UFAs besides the top dogs?

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Re: UFAs besides the top dogs?

Postby ffemtreed on Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:16 pm

Sheriff66 wrote:Yeah, that's loopy, I would rather have Niskanen on the 2nd PP



Actually I have Letang and Gonchar on the 1st PP and Niskanen QBing the 2nd PP.

Letang is more of a shooter and good at finding the seems, whereas gonchar lugs the puck and setups up the PP. I think they would work good together on the 1st PP with Sid Malkin and Neal/ yet to be determined UFA.
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Re: UFAs besides the top dogs?

Postby Sheriff66 on Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:20 pm

ffemtreed wrote:
Sheriff66 wrote:Yeah, that's loopy, I would rather have Niskanen on the 2nd PP



Actually I have Letang and Gonchar on the 1st PP and Niskanen QBing the 2nd PP.

Letang is more of a shooter and good at finding the seems, whereas gonchar lugs the puck and setups up the PP. I think they would work good together on the 1st PP with Sid Malkin and Neal/ yet to be determined UFA.


Not at that price though
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Re: UFAs besides the top dogs?

Postby Pens4Life on Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:27 pm

yeah right,this team really doesnt need Gonchar no D game on defense..
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Re: UFAs besides the top dogs?

Postby MRandall25 on Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:32 pm

ffemtreed wrote:Its only for a year and then its off the books, if we have the cap space who cares how much we pay for him. Also take notice I qualified my post as "depending on what happens in FA". So gonchar might be plan C or D but I wouldn't let one year of his salary turn me away from someone who can help the team.


So you hate that we pay Paul Martin $5 mil for average to above average play for 20+ min/game (I'm assuming you hate since pretty much everyone does), but you want to pay Gonchar $5.5 mil for 5-6 minutes and powerplay time?

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
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Re: UFAs besides the top dogs?

Postby Chefpatrick871 on Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:53 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
ffemtreed wrote:Its only for a year and then its off the books, if we have the cap space who cares how much we pay for him. Also take notice I qualified my post as "depending on what happens in FA". So gonchar might be plan C or D but I wouldn't let one year of his salary turn me away from someone who can help the team.


So you hate that we pay Paul Martin $5 mil for average to above average play for 20+ min/game (I'm assuming you hate since pretty much everyone does), but you want to pay Gonchar $5.5 mil for 5-6 minutes and powerplay time?

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Hi welcome to lgp. Are you new here?? :)
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Re: UFAs besides the top dogs?

Postby MRandall25 on Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:59 pm

Chefpatrick871 wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
ffemtreed wrote:Its only for a year and then its off the books, if we have the cap space who cares how much we pay for him. Also take notice I qualified my post as "depending on what happens in FA". So gonchar might be plan C or D but I wouldn't let one year of his salary turn me away from someone who can help the team.


So you hate that we pay Paul Martin $5 mil for average to above average play for 20+ min/game (I'm assuming you hate since pretty much everyone does), but you want to pay Gonchar $5.5 mil for 5-6 minutes and powerplay time?

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Hi welcome to lgp. Are you new here?? :)


I mean, that makes even less sense than what normally goes on here...
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Re: UFAs besides the top dogs?

Postby AlexPKeaton on Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:03 pm

Gaucho wrote:You want to pay Gonchar 5.5 million to play 5-6 minutes and some PP time?


He is not the first option obviously, but is only a single season and unless we are signing someone big we will have plenty of cap room for it. It is a temporary measure until next season when a lot more UFAs are available and our prospects are 1 year closer. I have to think by next season we are going to have 1-2 prospects definitely ready for the NHL.
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Re: UFAs besides the top dogs?

Postby ffemtreed on Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:42 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
ffemtreed wrote:Its only for a year and then its off the books, if we have the cap space who cares how much we pay for him. Also take notice I qualified my post as "depending on what happens in FA". So gonchar might be plan C or D but I wouldn't let one year of his salary turn me away from someone who can help the team.


