Other D options besides Suter

Postby Bioshock on Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:53 am

ville5 wrote:Allen and Gill would be near top of list other than Suter.


For the way the game is going, i second this.
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Re: Other D options besides Suter

Postby DelPen on Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:52 am

While not likely it's not improbable that we can throw Morrow out there and he has a Calder Trophy season.
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Re: Other D options besides Suter

Postby tfrizz on Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:55 am

Bioshock wrote:
ville5 wrote:Allen and Gill would be near top of list other than Suter.


For the way the game is going, i second this.


Another guy out there, who could be a decent short-term stop gap, is Scott Hannan.
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Re: Other D options besides Suter

Postby pens_CT on Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:57 am

DelPen wrote:While not likely it's not improbable that we can throw Morrow out there and he has a Calder Trophy season.

From a cap prospective, Morrow in the NHL makes sense. Why burn a year of his entry level contract in WBS, if he is ready at the NHL level.
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Re: Other D options besides Suter

Postby tfrizz on Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:22 am

He's probably still a year or two away, but everyone seems to be forgetting the guy who just may be the best defenseman, defensively, in the system: Scott Harrington

IMO, he could have the biggest impact of any defensive prospect right now.
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Re: Other D options besides Suter

Postby no name on Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:32 am

The guy we got in the Staal deal Dumolin (sp) they said he might be NHL ready. They likened him to a Rob Scuderi type of defenceman. Though i wouldn't want to throw him out there as a rookie. But i would rather season him in the minors for atleast a year.
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Re: Other D options besides Suter

Postby Nizzy on Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:47 am

tfrizz wrote:He's probably still a year or two away, but everyone seems to be forgetting the guy who just may be the best defenseman, defensively, in the system: Scott Harrington

IMO, he could have the biggest impact of any defensive prospect right now.


Even over Despres? Even with the weekend finally ending still completely dumbfounded why we took 2 more defenseman. Really only option will be to trade them because if Harrington, Morrow, Despres are as good as everyone says there won't be room for most of these guys.

@OP I don't think Wideman is what we need. I still feel like we need to get bigger on defense with someone who can just stay back and play defense. Michalek was close to that, wish they gave him another year here. As for other D options there's not maybe great options.
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Re: Other D options besides Suter

Postby Nizzy on Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:50 am

no name wrote:The guy we got in the Staal deal Dumolin (sp) they said he might be NHL ready. They likened him to a Rob Scuderi type of defenceman. Though i wouldn't want to throw him out there as a rookie. But i would rather season him in the minors for atleast a year.


You hear the Scuderi name put out there so much. Not trying to get on you about it, just in general...

I don't know if people remember but at one point Melichar & Scuderi were the worth things on defense that I've ever seen in my life. People also say Strait is similiar to Scuderi. Strait, last year when he got some playing time, was LEVELS above scuderi. All around game. Now Scuderi just won a cup as a top pairing with Doughty. Strait & Dumoulin most likely will have much different paths and are already way better than Scuderi was at the same age. Scuderi's goign from scrub to #2 defenseman on cup winning teams don't happen often.
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Re: Other D options besides Suter

Postby steelhammer on Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:52 am

Morrow and Harrington would get torn to shreds in their own zone in the NHL next season. Additionally, Morrow's best asset is offense and that is not what the Pens are lacking on their team right now (they finished first in goals scored last season despite having Crosby for only 25% of the season). Bortuzzo & Strait are the most NHL-ready and no one else is close, save for Despres to a much lesser extent. Bortuzzo and Strait are not flashy, but they get the job done defensively which is exactly what the Pens need. Suter is a nice (and expensive) pipe dream, but realistic solutions already exist in our system.
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Re: Other D options besides Suter

Postby DelPen on Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:06 am

I still don't think trading Martin is contingent on signing Suter. Provided we get Parise to play with Sid and get a solid 12/13 forward to battle with Tangradi ont he 4th line with Vitale and Adams I would think the offense would be good enough to shield the defense early on.

I'm fine with this on defense:

Orpik-Niskaken
Letang-Despres
Bortuzzo-Strait
Engellend

Lovejoy can be a #8 if he's still here. Let's see what we have on defense and fix holes at the trade deadline.
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Re: Other D options besides Suter

Postby Nizzy on Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:16 am

steelhammer wrote:Morrow and Harrington would get torn to shreds in their own zone in the NHL next season. Additionally, Morrow's best asset is offense and that is not what the Pens are lacking on their team right now (they finished first in goals scored last season despite having Crosby for only 25% of the season). Bortuzzo & Strait are the most NHL-ready and no one else is close, save for Despres to a much lesser extent. Bortuzzo and Strait are not flashy, but they get the job done defensively which is exactly what the Pens need. Suter is a nice (and expensive) pipe dream, but realistic solutions already exist in our system.


And you have a realistic post. I think if we get a defenseman it will be at the deadline, even though right now I can't see any options that would be great. What do you think will happen?

