Here's an idea- Go into camp with what we have now

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Re: Here's an idea- Go into camp with what we have now

Postby shmenguin on Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:22 am

Sullivan as a critical component to the PP for most of year. At even strength, he was more than serviceable. Overall, the Sullivan experiment was a success. I don't love the guy, but it's hard to rag on his performance. And it's better to bring him back than to roll the dice with some other mummy.

Though I admit, Im not really that excited about having to sign anyone in that mold.
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Re: Here's an idea- Go into camp with what we have now

Postby steelhammer on Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:32 am

Sullivan is weak defensively to the point of being a liability. It would be nice if he could be more of a finisher, but his hesitation to shoot prevents even the possibility of this. Still a bargain at his price, but I think we needs that position upgraded.
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Re: Here's an idea- Go into camp with what we have now

Postby IanMoran on Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:34 am

I liked Sullivan, but I still feel you're wasting Crosby a little bit if you surround him with Dupuis / Sullivan which is why they need a winger

Blahhhhh, I really liked the ZM deal.. hoping it works out
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Re: Here's an idea- Go into camp with what we have now

Postby Froggy on Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:40 am

I really hated Sullivan.
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Re: Here's an idea- Go into camp with what we have now

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:47 am

Froggy wrote:I really hated Sullivan.


Are you implying that he no longer exists?
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Re: Here's an idea- Go into camp with what we have now

Postby IanMoran on Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:51 am

Froggy wrote:I really hated Sullivan.

He was definitely worth the 1.5 mill in a bubble, but once TK failed to have the huge jump I think the Pens were hoping for too much was expected from him
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Re: Here's an idea- Go into camp with what we have now

Postby sil on Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:02 am

For what was expected of him/what he got paid last season...Sullivan exceeded. Depending on how things shake out, I wouldn't mind him back even if we sign Parise. I'd honestly prefer him next to Sutter than TK...JMO though.
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Re: Here's an idea- Go into camp with what we have now

Postby Froggy on Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:07 am

Sullivan is a defensive liability who barely contributes at even strength. He had 27 even strength points last year (8g 19a) in 79 games. Kennedy had 30 in 60 games. Kennedy is more physical, better on the cycle, and less of an empty sweater on d. Also, with Crosby back, I think it's fair to assume that Sullivan will get less pp time, making him even more useless.
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Re: Here's an idea- Go into camp with what we have now

Postby IanMoran on Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:12 am

IIRC Froggy's the one that loves TK? But yea, I too would rather have Sully than TK on that line

Doesn't matter though as TK is still under contract.. Sully is not
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Re: Here's an idea- Go into camp with what we have now

Postby shmenguin on Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:13 am

sil wrote:For what was expected of him/what he got paid last season...Sullivan exceeded. Depending on how things shake out, I wouldn't mind him back even if we sign Parise. I'd honestly prefer him next to Sutter than TK...JMO though.


so you want that line to be a crappy 2nd line instead of a good 3rd line?
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Re: Here's an idea- Go into camp with what we have now

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:14 am

Froggy wrote:Sullivan is a defensive liability who barely contributes at even strength. He had 27 even strength points last year (8g 19a) in 79 games. Kennedy had 30 in 60 games. Kennedy is more physical, better on the cycle, and less of an empty sweater on d. Also, with Crosby back, I think it's fair to assume that Sullivan will get less pp time, making him even more useless.


When you say more useless, do you mean he'll be relegated to being almost as useless as Kennedy?
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Re: Here's an idea- Go into camp with what we have now

Postby IanMoran on Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:14 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
Froggy wrote:Sullivan is a defensive liability who barely contributes at even strength. He had 27 even strength points last year (8g 19a) in 79 games. Kennedy had 30 in 60 games. Kennedy is more physical, better on the cycle, and less of an empty sweater on d. Also, with Crosby back, I think it's fair to assume that Sullivan will get less pp time, making him even more useless.


When you say more useless, do you mean he'll be relegated to being almost as useless as Kennedy?

lololololol
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Re: Here's an idea- Go into camp with what we have now

Postby shmenguin on Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:15 am

all the people who weren't happy with the effort, the discipline or the toughness of our team in the playoffs, raise your hand.
all the people who'd rather see sullivan than TK on the 3rd line, raise your hand.

i predict really confusing results to this survey
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Re: Here's an idea- Go into camp with what we have now

Postby IanMoran on Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:17 am

I remember there were 2 guys who were brothers or something who for some reason WAYYY overrated TK? I'm guessing that's shmeguin / Froggy?
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Re: Here's an idea- Go into camp with what we have now

Postby shmenguin on Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:19 am

IanMoran wrote:I remember there were 2 guys who were brothers or something who for some reason WAYYY overrated TK? I'm guessing that's shmeguin / Froggy?


yep. when i said earlier that he's at best a good 3rd liner, i must have been high.
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Re: Here's an idea- Go into camp with what we have now

Postby IanMoran on Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:22 am

shmenguin wrote:
IanMoran wrote:I remember there were 2 guys who were brothers or something who for some reason WAYYY overrated TK? I'm guessing that's shmeguin / Froggy?


yep. when i said earlier that he's at best a good 3rd liner, i must have been high.

lolol. I really don't remember, hence why I'm asking. Just vague memories of some argument in which I was against guys who just seemed to love TK. I could be wrong.
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Re: Here's an idea- Go into camp with what we have now

Postby sil on Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:23 am

shmenguin wrote:
sil wrote:For what was expected of him/what he got paid last season...Sullivan exceeded. Depending on how things shake out, I wouldn't mind him back even if we sign Parise. I'd honestly prefer him next to Sutter than TK...JMO though.


so you want that line to be a crappy 2nd line instead of a good 3rd line?


