Flyers offer sheet Weber

Forum for hockey posts that are not Penguins-related.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby HockeyDaddy on Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:10 pm

jprolley wrote:
topshelf wrote:For someone who isn't too knowledgeable about contract stuff:

Why was Kovalchuk's initial deal rejected by the NHL, and deals like this are allowed?

apparently they draw the line at 17 years.


In the unlikely event that the NHL rules that this offer sheet circumvents the cap, I can't even imagine all of the insane scenarios that could ensue.
HockeyDaddy
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,529
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:17 pm
Location: In Yo Face

Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby topshelf on Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:10 pm

jprolley wrote:
topshelf wrote:For someone who isn't too knowledgeable about contract stuff:

Why was Kovalchuk's initial deal rejected by the NHL, and deals like this are allowed?

apparently they draw the line at 17 years.


Seriously, or what that more tongue-in-cheek?

I'll be the first to admit that I am a hypocrite in saying that, while I'm glad we have Crosby inked to the deal we do, I don't like these sort of contracts at all.

That being said, where there's a will, there's a way, and they teams/players will always find a loophole. If the new CBA has these deals outlawed, the next thing will be giving guys huge signing bonuses or something.
topshelf
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,594
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:13 am
Location: Florida

Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby shmenguin on Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:11 pm

i don't know anything about this sort of thing, but if a team is due to pay its players more money than it has available, would the league step in and give some sort of relief?
shmenguin
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 22,585
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:34 pm

Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:13 pm

I'd definitely rather have Weber than 4 picks in the 20-30 range.
Idoit40fans
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 52,648
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:42 pm
Location: No Reading, No Research, Just Strong Opinions

Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby jprolley on Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:15 pm

topshelf wrote:
jprolley wrote:
topshelf wrote:For someone who isn't too knowledgeable about contract stuff:

Why was Kovalchuk's initial deal rejected by the NHL, and deals like this are allowed?

apparently they draw the line at 17 years.


Seriously, or what that more tongue-in-cheek?

I'll be the first to admit that I am a hypocrite in saying that, while I'm glad we have Crosby inked to the deal we do, I don't like these sort of contracts at all.

That being said, where there's a will, there's a way, and they teams/players will always find a loophole. If the new CBA has these deals outlawed, the next thing will be giving guys huge signing bonuses or something.


i'm pretty sure kovy's first deal was for 17 years and it was rejected. then it got approved when it was reduced to 15 years.
jprolley
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 10,442
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:23 pm
Location: Youngstown, Ohio

Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby brwi on Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:13 pm

pfim wrote:They would also still need to acquire more salary to get over the cap floor as well. They're basically paying for two superstars, and only getting one, while still needing to add salary.

The team was insolvent under Leipold and had to solicit the two Pens' grifters (Del Biago and Ballsillie) to effect a sale. I don't share your optimism regarding their finances.


They were profitable 3 years ago when they missed the playoffs, so I'm pretty sure that with rising attendance and also making the playoffs into the 2nd round the last two years while still not spending much, Preds are in pretty good financial position. Whether they want to match the Flyers' front-loaded offer or not is another question.
brwi
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,129
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:36 am

Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby pens2005 on Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:16 pm

pfim wrote:
Kraftster wrote:Why would Nashville not match this? The upfront cash cannot really be an issue or, as has been said, they should just fold.


I doubt very much a team like Nashville, with the revenues they have and the newer ownership group they have, would have $13 million laying around in an account in July. I'm pretty certain there would need to be some re-financing or re-capitalization to pull that off.


Isn't that really thinking about this too deeply. You have no idea how much is in their "account".

Talking about re-financing and re-capitalization seems a bit much if you ask me.
pens2005
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,240
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:54 pm

Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby brwi on Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:34 pm

Pretty sure the NHL is also taking a long look at this offer sheet and thinking about whether it violates the "spirit" of the existing CBA. Obviously, they've nullified contracts before based on that same thinking.
brwi
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,129
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:36 am

Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby redwill on Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:43 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:I'd definitely rather have Weber than 4 picks in the 20-30 range.


Yeah, but they'll presumably also have four of their own. Two #1 picks in each of the next four years is impressive. A good trader could turn those into two or even three very high picks and completely change the team. Or they could end up with eight busts. ... But, then again, who wouldn't pay to see something with eight busts?
redwill
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,790
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:04 pm
Location: Wichita, KS

Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby Kraftster on Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:53 pm

brwi wrote:Pretty sure the NHL is also taking a long look at this offer sheet and thinking about whether it violates the "spirit" of the existing CBA. Obviously, they've nullified contracts before based on that same thinking.