I hope Shero doesn't lose Strait or Bortuzzo in Waivers. This is what I think will happen:

-Lovejoy will just get passed on the depth chart and be gone soon to some dumb team like the islanders.
-Despres might outplay Strait/Bortuzzo/Engelland and be the number 5/6 to start the year but they might keep him in the AHL to start the year to assure we don't lose out on Strait/Bortuzzo on waivers. This will give them some time to simply see who is better/maybe be the longer term option.
-I wouldn't mind stretches where if Martin is so bad again that you sit him over rookies. I know most of us don't like Martin but keeping him as the Veteran for the last 3 years of his deal might not be so bad. Once he's gone in 2-3 seasons there's a great chance Morrow/Harrington will be ready to go.
-I'm concerned by Niskanen going into the top 4 next year. I think part of the reason he looked good is because his roll in PGH was as dependant as he was in DAL.
-I really wanted to see a Letang - Michalek top pairing and Oprik - Martin american line pairing on line 2. I'm not sure if they ever gave those pairings a chance.

Just hard to see anyone making a serious cup run with 3 rookie defenseman in the lineup.

Letang Orpik
Martin Despres
Niskanen Strait
Bortuzzo
Engelland

no idea what to do.
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Re: Other D options besides Suter

Postby FallenHero96 on Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:23 am

It's kind of pointless to be picking D pairings now, at least 1 or 2 more D not named Letang are going to be gone soon I think. Especially if we get Suter, which is not the pipe dream people think it is, IMO.
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Re: Other D options besides Suter

Postby steelhammer on Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:28 am

Nizzy wrote:
steelhammer wrote:Morrow and Harrington would get torn to shreds in their own zone in the NHL next season. Additionally, Morrow's best asset is offense and that is not what the Pens are lacking on their team right now (they finished first in goals scored last season despite having Crosby for only 25% of the season). Bortuzzo & Strait are the most NHL-ready and no one else is close, save for Despres to a much lesser extent. Bortuzzo and Strait are not flashy, but they get the job done defensively which is exactly what the Pens need. Suter is a nice (and expensive) pipe dream, but realistic solutions already exist in our system.


And you have a realistic post. I think if we get a defenseman it will be at the deadline, even though right now I can't see any options that would be great. What do you think will happen?

I hope Shero doesn't lose Strait or Bortuzzo in Waivers. This is what I think will happen:

-Lovejoy will just get passed on the depth chart and be gone soon to some dumb team like the islanders.
-Despres might outplay Strait/Bortuzzo/Engelland and be the number 5/6 to start the year but they might keep him in the AHL to start the year to assure we don't lose out on Strait/Bortuzzo on waivers. This will give them some time to simply see who is better/maybe be the longer term option.
-I wouldn't mind stretches where if Martin is so bad again that you sit him over rookies. I know most of us don't like Martin but keeping him as the Veteran for the last 3 years of his deal might not be so bad. Once he's gone in 2-3 seasons there's a great chance Morrow/Harrington will be ready to go.
-I'm concerned by Niskanen going into the top 4 next year. I think part of the reason he looked good is because his roll in PGH was as dependant as he was in DAL.
-I really wanted to see a Letang - Michalek top pairing and Oprik - Martin american line pairing on line 2. I'm not sure if they ever gave those pairings a chance.

Just hard to see anyone making a serious cup run with 3 rookie defenseman in the lineup.

Letang Orpik
Martin Despres
Niskanen Strait
Bortuzzo
Engelland

no idea what to do.


I'm worried about Niskanen in the top 4 as well. Very worried. He needs to be paired with a total shutdown d-man for it to come close to working. I'm really not that worried about the Strait/Bortuzzo rookie status. If they were good enough to play in the playoffs, they are good enough to get a chance to play bottom pairing during the regular season at least. Their inexperience would worry me if they were the offensive-type, but that's not the case. These guys got here from making minimal mistakes in their own zone. It just sucks that they are both ready at the same time we would like to see what Despres can do.
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Re: Other D options besides Suter

Postby sil on Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:37 am

My guess is this. Shero will attempt to sign Suter, but Suter will opt to play in Detroit. Shero will then sign Bryan Allen to a 2 or 3 year deal, and Minnesota will call Shero asking for a trade for Martin. Not sure what we get in that deal, but Paul goes home to Minny.

Brian Dumoulin is more NHL-ready than pretty much any of our d-prospects sans Despres, and even that one could be debated after camp in September.

Prospect-wise, we really have a log-jam on D...which is also why I wouldn't be surprised to see Shero throw a sampler package of some of them (along with a high pick or two) for Bobby Ryan...though who knows if they'd accept the deal when Philly is always willing to sell more of their future?

