Paul Martin

[DelPen]

I am burying the hatchet with Paul Martin ( which is funny because it implies he knows I have a problem with him and would even care). It's clear he won't be moved and no matter what I think he is better than anyone available right now.

So I have some questions:
1) who did he play with in NJ where he looked so good?
2) who did he play with in Pittsburgh that made him look so bad at times?
3) who is the best partner to pair him with and why?

I don't remember him playing with Niskanen much, maybe those two can be an effective 2nd pairing, certainly the 2nd PP defensive pairing.

[Mongoose87]

He played with Michalek his first year, and he was pretty solid. Then they put him with that Michalek guy, the next year. Terrible move.

[Kovy27]

1. I do believe he played with Colin White, who happens to be a UFA.
2. I think Paul played with the wrong people....Michalek and Letang. They should have had him with Orpik more often.
3. Niskanen wouldn't be a bad choice, but what about getting Colin White?

[DelPen]

Colin White would be good depth and worth having on the roster. Not a bad choice.

[Mongoose87]

That White guy could be a good option.

[Kovy27]

Colin White would be good depth and worth having on the roster. Not a bad choice.

I'll take

Orpik-Letang
Martin-White
Niskanen-Depres
Engs.

Trade off Lovejoy.

[Kovy27]

Lets be honest, if RS can go out and pull off a trade for say...Rick Nash. I am not saying they will get him, but RS has amazing ways of doing things...
Then brings in Colin White. I like that almost as much as Parise and Suter.

I think everyone went into panic mode and worried about those 2. It isn't always the star players that win cups....See Talbot, Max.

[Mongoose87]

Colin White would be good depth and worth having on the roster. Not a bad choice.

I'll take

Orpik-Letang
Martin-White
Niskanen-Depres
Engs.

Trade off Lovejoy.

I'd really like that. We need to let some of these young guys cut their teeth, instead of having nobodies like Lovejoy and Engelland use the easy icetime up.

[BfromD]

Based on his history playing with Martin and a likely cheap price tag, how do you not take a leap on white and sign him for a short term deal? Is he damaged goods? A few minutes of reading about him suggests that he brings what the pens need.

[Pavel Bure]

Lets be honest, if RS can go out and pull off a trade for say...Rick Nash. I am not saying they will get him, but RS has amazing ways of doing things...
Then brings in Colin White. I like that almost as much as Parise and Suter.

I think everyone went into panic mode and worried about those 2. It isn't always the star players that win cups....See Talbot, Max.

The only downside IMO with Nash is the length of his contract. Other than that the guy is a straight up monster on the puck and on the ice in general. There are just a lot of haters around here who hate on him for his salary. How is it his fault Columbus paid him like that?

[Sarcastic]

Suddenly, that Nash contract I like to make fun of doesn't seem so bad, compared to Parise's. Ain't that a beach.

[Sarcastic]

As far as Martin, let's hope he plays like he did when paired with Letang. He swears that he didn't play well during Flyers series because of concussion symptoms. I am more happy that Michalek's gone.

[HockeyDaddy]

Lets be honest, if RS can go out and pull off a trade for say...Rick Nash. I am not saying they will get him, but RS has amazing ways of doing things...
Then brings in Colin White. I like that almost as much as Parise and Suter.

I think everyone went into panic mode and worried about those 2. It isn't always the star players that win cups....See Talbot, Max.

You're right, Max wasn't a star player. He was a super star.

[JoseCuervo]

I'd rather have strait or despres than one-eyed colin white

[FreeCandy44]

That White guy could be a good option.

Why does it have to be about color? ;)

[Bioshock]

Colin....Black?

[mikey287]

- Colin White might have been the worst player in the league last year and he only has one eye...I think I'll pass...I think he's toast in this league...

- Paul Martin was successful in New Jersey because his strengths were bought to the forefront...the defense wasn't as aggressive and Martin never had to babysit anyone. From what I remember, he was paired with Bryce Salvador an awful lot. The Devils former tactics were throwback to the O6 era. Center takes the puck from behind the net and carries it through all zones, gains the offense zone and passes to wingers. Scott Gomez was excellent at this. When Gomez left, Paul Martin did it and he was really good at it. Salvador was Martin's safety net. Martin would carry and dish.