So you hate that we pay Paul Martin $5 mil for average to above average play for 20+ min/game (I'm assuming you hate since pretty much everyone does), but you want to pay Gonchar $5.5 mil for 5-6 minutes and powerplay time?

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.


Gonchar is off the books at the end of the year, Martin is on the hook for the next 3. Big difference!
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Re: UFAs besides the top dogs?

Postby ffemtreed on Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:43 pm

AlexPKeaton wrote:
Gaucho wrote:You want to pay Gonchar 5.5 million to play 5-6 minutes and some PP time?


He is not the first option obviously, but is only a single season and unless we are signing someone big we will have plenty of cap room for it. It is a temporary measure until next season when a lot more UFAs are available and our prospects are 1 year closer. I have to think by next season we are going to have 1-2 prospects definitely ready for the NHL.



At least someone gets it! Its not as crazy as it sounds.

Thank you
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Re: UFAs besides the top dogs?

Postby MRandall25 on Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:45 pm

ffemtreed wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
ffemtreed wrote:Its only for a year and then its off the books, if we have the cap space who cares how much we pay for him. Also take notice I qualified my post as "depending on what happens in FA". So gonchar might be plan C or D but I wouldn't let one year of his salary turn me away from someone who can help the team.


So you hate that we pay Paul Martin $5 mil for average to above average play for 20+ min/game (I'm assuming you hate since pretty much everyone does), but you want to pay Gonchar $5.5 mil for 5-6 minutes and powerplay time?

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.


Gonchar is off the books at the end of the year, Martin is on the hook for the next 3. Big difference!


No, not really.
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Re: UFAs besides the top dogs?

Postby ffemtreed on Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:50 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
ffemtreed wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
ffemtreed wrote:Its only for a year and then its off the books, if we have the cap space who cares how much we pay for him. Also take notice I qualified my post as "depending on what happens in FA". So gonchar might be plan C or D but I wouldn't let one year of his salary turn me away from someone who can help the team.


So you hate that we pay Paul Martin $5 mil for average to above average play for 20+ min/game (I'm assuming you hate since pretty much everyone does), but you want to pay Gonchar $5.5 mil for 5-6 minutes and powerplay time?

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.


Gonchar is off the books at the end of the year, Martin is on the hook for the next 3. Big difference!


No, not really.



So gonchar wouldn't be off the book after the next season???? He signed for 3 years in Boston and has played 2 of those years. Or don't you understand the difference between paying a stop gap player for 1 year instead of paying for one for the next 3 years in Martin?
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Re: UFAs besides the top dogs?

Postby MRandall25 on Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:54 pm

ffemtreed wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
ffemtreed wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
ffemtreed wrote:Its only for a year and then its off the books, if we have the cap space who cares how much we pay for him. Also take notice I qualified my post as "depending on what happens in FA". So gonchar might be plan C or D but I wouldn't let one year of his salary turn me away from someone who can help the team.


So you hate that we pay Paul Martin $5 mil for average to above average play for 20+ min/game (I'm assuming you hate since pretty much everyone does), but you want to pay Gonchar $5.5 mil for 5-6 minutes and powerplay time?

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.


Gonchar is off the books at the end of the year, Martin is on the hook for the next 3. Big difference!


No, not really.



So gonchar wouldn't be off the book after the next season???? He signed for 3 years in Boston and has played 2 of those years. Or don't you understand the difference between paying a stop gap player for 1 year instead of paying for one for the next 3 years in Martin?


No. I'm saying paying $5.5 mil for any amount of time for a guy who does less than the guy making $5 mil is pretty stupid, regardless how you spin it.

It would be like Kovalev. A waste of cap space.
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Re: UFAs besides the top dogs?

Postby ffemtreed on Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:06 pm

MRandall25 wrote:No. I'm saying paying $5.5 mil for any amount of time for a guy who does less than the guy making $5 mil is pretty stupid, regardless how you spin it.

