New Poll is up on TSN Who's Better Karlsson or Letang

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New Poll is up on TSN Who's Better Karlsson or Letang

Postby jcgopens on Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:51 pm

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Re: New Poll is up on TSN Who's Better Karlsson or Letang

Postby Guinness on Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:55 pm

If we vote up Letang, he's going to demand more on his next contract. Vote for Karlsson. ;)
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Re: New Poll is up on TSN Who's Better Karlsson or Letang

Postby Rylan on Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:01 pm

Letang has better hair.
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Re: New Poll is up on TSN Who's Better Karlsson or Letang

Postby KG on Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:02 pm

50.2 to 49.7 for Karlsson right now...

Must be more Pens then Sens fans to make it that close = )
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Re: New Poll is up on TSN Who's Better Karlsson or Letang

Postby Malkamaniac on Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:17 pm

Eh, I actually think its close.
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Re: New Poll is up on TSN Who's Better Karlsson or Letang

Postby steelhammer on Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:33 pm

Karlsson, and it's not close.
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Re: New Poll is up on TSN Who's Better Karlsson or Letang

Postby mikey287 on Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:36 pm

steelhammer wrote:Karlsson, and it's not close.


Well, if Letang is a top-10 d-man in the league, it has to be remotely close...Karlsson had a better 2012 though...
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Re: New Poll is up on TSN Who's Better Karlsson or Letang

Postby Malkamaniac on Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:37 pm

mikey287 wrote:
steelhammer wrote:Karlsson, and it's not close.


Well, if Letang is a top-10 d-man in the league, it has to be remotely close...Karlsson had a better 2012 though...


I think Letang is better overall d and Karlsson is better overall o. It's not close because it's a Canadian vs American team.
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Re: New Poll is up on TSN Who's Better Karlsson or Letang

Postby steelhammer on Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:40 pm

mikey287 wrote:
steelhammer wrote:Karlsson, and it's not close.


Well, if Letang is a top-10 d-man in the league, it has to be remotely close...Karlsson had a better 2012 though...


Karlsson was also 21 years old last season and only in his 3rd season in the league. When you compare where he is and where Letang was at 21 and where he is now, well....
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Re: New Poll is up on TSN Who's Better Karlsson or Letang

Postby mikey287 on Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:49 pm

You conclude nothing. Compare Barry Pederson at 22 to Martin St. Louis at 22...

Karlsson's progression is undeniable, and he's fantastic. But, I'm not sure why it's "not close"...seems presumptious more than anything...
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Re: New Poll is up on TSN Who's Better Karlsson or Letang

Postby steelhammer on Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:05 pm

mikey287 wrote:You conclude nothing. Compare Barry Pederson at 22 to Martin St. Louis at 22...

Karlsson's progression is undeniable, and he's fantastic. But, I'm not sure why it's "not close"...seems presumptious more than anything...


Certainly the skill sets of Letang and Karlsson are closer to each other than the players you listed. They also broke into the NHL at roughly the same age, unlike the players you listed. Karlsson is a better skater, better passer and (much much) better shooter than Letang. Yes, Letang is stronger and better in his own end to some degree, but to a lesser degree than the previous attributes listed (skating is close). Karlsson also won the Norris Trophy at 21 (youngest since 1976). Letang = never nominated. Karlsson = NHL first All-Star team. Letang = never first All-Star Team. These two are close?
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Re: New Poll is up on TSN Who's Better Karlsson or Letang

Postby Rylan on Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:13 pm

Whoa, a better skater than Letang? I really like Karlsson, but I think Letang is one of the better skaters in the NHL. I do admit though, I never really focused on Karlsson all that much to watch his skating.

As for the other things, Karlsson's break offensive season helped get him noticed for the Norris (I thought Doughty won at like 21? Or did I dream that?) and first team all-star. Fantastic defenseman but I don't think Karlsson has a significant advantage over Letang. Its a toss up really.
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Re: New Poll is up on TSN Who's Better Karlsson or Letang

Postby mikey287 on Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:13 pm

I mean, you're matching Karlsson's lone peak season vs. Letang's entire body of work...Letang has a 6th and 9th place Norris and a "third" team all-star...so it's not like Letang is so far out there that Karlsson is off in the distance...

Randy Carlyle has a Norris and Scott Stevens doesn't...

They're both top-10 d-men in the league and since I usually base my opinions on players over a longer stretch of time, I'd still say they're pretty close. If Karlsson puts up another historically good season and Letang becomes the 2nd best d-men on the Penguins, then ok, you got something...but I'd like to see what Karlsson can do next season before I start annointing anyone king of the world...
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Re: New Poll is up on TSN Who's Better Karlsson or Letang

Postby mikey287 on Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:16 pm

Rylan wrote:Whoa, a better skater than Letang? I really like Karlsson, but I think Letang is one of the better skaters in the NHL. I do admit though, I never really focused on Karlsson all that much to watch his skating.

As for the other things, Karlsson's break offensive season helped get him noticed for the Norris (I thought Doughty won at like 21? Or did I dream that?) and first team all-star. Fantastic defenseman but I don't think Karlsson has a significant advantage over Letang. Its a toss up really.