He also saw first pairing power play time (with Oduya or Rolston, IIRC). It's a strange thing for me to consider that Martin and Michalek didn't work, but Martin had played really well with a #5/6 type of defensive defenseman as his partner for whatever reason...especially a physical one. Martin's retrieval skills are very good, but none of his best assets are really used. Our defensemen don't really carry the puck. We don't have any one that's serviceable and physical besides Orpik to pair with Martin so that one can disengage puck from player and Martin can retrieve and make a breakout...we just aren't a good fit for him, but adjustments can be made...but it seems that the coaching will remain the same and the players will be altered, as opposed to altering the coaching to work with the players (or else we wouldn't have gone hard after Parise and Suter and wouldn't have traded Michalek for a song).

So, it's going to be tough for Martin to find his place here. I wish I had more of an answer of what to do, but given how we finished the year last year, it's unclear who we are as a team...that last month and that playoff series wasn't us...that was Washington...so I have no answers without restructuring the whole system...I don't know what we're gonna come out and play like next year...

[Kraftster]

Colin White was atrocious. Definitely no.

[bhaw]

Well said mikey. DB is not playing to Martin's strengths. It seems weird for Shero to have to churn through players to find guys that can fit DB's system instead of expecting him to alter the system around the players Shero has brought in.

Also, after seeing Carle's contract, Martin's doesn't look so bad

[Nizzy]

1. I do believe he played with Colin White, who happens to be a UFA.
2. I think Paul played with the wrong people....Michalek and Letang. They should have had him with Orpik more often.
3. Niskanen wouldn't be a bad choice, but what about getting Colin White?

Funny you mention that because I thought that they never gave Letang - Michalek a chance. Michalek is similar to a Scuderi in multiple ways, would most agree? Letang is similar to a Doughty in multiple ways, would most agree?

I really think it could have been our Scuderi - Doughty pairing. I too felt like Martin/Orpik, Letang/Michalek weren't tested long enough.

[Kraftster]

Well said mikey. DB is not playing to Martin's strengths. It seems weird for Shero to have to churn through players to find guys that can fit DB's system instead of expecting him to alter the system around the players Shero has brought in.

Also, after seeing Carle's contract, Martin's doesn't look so bad

Shero seems to have gone all in on Bylsma hockey. All the "penguins hockey" nonsense we've heard in the past couple years. Trying to switch personnel instead of coaching after last season. Continuing to ignore viable options that are don't fit Bylsma's system/"penguins hockey" etc. Blah.

[Nizzy]

@Mikey

Martin Orpik
Letang Despres
Niskanen X1
X2

X = Engelland, Strait, Bortuzzo, the best 2 from camp.

If its not working, deadline deal for a top 4? What do you think?

[Froggy]

I thought the Martin/letang combo was solid until letang got hurt and then forgot how to play defense

[wondermoose]

1. I do believe he played with Colin White, who happens to be a UFA.
2. I think Paul played with the wrong people....Michalek and Letang. They should have had him with Orpik more often.
3. Niskanen wouldn't be a bad choice, but what about getting Colin White?

Funny you mention that because I thought that they never gave Letang - Michalek a chance. Michalek is similar to a Scuderi in multiple ways, would most agree? Letang is similar to a Doughty in multiple ways, would most agree?

I really think it could have been our Scuderi - Doughty pairing. I too felt like Martin/Orpik, Letang/Michalek weren't tested long enough.

Michalek wa similar in that he didn't care about getting hit by pucks, but Scuderi really has a mind for pure defense. Michalek, not so much, from what I saw. There's more to that style of play than just laying down to block.

[Nizzy]

Aw sounds good. I really wish the cap wasnt so low after the cup victory. 3.1 for scuderi is a sick deal.

problem is everyone was looking at him as a 5-6 defenseman still, should have realized he should be in the top 4 next year instead of goligoski...