Grammar, punctuation, and all that jazz

Forum for posts that are not hockey-related.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Grammar, punctuation, and all that jazz

Postby redwill on Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:20 pm

I am quite the stickler for proper grammar, punctuation, spelling, capitalization, etc. I try hard to get it right and am rather upset with myself when I fail to do so.

But I wonder if I should be. I mean, language changes. It evolves. Who am I to judge what the English language will become over the next hundred years? Bede's English was not Chaucer's English, Chaucer's English was not Shakespeare's English, and Shakespeare's English is not our own English.

Language has its own organic rhythm. So what if people today don't use apostrophes correctly? So what if they split their infinitives? So what if their objects don't agree in number with their subjects?

Upon reflection, I guess my biggest problem with the change that is going on in the English language is that it seems to be a result of simple laziness on the part of the users. People can't be bothered to learn the rules for the correct use of the apostrophe, for example. It seems that they just put an apostrophe in anywhere they please because they have a vague idea that one is kind of supposed to be there. I'd rather they just leave it out altogether.

But, in any case, I find myself wanting not to care about it anymore. In my postings on this message board, for example, I find myself using sentence fragments more often than not. Instead of "I don't want to ..." I write "Don't wanna ..." and so forth.

It seems to flow better and I actually kind of like it.

Is there a good reason why we shouldn't just let the language degenerate and evolve? Or should we be steadfast to rules that -- let's face it -- no one really knows who made and, anyway, who elected those folks the Kings of English?

I think that maybe the language conservative in me is giving way to the language liberal. Pop.
redwill
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,964
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:04 pm
Location: Wichita, KS

Re: Grammar, punctuation, and all that jazz

Postby Rylan on Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:21 pm

I write how I speak unless its a formal paper.
Rylan
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,056
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:07 am
Location: Dead and Without Love

Re: Grammar, punctuation, and all that jazz

Postby MRandall25 on Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:23 pm

As long as you aren't horribly misspelling everything ("u", "yu" are the 1st that come to mind), or show that you completely do not have a grasp of simple sentence structure and the language, it's not that bad.
MRandall25
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,918
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:11 pm
Location: BOBROVSKY!!!

Re: Grammar, punctuation, and all that jazz

Postby MWB on Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:26 pm

Write correctly and care about it. Don't give in to the pressure to write like a 16 year-old. We must uphold this language.
MWB
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,863
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:36 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: Grammar, punctuation, and all that jazz

Postby redwill on Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:32 pm

MWB wrote:We must uphold this language.


Why?
redwill
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,964
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:04 pm
Location: Wichita, KS

Re: Grammar, punctuation, and all that jazz

Postby MWB on Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:33 pm

redwill wrote:
MWB wrote:We must uphold this language.


Why?


Dunno.
MWB
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,863
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:36 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: Grammar, punctuation, and all that jazz

Postby MWB on Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:36 pm

I don't have a practical reason, I just get annoyed when people are so grammatically incorrect. Or if I make grammatical errors. Even when I text I write stuff out, use punctuation, and capitalize. I feel old.
MWB
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,863
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:36 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: Grammar, punctuation, and all that jazz

Postby columbia on Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:37 pm

It's almost like the psychology of using Wikipedia:
You rely on it for a quick refresher of information, but are leery of it being viewed as a trusted source.

Those who have a real grasp of the language feel comfortable with dropping into informality, but cringe at the idea of poor usage becoming the standard.
Last edited by columbia on Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
columbia
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 48,346
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:13 am
Location: If you don't have a seat at the table, you're probably on the menu.

Re: Grammar, punctuation, and all that jazz

Postby bhaw on Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:38 pm

redwill wrote:
MWB wrote:We must uphold this language.


Why?


If the language "evolves" into "OMG, I was like r u serious? GTFO! There stoopid," I will go on a murderous rampage of epic proportions. So one reason would be to prevent the 'bhaw Massacre' that you will see on the History Channel for generations to come.
bhaw
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 27,031
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:00 pm
Location: From Hockey Siberia to Hockey Hell

Re: Grammar, punctuation, and all that jazz

Postby MWB on Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:39 pm

columbia wrote:It's almost like the psychology of using Wikipedia:
You rely on it for a quick refresher of information, but are leery of it being viewed as a trusted source.

Those who have a real grasp of the language feel comfortable with dropping into informality, but cringe at the idea of poor usage becoming the standard.


This.
MWB
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,863
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:36 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: Grammar, punctuation, and all that jazz

Postby redwill on Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:48 pm

bhaw wrote:If the language "evolves" into "OMG, I was like r u serious? GTFO! There stoopid," I will go on a murderous rampage of epic proportions. So one reason would be to prevent the 'bhaw Massacre' that you will see on the History Channel for generations to come.


Would you rather we still use the English of Chaucer? What makes our current (proper) usage the end of the "evolution"?
redwill
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,964
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:04 pm
Location: Wichita, KS

Re: Grammar, punctuation, and all that jazz

Postby columbia on Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:52 pm

Get canaan on this:

Tower of Babel Wars
columbia
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 48,346
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:13 am
Location: If you don't have a seat at the table, you're probably on the menu.

Re: Grammar, punctuation, and all that jazz

Postby bhaw on Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:53 pm

redwill wrote:
bhaw wrote:If the language "evolves" into "OMG, I was like r u serious? GTFO! There stoopid," I will go on a murderous rampage of epic proportions. So one reason would be to prevent the 'bhaw Massacre' that you will see on the History Channel for generations to come.


Would you rather we still use the English of Chaucer? What makes our current (proper) usage the end of the "evolution"?