It would be like Kovalev. A waste of cap space.


I can think of a lot better ways to waste cap space, again what good is cap space if your not going to use it? Maybe this will help you, Pay martin 15 million to be useless or pay gonchar 5 million to be useless. It doesn't make any sense to pay 15 million over 5 million. For the record I don't think either player is useless,I think they have different skills sets and both could be valuable to the pens.
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Re: UFAs besides the top dogs?

Postby MRandall25 on Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:19 pm

ffemtreed wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:No. I'm saying paying $5.5 mil for any amount of time for a guy who does less than the guy making $5 mil is pretty stupid, regardless how you spin it.

It would be like Kovalev. A waste of cap space.


I can think of a lot better ways to waste cap space, again what good is cap space if your not going to use it? Maybe this will help you, Pay martin 15 million to be useless or pay gonchar 5 million to be useless. It doesn't make any sense to pay 15 million over 5 million. For the record I don't think either player is useless,I think they have different skills sets and both could be valuable to the pens.


Martin's salary beyond this year is irrelevant to this discussion. Quit bringing it up.

Why would you waste ANOTHER $5.5 mil to pay a guy to play 5-6 minutes a night? Answer the question. You haven't yet.

Just because the space is there doesn't mean we need to blow it.
Last edited by MRandall25 on Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: UFAs besides the top dogs?

Postby joker10277 on Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:19 pm

ffemtreed wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:No. I'm saying paying $5.5 mil for any amount of time for a guy who does less than the guy making $5 mil is pretty stupid, regardless how you spin it.

It would be like Kovalev. A waste of cap space.


I can think of a lot better ways to waste cap space, again what good is cap space if your not going to use it? Maybe this will help you, Pay martin 15 million to be useless or pay gonchar 5 million to be useless. It doesn't make any sense to pay 15 million over 5 million. For the record I don't think either player is useless,I think they have different skills sets and both could be valuable to the pens.


If you have to trade martin salary for salary a deal like this makes the most sense, seeing as how you have 5.5 of cap space after this year. Also, think gonch is better on this team than martin is.
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Re: UFAs besides the top dogs?

Postby joker10277 on Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:22 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
ffemtreed wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:No. I'm saying paying $5.5 mil for any amount of time for a guy who does less than the guy making $5 mil is pretty stupid, regardless how you spin it.

It would be like Kovalev. A waste of cap space.


I can think of a lot better ways to waste cap space, again what good is cap space if your not going to use it? Maybe this will help you, Pay martin 15 million to be useless or pay gonchar 5 million to be useless. It doesn't make any sense to pay 15 million over 5 million. For the record I don't think either player is useless,I think they have different skills sets and both could be valuable to the pens.


Martin's salary beyond this year is irrelevant to this discussion. Quit bringing it up.

Why would you waste ANOTHER $5.5 mil to pay a guy to play 5-6 minutes a night? Answer the question. You haven't yet.


Gonchar would play 15 minutes a night and is great on the PP.
Question for you Mrandall, are you still not convinced staal wants to be traded???? :P
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Re: UFAs besides the top dogs?

Postby MRandall25 on Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:25 pm

joker10277 wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
ffemtreed wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:No. I'm saying paying $5.5 mil for any amount of time for a guy who does less than the guy making $5 mil is pretty stupid, regardless how you spin it.

It would be like Kovalev. A waste of cap space.


I can think of a lot better ways to waste cap space, again what good is cap space if your not going to use it? Maybe this will help you, Pay martin 15 million to be useless or pay gonchar 5 million to be useless. It doesn't make any sense to pay 15 million over 5 million. For the record I don't think either player is useless,I think they have different skills sets and both could be valuable to the pens.


Martin's salary beyond this year is irrelevant to this discussion. Quit bringing it up.