On the fringe of the NHL...
Despres
Dumoulin
Bortuzzo
Strait

AHL...
Morrow
Sneep
Samuelsson
Grant

Junior's/College...a few years away
Harrington
McNeill
D'Agostino
Maatta
Pouliot

We've got depth to our depth's depth!
Last edited by sil on Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Other D options besides Suter

Postby Pavel Bure on Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:37 am

Cory Sarich.
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Re: Other D options besides Suter

Postby steelhammer on Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:45 am

sil wrote:My guess is this. Shero will attempt to sign Suter, but Suter will opt to play in Detroit. Shero will then sign Bryan Allen to a 2 or 3 year deal, and Minnesota will call Shero asking for a trade for Martin. Not sure what we get in that deal, but Paul goes home to Minny.

Brian Dumoulin is more NHL-ready than pretty much any of our d-prospects sans Despres, and even that one could be debated after camp in September.

Prospect-wise, we really have a log-jam on D...which is also why I wouldn't be surprised to see Shero throw a sampler package of some of them (along with a high pick or two) for Bobby Ryan...though who knows if they'd accept the deal when Philly is always willing to sell more of their future?

On the fringe of the NHL...
Despres
Dumoulin
Bortuzzo
Strait

AHL...
Morrow
Sneep
Samuelsson
Grant

Junior's/College...a few years away
Harrington
McNeill
D'Agostino
Maatta
Pouliot

We've got depth to our depth's depth!


How can you say that Dumoulin is more ready than Bortuzzo/Strait when:

1. Dumoulin is a couple years younger;
2. Has never played a pro game at any level;
3. Strait and Bortuzzo have significant AHL experience;
4. Strait and Bortuzzo have played NHL games, including playoff.

?!?!?
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Re: Other D options besides Suter

Postby Pens15 on Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:54 am

If we whiff on Suter, I'd just as soon keep Martin and go with Despres in the top 4, rather then overpay for the next tier of defense.
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Re: Other D options besides Suter

Postby Pitt87 on Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:06 am

DelPen wrote:I'm fine with this on defense:

Orpik-Niskaken
Letang-Despres
Bortuzzo-Strait
Engellend

Lovejoy can be a #8 if he's still here. Let's see what we have on defense and fix holes at the trade deadline.


Ryan Whitney is UFA next year... :scared:

Opportunities to sign players like Suter are fleeting. You can never tell what happens between now and the deadline. If this were to happen out of circumstance, it wouldn't end our chances before they began. But if you miss on Suter and hope you can reinforce at the deadline, you have to be sure you will get someone, and the best fit may not be available.

As Brian Metzer tweeted, you couldn't hope to get 87/71/18/9/58/20 on the same FANTASY team, let alone under the cap. Get everyone inked that you can, Ray.
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Re: Other D options besides Suter

Postby sil on Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:18 am

steelhammer wrote:How can you say that Dumoulin is more ready than Bortuzzo/Strait when:

1. Dumoulin is a couple years younger;
2. Has never played a pro game at any level;
3. Strait and Bortuzzo have significant AHL experience;
4. Strait and Bortuzzo have played NHL games, including playoff.

?!?!?


Easy, I can say it because it's my opinion :wink:

I've seen Dumoulin play...I really feel he's going to push his way ahead of Strait and Bortuzzo before camp ends. I may end up being wrong though...it's happened before.
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Re: Other D options besides Suter

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:19 am

Suter - Martin
Orpik - Whitney

Are these Pittsburgh Penguins lines or next US Olympic lines? :pop: :scared:
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Re: Other D options besides Suter

Postby sil on Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:20 am

Pitt87 wrote:
DelPen wrote:I'm fine with this on defense:

Orpik-Niskaken
Letang-Despres
Bortuzzo-Strait
Engellend

Lovejoy can be a #8 if he's still here. Let's see what we have on defense and fix holes at the trade deadline.


Ryan Whitney is UFA next year... :scared:

Opportunities to sign players like Suter are fleeting. You can never tell what happens between now and the deadline. If this were to happen out of circumstance, it wouldn't end our chances before they began. But if you miss on Suter and hope you can reinforce at the deadline, you have to be sure you will get someone, and the best fit may not be available.

As Brian Metzer tweeted, you couldn't hope to get 87/71/18/9/58/20 on the same FANTASY team, let alone under the cap. Get everyone inked that you can, Ray.


If, say, Shero signed Suter for a long term deal...that may actually push Letang out the door when his next contract comes-a-knockin. Letang compared to many defenders...that sucks. Letang compared to Suter...I'll take Suter.
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Re: Other D options besides Suter

Postby meow on Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:29 am

Pavel Bure wrote:Cory Sarich.

This x 100
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Re: Other D options besides Suter

Postby DelPen on Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:30 am

Not having Staal down the road means resigning Letang will not be an issue. Orpik might be a problem but at 34 it would be wise to elt him go provided these young guuys will be able to step in.

You need some consistancy, hopefully it will be Letang and Suter until 2020.
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