I don't know if I'd use the same qualifier's...but yes, I'd definitely prefer the 3rd line to look more like a 2nd line.
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Re: Here's an idea- Go into camp with what we have now

Postby steelhammer on Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:23 am

If TK can get his goal scoring touch back then I would have much less of a problem with him. He is still young enough to turn things around and be a better player. I just really hate how he gets tunnel vision when the puck is on his stick and tries to skate to the left circle no matter where he is on the ice. He needs to get into more open areas without the puck and develop a decent one-timer shot.
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Re: Here's an idea- Go into camp with what we have now

Postby shmenguin on Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:31 am

sil wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
sil wrote:For what was expected of him/what he got paid last season...Sullivan exceeded. Depending on how things shake out, I wouldn't mind him back even if we sign Parise. I'd honestly prefer him next to Sutter than TK...JMO though.


so you want that line to be a crappy 2nd line instead of a good 3rd line?


I don't know if I'd use the same qualifier's...but yes, I'd definitely prefer the 3rd line to look more like a 2nd line.


people will somehow figure out a way to argue with this, but here we go...

PLAYER A: .32 ES APG, .18 ES GPG
PLAYER B: .2 ES APG, .15 ES GPG

anyone want to guess which one's sullivan and which one's TK? and refresh my memory, but which one spent most of the season with geno and which one split time between staal and f'n jeffery?
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Re: Here's an idea- Go into camp with what we have now

Postby Brian on Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:45 am

Dumping Z and his big salary was the right move, regardless if Parise or Suter does not sign. The Penguins seem content on keeping Martin, but clearing his salary would be a benefit.

As they are built today, the Penguins are a LOCK for the postseason, even with the young guys on D. There is too much talent up front for them to not be in the top 8.

They are still the front runners for Parise, and he would obviously be a great get. I only worry that it could affect Malkin's next deal (I am assuming he signs here again) or Letang's third contract. This one looks like it would be more difficult to do if Parise or Suter comes aboard.

Anyways, for those who are freaking out about the Penguins not making moves, chill. The Penguins are loaded. The series against Philly was an abberation and could easily have gone to the Pens in six. Shero will find a long-term winger for Crosby. It does not HAVE to be Parise.
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Re: Here's an idea- Go into camp with what we have now

Postby tfrizz on Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:48 am

Brian wrote:Dumping Z and his big salary was the right move, regardless if Parise or Suter does not sign. The Penguins seem content on keeping Martin, but clearing his salary would be a benefit.

As they are built today, the Penguins are a LOCK for the postseason, even with the young guys on D. There is too much talent up front for them to not be in the top 8.

They are still the front runners for Parise, and he would obviously be a great get. I only worry that it could affect Malkin's next deal (I am assuming he signs here again) or Letang's third contract. This one looks like it would be more difficult to do if Parise or Suter comes aboard.

Anyways, for those who are freaking out about the Penguins not making moves, chill. The Penguins are loaded. The series against Philly was an abberation and could easily have gone to the Pens in six. Shero will find a long-term winger for Crosby. It does not HAVE to be Parise.


They do? Then what's with all the reports from reputable sources on Twitter saying that Ray Shero is, and has been, aggressively trying to move Martin? Sounds to me like Shero isn't content, but no one is willing to take Martin.
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Re: Here's an idea- Go into camp with what we have now

Postby indian on Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:50 am

I have a question since I don't remember exactly. How many rookies did the flyers have in their team, the one that beat us last year?

I am not being facetious, I really don't know. I personally feel that because of better training programs in the Juniors, players are better prepared to contribute earlier than they used to. Also, free agents get paid because of past reputations which is not an indicator of the future performance. Older players also have additional baggage of suffered multiple injuries and there is nothing like complete recovery. If there are youngsters who are technically somewhat sound, have the right work ethic and have appropriate skill level, they should be given a chance to build their reputation.
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Re: Here's an idea- Go into camp with what we have now

Postby shmenguin on Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:51 am

Brian wrote:Dumping Z and his big salary was the right move, regardless if Parise or Suter does not sign.


that's a tough sell. maybe niskanen can give you the same net value as even strength. and maybe depres will be so good that his 13 minutes a game will make a big impact.

...but losing Z is a decent blow to a penalty kill that already lost a big contributor.
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Re: Here's an idea- Go into camp with what we have now

Postby Brian on Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:52 am

Obviously I am not on the inside, but I do take the beat reporters' words seriously enough to say it "seems" like the Penguins are content on keeping Martin. Both have reported that Shero has taken calls for Martin.

Martin just is not the same guy who played for the Devils. I remember being really excited about his signing, but last year was horrible. I would dump him in a heartbeat for anything, even if it was a salary swap.
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Re: Here's an idea- Go into camp with what we have now

Postby Brian on Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:56 am

@shemenguin

Z never fit in here. The penalty kill you reference was non existent when it mattered most. I am from the camp that believes anyone can kill penalties, and a guy like Sutter brings a lot of PK experience. The Penguins gave themselves flexibility by moving Z.

The team we see today will likely be dramatically different around the deadline and into the playoffs. Look at the changes that were made during the first two Cup victories and the Crosby era Cup runs. The Penguins may not have signed Hossa long term, but they made a great move in acquiring him.

The Penguins have two things that other teams crave: a wealth of puck moving, young defensemen and flexibility. I would love to ZP sign here but certainly will not be heartbroken if he does not.
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