- Doughty has never won a Norris nor has he been a first-team all-star
- Karlsson is a better skater than Letang, not by much, but he is. Karlsson is poetry in motion.
- Karlsson had a historically good offensive season vs. his peers and deserved the Norris. Also of note, Letang got some serious Norris love (relatively speaking) despite missing half the season, says a lot about his reputation throughout the league.
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Re: New Poll is up on TSN Who's Better Karlsson or Letang

Postby Rylan on Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:21 pm

mikey287 wrote:
Rylan wrote:Whoa, a better skater than Letang? I really like Karlsson, but I think Letang is one of the better skaters in the NHL. I do admit though, I never really focused on Karlsson all that much to watch his skating.

As for the other things, Karlsson's break offensive season helped get him noticed for the Norris (I thought Doughty won at like 21? Or did I dream that?) and first team all-star. Fantastic defenseman but I don't think Karlsson has a significant advantage over Letang. Its a toss up really.


- Doughty has never won a Norris nor has he been a first-team all-star
- Karlsson is a better skater than Letang, not by much, but he is. Karlsson is poetry in motion.
- Karlsson had a historically good offensive season vs. his peers and deserved the Norris. Also of note, Letang got some serious Norris love (relatively speaking) despite missing half the season, says a lot about his reputation throughout the league.


Thanks. Did Doughty finish in the top 3 once or did I also make that up?

Fair enough, I get bored with the Sens and really didn't watch them all that much this season.

But, I don't disagree that Karlsson deserved his Norris trophy. I honestly feel he should have finished higher in the Hart but alas it was not to be.
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Re: New Poll is up on TSN Who's Better Karlsson or Letang

Postby mikey287 on Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:25 pm

Yes, he has a 3rd (re: Doughty). Hart trophies are not traditionally offered to d-men, Karlsson finished 8th (1st among d-men, no first or second place votes), next d-man finished 12th (Chara).
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Re: New Poll is up on TSN Who's Better Karlsson or Letang

Postby Rylan on Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:28 pm

It seemed like he was a huge reason Ottawa was even relevant this year, and didn't have your typical d-man year.
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Re: New Poll is up on TSN Who's Better Karlsson or Letang

Postby mikey287 on Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:29 pm

Rylan wrote:It seemed like he was a huge reason Ottawa was even relevant this year, and didn't have your typical d-man year.


Even so, it doesn't happen that way. He was a big part of it, but the voters don't believe that award belongs to d-men. The Norris does.
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Re: New Poll is up on TSN Who's Better Karlsson or Letang

Postby Rylan on Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:30 pm

Do you think the Lester (Lindsay I guess) has a better chance for a defenseman to win?
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Re: New Poll is up on TSN Who's Better Karlsson or Letang

Postby mikey287 on Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:38 pm

Rylan wrote:Do you think the Lester (Lindsay I guess) has a better chance for a defenseman to win?


Nope, it's only be won once by a d-man (Orr) one time (1975)...so if it's only begrudingly given to Orr one time, so no, it's even less of a d-man's award...I mean, Jean Ratelle won it head to head with Orr for crying out loud...you'd think the players would have a little better insight, but alas, they don't...
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Re: New Poll is up on TSN Who's Better Karlsson or Letang

Postby Odd Man Rush on Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:39 pm

Karlsson is a helluva talent and I'd take him in a heartbeat. He is better now than Letang was at the same age. However, I think the poll is measuring how they stack up against each other in 2012. That's tough too as they really are vastly different players and they fill different roles on their respective teams. I think a better comparison to Karlsson would be Mike Green of Washington.

Letang is SIGNIFICANTLY better in his own end than Karlsson and that is beyond debate. Also, Letang plays with a much sharper edge to his game and is MUCH more difficult to play against. Karlsson is definitely a more refined offensive player than his Pittsburgh counterpart and is in fact among the top offensive defensemen in the league. Additionally, I predict that Karlsson's numbers will likely continue to climb - he is no fluke. However Karlsson is a defenseman, not a rover, and he has a LOOOOONG way to go in his own end which is one of the reasons why he is a minus-19 for his career despite just putting up a 78 point season.

Again, I would take Karlsson in a New York minute so this is not an anti Karlsson post. Also, Letang can be maddeningly inconsistent - especially when he tries to do too much. However, to me scoring is a secondary expectation for a defenseman and when the measurement is how well they do in their own end, I'd take the Pittsburgh defenseman 10 out of 10 times and so too I suspect would most NHL GM's.

If you take Karlsson in this debate it is for what you think he could become in 2014 and beyond. As of July of 2012, Letang is the better overall player.
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Re: New Poll is up on TSN Who's Better Karlsson or Letang

Postby DelPen on Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:00 am

So did Malkin get a bye to the finals? Confused why the best player in the world isn't in the bracket anywhere.
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Re: New Poll is up on TSN Who's Better Karlsson or Letang

Postby ffemtreed on Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:13 am

DelPen wrote:So did Malkin get a bye to the finals? Confused why the best player in the world isn't in the bracket anywhere.



hmm... he turns 26 before the contest is over. Maybe that's why they excluded him.
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Re: New Poll is up on TSN Who's Better Karlsson or Letang

Postby shmenguin on Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:34 am

Maybe karlsson is a "better" skater, but letang may be a more "effective" skater. His recovery speed is off the charts. His ability to stretch out his range on the ice is something that directly leads to big plays in both ends. I don't watch enough of karlsson to say that he doesn't have the same range, but I doubt that he does.
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Re: New Poll is up on TSN Who's Better Karlsson or Letang

Postby sil on Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:59 am

Everyone vote for Karlsson. That way we can take this poll as evidence as to why Kris shouldn't take as much money as Karlsson on his next deal! :slug:
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