When was the watershed moment that teams discovered they could use signing bonuses to abuse the CBA? I don't remember seeing it in years past. I know in my mind I thought that signing bonuses were only available in the first year of deals, and I fancy myself as someone who knows more than the average bear about the NHL CBA. Essentially, by structuring these deals with huge signing bonuses for multiple seasons, teams are able to circumvent the rule regarding the decline in salary from one year to the next or over the life of the contract. I would not be at all surprised if this is looked at by the NHL.
Kraftster
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,978
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:25 am
Location: Frolik

Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby pfim on Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:13 pm

pens2005 wrote:
pfim wrote:
Kraftster wrote:Why would Nashville not match this? The upfront cash cannot really be an issue or, as has been said, they should just fold.


I doubt very much a team like Nashville, with the revenues they have and the newer ownership group they have, would have $13 million laying around in an account in July. I'm pretty certain there would need to be some re-financing or re-capitalization to pull that off.


Isn't that really thinking about this too deeply. You have no idea how much is in their "account".

Talking about re-financing and re-capitalization seems a bit much if you ask me.


Then what else is there to discuss? Not having the cash to pay it is really the only reason why they wouldn't do it.
pfim
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,789
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:35 am
Location: Sitting in front of my computer

Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby pfim on Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:17 pm

brwi wrote:
pfim wrote:They would also still need to acquire more salary to get over the cap floor as well. They're basically paying for two superstars, and only getting one, while still needing to add salary.

The team was insolvent under Leipold and had to solicit the two Pens' grifters (Del Biago and Ballsillie) to effect a sale. I don't share your optimism regarding their finances.


They were profitable 3 years ago when they missed the playoffs, so I'm pretty sure that with rising attendance and also making the playoffs into the 2nd round the last two years while still not spending much, Preds are in pretty good financial position. Whether they want to match the Flyers' front-loaded offer or not is another question.


http://www.tennessean.com/article/20120 ... blic-money
pfim
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,789
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:35 am
Location: Sitting in front of my computer

Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby Kaizer on Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:02 pm

I dont care if not having the picks hurts the flyers down the road, I dont want Weber in orange and black. match the offer please.
Kaizer
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 9,375
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 11:02 am
Location: Crazy Town

Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby Malkamaniac on Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:16 pm

If Nashville cant afford to match Weber, then goobye Nashville.
Malkamaniac
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 34,154
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:33 pm
Location: Who is Sims?

Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby Bioshock on Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:44 pm

I keep going over the numbers and i just don't see how Nashville matches unless THEY KNOW Weber wants to play his career in there. It's those signing bonuses. That deal where Weber is due 27 million in the first 11 months is a killer and if the Preds were to match the offer and then try to trade him a year from now, they will essentially have to eat 27 million for one year of service.

That just doesn't make sense no matter how badly Nashville wants to match.
Bioshock
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,773
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:55 pm
Location: Mt. Lebanon

Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby brwi on Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:33 pm

pfim wrote:
brwi wrote:
pfim wrote:They would also still need to acquire more salary to get over the cap floor as well. They're basically paying for two superstars, and only getting one, while still needing to add salary.

The team was insolvent under Leipold and had to solicit the two Pens' grifters (Del Biago and Ballsillie) to effect a sale. I don't share your optimism regarding their finances.


They were profitable 3 years ago when they missed the playoffs, so I'm pretty sure that with rising attendance and also making the playoffs into the 2nd round the last two years while still not spending much, Preds are in pretty good financial position. Whether they want to match the Flyers' front-loaded offer or not is another question.


http://www.tennessean.com/article/20120 ... blic-money


Yeah, ownership will continue pleading poverty and taking all the taxpayer monies they can while not showing the actual financials :lol:

I clearly remember 3 years ago the CEO at the time stating the Preds "turned a small profit" after they finished out of the playoffs and since then the financial picture has dramatically improved in every area for the Preds from arena deal, corp sponsorships, attendance, etc. I can say with a lot of certainty here that the Preds have a very positive cash flow the past 2 years, just like I can say with a lot of certainty that the Thrashers were losing around 20mil due to debt service. I've seen the numbers :D
brwi
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,129
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:36 am

Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby steelhammer on Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:20 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:I'd definitely rather have Weber than 4 picks in the 20-30 range.