Why would you waste ANOTHER $5.5 mil to pay a guy to play 5-6 minutes a night? Answer the question. You haven't yet.


Gonchar would play 15 minutes a night and is great on the PP.
Question for you Mrandall, are you still not convinced staal wants to be traded???? :P


Irrelevant to the discussion. Shero made the right move though.

Gonchar was a terrible d-man 2 years ago (his last season in Pit [especially playoffs] and his first in Ottawa). Why is he suddenly "OMG we have to have him"? Alexei Kovalev all over again.
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Re: UFAs besides the top dogs?

Postby ffemtreed on Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:58 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
joker10277 wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
ffemtreed wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:No. I'm saying paying $5.5 mil for any amount of time for a guy who does less than the guy making $5 mil is pretty stupid, regardless how you spin it.

It would be like Kovalev. A waste of cap space.


I can think of a lot better ways to waste cap space, again what good is cap space if your not going to use it? Maybe this will help you, Pay martin 15 million to be useless or pay gonchar 5 million to be useless. It doesn't make any sense to pay 15 million over 5 million. For the record I don't think either player is useless,I think they have different skills sets and both could be valuable to the pens.


Martin's salary beyond this year is irrelevant to this discussion. Quit bringing it up.

Why would you waste ANOTHER $5.5 mil to pay a guy to play 5-6 minutes a night? Answer the question. You haven't yet.


Gonchar would play 15 minutes a night and is great on the PP.
Question for you Mrandall, are you still not convinced staal wants to be traded???? :P



Irrelevant to the discussion. Shero made the right move though.

Gonchar was a terrible d-man 2 years ago (his last season in Pit [especially playoffs] and his first in Ottawa). Why is he suddenly "OMG we have to have him"? Alexei Kovalev all over again.



Who is saying we have to have him? I said if other options didn't work out then Gonchar would be a nice stopgap on the team for next year. You might not want to count the future years of Martins contract because it doesn't fit your argument, but it give the PENS a TON more flexibility to remold the team without having that future commitment. We have guys like Morrow, Harrington and etc that very well might be ready for NHL play full time in 2 years.

I really am at a loss for words if you don't think the remaining years on Martins contract are irrelevant, esp with Crosbys new deal (whatever that may) be kicking in the following year. None of us know what Crosby is asking for, but i bet he gets more than the 300,000 year raise that every on here assumes he is taking.
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Re: UFAs besides the top dogs?

Postby Defence21 on Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:04 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
ffemtreed wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:No. I'm saying paying $5.5 mil for any amount of time for a guy who does less than the guy making $5 mil is pretty stupid, regardless how you spin it.

It would be like Kovalev. A waste of cap space.


I can think of a lot better ways to waste cap space, again what good is cap space if your not going to use it? Maybe this will help you, Pay martin 15 million to be useless or pay gonchar 5 million to be useless. It doesn't make any sense to pay 15 million over 5 million. For the record I don't think either player is useless,I think they have different skills sets and both could be valuable to the pens.


Martin's salary beyond this year is irrelevant to this discussion. Quit bringing it up.

Why would you waste ANOTHER $5.5 mil to pay a guy to play 5-6 minutes a night? Answer the question. You haven't yet.

Just because the space is there doesn't mean we need to blow it.

I don't get how it's irrelevant to the discussion. I'm not interested in bringing Gonchar back, but I could see how it would make sense if the swap was Martin to Ottawa for Gonchar. Gonchar makes $5.5 mil more for one more season. That's $0.5 mil more than Martin makes, and it would come during a season when the Penguins project to have a nice amount of cap cushion. After this season, it would then free up significant cap space to go after a free agent or two.

I'd rather see Martin traded in a deal for a player like Setoguchi or, better yet, a package of prospects and picks, allowing the Penguins to make another trade for a defender (or just sign Suter). But bringing back Gonchar to play 15 minutes a night with a focus on running the power play isn't the worst idea I have heard -- and it certainly makes a degree of sense, even if I'm not a proponent of it.
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Re: UFAs besides the top dogs?