Personal preference. Annoyance level. People who write/spell like that generally have terrible people skills (in person), making it not very practical in the real world.
bhaw
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 27,031
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:00 pm
Location: From Hockey Siberia to Hockey Hell

Re: Grammar, punctuation, and all that jazz

Postby redwill on Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:53 pm

MWB wrote:
redwill wrote:
MWB wrote:We must uphold this language.


Why?


Dunno.


I laughed out loud at that quickly-delivered quip, good sir. Well done, I say!
redwill
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,964
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:04 pm
Location: Wichita, KS

Re: Grammar, punctuation, and all that jazz

Postby redwill on Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:00 am

columbia wrote:but cringe at the idea of poor usage becoming the standard.


Why cringe? Stuffy, petty, phony elitism? In other words, "I use language better than him, so at least I have that going for me"? Or just stodgy, grumpy, "You kids get off my lawn" conservatism?
redwill
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,964
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:04 pm
Location: Wichita, KS

Re: Grammar, punctuation, and all that jazz

Postby columbia on Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:01 am

The ladder.

:pop:
columbia
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 48,346
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:13 am
Location: If you don't have a seat at the table, you're probably on the menu.

Re: Grammar, punctuation, and all that jazz

Postby redwill on Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:02 am

Ah. Social climbing.
redwill
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,964
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:04 pm
Location: Wichita, KS

Re: Grammar, punctuation, and all that jazz

Postby redwill on Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:04 am

bhaw wrote:People who write/spell like that generally have terrible people skills (in person), making it not very practical in the real world.


Yeah, I suppose I can get behind that argument. I have taught an occasional class and I grade grammar, etc. on all written assignments. When a student gets a paper back with 81 red marks on a three-page paper, his/her response is invariably, "This isn't an English class!"

I usually respond with something like, "Every class you take in college should be an English class." We're supposed to be training these students not only to know the content of the course, but to be effective communicators, careful thinkers and workers, blah, blah, blah. Mastery of the language is therefore a tool the students can use to hone life skills and is not necessarily an end in itself. It's not the language that's important -- it's taking the time to master a skill.

As for the language itself ... meh. Let it burn.
redwill
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,964
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:04 pm
Location: Wichita, KS

Re: Grammar, punctuation, and all that jazz

Postby Sarcastic on Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:02 am

I think that there is a difference between purposely writing in less than 100% correct grammar and simply being unable to spell. I'll often leave something that wouldn't pass on an English exam just because it flows better or maybe sounds funnier. But it does piss me off, at times, when I see people make mistakes that are so obvious and so egregious that I wonder if they ever finished high school.

Teen talk with the U and the 2 B or Not 2 B is on another level and, for that, I'd be willing to smack people around. Unless they're trying to be funny.
Sarcastic
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,283
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:49 pm

Re: Grammar, punctuation, and all that jazz

Postby Easton on Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:53 am

When people are in a serious stance against something, and they spell as well as Steve Irwin wrestled string rays or are as grammatically correct as Staal is sober, I have a difficult time believing their older than 13. Otherwise I don't care too much.
Easton
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,657
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 5:12 am

Re: Grammar, punctuation, and all that jazz

Postby C4 Row E on Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:30 am

MWB wrote:I don't have a practical reason, I just get annoyed when people are so grammatically incorrect. Or if I make grammatical errors. Even when I text I write stuff out, use punctuation, and capitalize. I feel old.


:shock: I hope that this whole post is sarcasm.
C4 Row E
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,958
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:44 am
Location: 119

Re: Grammar, punctuation, and all that jazz

Postby canaan on Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:01 am

Im not a grammar nazi nor am I particularly rude about sentence structure, but I have some peccadilloes that irk me to some extent. I don't care to name them as I feel they will be wielded against me.

That being said, i dabble in mixed diction quite frequently, I split infinitives, and i end sentences with prepositions (and i dont care to argue if that is a rule or not).

I do feel there to be a small societal influence on the promotion and usage of correctly writing and speaking as it directly reflects on the image of its people. We've progressed from the cro-magnon man, lets not revert back to it.


finally, i would be remiss if i didnt speak up for a return to chaucer or shakespeare english. verily, thy flightless birds hath acquired a chalice of lord stanley through magnificent displays of might, virtue, and k da $.
canaan
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 39,096
Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 11:13 am
Location: Fritos. On. My. Sub.

Re: Grammar, punctuation, and all that jazz

Postby MWB on Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:13 am

C4 Row E wrote:
MWB wrote:I don't have a practical reason, I just get annoyed when people are so grammatically incorrect. Or if I make grammatical errors. Even when I text I write stuff out, use punctuation, and capitalize. I feel old.


:shock: I hope that this whole post is sarcasm.


No, why?
MWB
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,863
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:36 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: Grammar, punctuation, and all that jazz

Postby no name on Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:26 am

On the internet i always judge a person on the content of their thoughts rather than on how its presented with proper grammar. I have seen cases where some people discredited another persons post since it didn't meet their grammatical expectations. If you can get your point across enough for me to read it, i will judge your post on how well you explain your idea and support your thoughts not on if you know how to use, hear and here in proper context. To each their own thought.
no name
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,110
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:19 pm

Re: Grammar, punctuation, and all that jazz

Postby ulf on Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:33 am

I want to hurt people when they use the wrong "your/you're and there/their/they're."

Also, it makes me happy when someone puts punctuation inside quotation marks.
ulf
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,177
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:41 pm

Next

Return to NHR

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: the wicked child and 9 guests


e-mail