1. Weber
2. High cap hit
3. Absurd contract length

vs.

1. Despres
2. Bennett
3. Morrow
4. Maatta

No thanks, I'll keep the late first round picks.


edit: typo
Last edited by steelhammer on Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
steelhammer
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,279
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:31 am
Location: Hold on, I have a stat for that.

Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby MRandall25 on Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:51 pm

steelhammer wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:I'd definitely rather have Weber than 4 picks in the 20-30 range.


1. Weber
2. High cap hit
3. Absurd contract length

vs.

1. Despres
2. Bennett
3. Morrow
4. Maataa

No thanks, I'll keep the late first round picks.


And only one of those picks has seen any sort of NHL ice.

Bit early for that. Plus, Nashville's draft record hasn't been that great in recent years. That's a pretty huge hole to fill (Weber) and it's not going to happen this year via FA or drafting in the future.
MRandall25
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,058
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:11 pm
Location: BOBROVSKY!!!

Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby Kraftster on Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:04 pm

steelhammer wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:I'd definitely rather have Weber than 4 picks in the 20-30 range.


1. Weber
2. High cap hit
3. Absurd contract length

vs.

1. Despres
2. Bennett
3. Morrow
4. Maataa

No thanks, I'll keep the late first round picks.


wut? I don't even love Weber but he's easily worth 4 late (bottom third) first round picks. Especially if that's all the better the prospects are with those late picks.
Kraftster
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,978
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:25 am
Location: Frolik

Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby dman66 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:34 am

It pisses me off to no end that it seems like the Flyers just throw whatever against the wall and it always works out for them. They could have 1 million in cap space and are able to pull off crazy moves to get under. They sign guys to 10+ year contracts, trade them away, and yet players still go sign long term deals with them. Eventually, something has got to go wrong for them. Weber in Philly would be awful...
dman66
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,784
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:04 pm
Location: Dahntahn Baltimore, MD

Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby columbia on Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:06 am

My guess is that NSH goes through with trading back a few of the picks to get some NHL talent now.

Weber does not want to be a Predator.
columbia
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 46,723
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:13 am

Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:14 am

dman66 wrote:It pisses me off to no end that it seems like the Flyers just throw whatever against the wall and it always works out for them. They could have 1 million in cap space and are able to pull off crazy moves to get under. They sign guys to 10+ year contracts, trade them away, and yet players still go sign long term deals with them. Eventually, something has got to go wrong for them. Weber in Philly would be awful...


Well realistically, nothing has really worked out for them since the mid 70s.
Idoit40fans
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 52,648
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:42 pm
Location: No Reading, No Research, Just Strong Opinions

Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby pfim on Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:53 am

steelhammer wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:I'd definitely rather have Weber than 4 picks in the 20-30 range.


1. Weber
2. High cap hit
3. Absurd contract length

vs.

1. Despres
2. Bennett
3. Morrow
4. Maatta

No thanks, I'll keep the late first round picks.


edit: typo


It would be more like:

1. Despres in 2013
2. Bennett in 2014
3. Morrow in 2015
4. Maatta in 2016

The Preds aren't going to give up Weber for the chance that 4 guys might make it to the league in years 2015-2019 unless they absolutely must. Makes no sense, they had the third most points in the Western Conference last year. They'd be giving up the best defenseman currently in the league for four guys who most likely won't be as good, and won't be there to make an impact for at least the next 3-7 years.
pfim
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,789
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:35 am
Location: Sitting in front of my computer

Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby Tico Rick on Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:13 am

I'd love to see the Preds call Weber's bluff, match the offer, and issue a statement that they are looking forward to having Webet's services for the rest of his career. Weber will have royally screwed himself at that point.
Tico Rick
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 9,211
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 9:12 am
Location: It's a great day for hockey!

Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby pfim on Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:22 am

Tico Rick wrote:I'd love to see the Preds call Weber's bluff, match the offer, and issue a statement that they are looking forward to having Webet's services for the rest of his career. Weber will have royally screwed himself at that point.


Unfortunately, I think they have to move on. The way he's orchestrated this seems a bit distasteful, but not as distasteful as paying him $110 million dollars and having him sulk for 14 years.

And let's say he says he's happy. I can't think he'd be the most popular player amongst the fans at this point, draining the teams' coffers and affecting their ability to sign other players.
pfim
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,789
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:35 am
Location: Sitting in front of my computer

PreviousNext

Return to NPR

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


e-mail