Postby Gaucho on Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:09 pm

I used to be a big fan of the Sarge, but I think he would be a terrible solution as a stopgap at that price. Remember, in the real world this is real money the ownership has to pay. I assume theyd not be thrilled to commit that much money to a player you dont really want out there in ES situations. Better to spend the money on a player that knows how to do a quiet, reliable job in his own end. Just mho.
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Re: UFAs besides the top dogs?

Postby ffemtreed on Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:20 pm

Gaucho wrote:I used to be a big fan of the Sarge, but I think he would be a terrible solution as a stopgap at that price. Remember, in the real world this is real money the ownership has to pay. I assume theyd not be thrilled to commit that much money to a player you dont really want out there in ES situations. Better to spend the money on a player that knows how to do a quiet, reliable job in his own end. Just mho.


but where are we going to get such a player without having to give up much assets for? Are we going to fill it with some scrub journeyman fringe NHL'r just to fill a spot? or do we utilize some of our cap cushion to over pay for a player to help the powerplay and provide some depth on D should someone get hurt. Remember last year when letang was out out pathetic our PP was. Do you remember we had to have a forward on the point all season because we didn't have the correct D players to play the point on the PP, do you remember all the shorthanded goals we gave up because we had a forward on the point all season and in the playoffs.

I bet if we gave up 1/2 of the shorthanded goals we did last year we would have won the division and played the 7th or 8th ranked team instead of the Flyers.

Like it or not, right now this team has some major problems with the makeup of the D squad, we have a bunch of people who are average in all areas but don't excel in any areas either. I hate to say it, but we are too well balanced. We need some D that will clear the crease, we need some D who can run a PP. Orpik and Letang are about the only two d who do excel in certain areas. Martin, Niskanen, Michalek, Lovejoy were all decent, but never great. This is where the Goligoski trade really hurt us (no I wouldn't take that trade back) but he provided that little bit of offensive depth that we never regained.

Just think next year if Letang gets hurt, we are absolutely screwed!
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Re: UFAs besides the top dogs?

Postby Gaucho on Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:36 pm

I just happen to think that Gonchar will not solve any of our problems, because at this point he is a scrub journeyman fringe NHLer. Having a forward on the point was the plan all along and it's not an uncommon strategy either. I even remember Sullivan doing a decent job back there.
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Re: UFAs besides the top dogs?

Postby columbia on Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:39 pm

The PP would not have been nearly as effective without Sullivan bringing the puck into the zone. One could criticize him for being overly cautious after that (passing up shots), but he was one of the best values on the team last year. :thumb:
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Re: UFAs besides the top dogs?

Postby joker10277 on Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:09 pm

columbia wrote:The PP would not have been nearly as effective without Sullivan bringing the puck into the zone. One could criticize him for being overly cautious after that (passing up shots), but he was one of the best values on the team last year. :thumb:

The problem with sullivan at this stage is he's a PP specialist, sid needs a better winger at even strength, sullivan is too old, small and weak along the boards to be with sid, and if he can't play top 6 he certainly can't play bottom 6.
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Re: UFAs besides the top dogs?

Postby Pavel Bure on Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:13 pm

joker10277 wrote:
columbia wrote:The PP would not have been nearly as effective without Sullivan bringing the puck into the zone. One could criticize him for being overly cautious after that (passing up shots), but he was one of the best values on the team last year. :thumb:

The problem with sullivan at this stage is he's a PP specialist, sid needs a better winger at even strength, sullivan is too old, small and weak along the boards to be with sid, and if he can't play top 6 he certainly can't play bottom 6.

I was very satisfied with what we got out of Sullivan this year. It was right about at the high end of what I expected him to do and the game I expected him to play. Would sign again for the same price.
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