Flyers offer sheet Weber

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Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby brwi on Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:56 am

pfim wrote:
Tico Rick wrote:I'd love to see the Preds call Weber's bluff, match the offer, and issue a statement that they are looking forward to having Webet's services for the rest of his career. Weber will have royally screwed himself at that point.


Unfortunately, I think they have to move on. The way he's orchestrated this seems a bit distasteful, but not as distasteful as paying him $110 million dollars and having him sulk for 14 years.

And let's say he says he's happy. I can't think he'd be the most popular player amongst the fans at this point, draining the teams' coffers and affecting their ability to sign other players.


Agree. I think that Weber and the Preds will be parting company and it's now a matter of what the Predators want in return and just how hardball Holmgren will be on what he gives up. Considering the rather ruthless and shrewd move he made to get Weber to sign the offer sheet tells me that it could be a real showdown at the last minute between him and Poile over the Weber deal.

Of course, the NHL could step in at any time and rule the offer sheet void and do a reset.
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Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby brwi on Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:03 am

pfim wrote:
The Preds aren't going to give up Weber for the chance that 4 guys might make it to the league in years 2015-2019 unless they absolutely must. Makes no sense, they had the third most points in the Western Conference last year. They'd be giving up the best defenseman currently in the league for four guys who most likely won't be as good, and won't be there to make an impact for at least the next 3-7 years.


Weber the best dman in the NHL? I don't think Weber is better overall than Suter and he's not that close to Chara IMO. His slapshot velocity is close, but his play isn't on a level with him in either zone.
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Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:13 am

Weber is at the very least in the discussion as best. I don't like him at all, but he's definitely there.
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Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby pens2005 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:44 am

Idoit40fans wrote:Weber is at the very least in the discussion as best. I don't like him at all, but he's definitely there.


How come you don't like him? You mean attitude or the way he plays?
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Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby Tico Rick on Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:11 pm

brwi wrote:
pfim wrote:
Tico Rick wrote:I'd love to see the Preds call Weber's bluff, match the offer, and issue a statement that they are looking forward to having Webet's services for the rest of his career. Weber will have royally screwed himself at that point.


Unfortunately, I think they have to move on. The way he's orchestrated this seems a bit distasteful, but not as distasteful as paying him $110 million dollars and having him sulk for 14 years.

And let's say he says he's happy. I can't think he'd be the most popular player amongst the fans at this point, draining the teams' coffers and affecting their ability to sign other players.


Agree. I think that Weber and the Preds will be parting company and it's now a matter of what the Predators want in return and just how hardball Holmgren will be on what he gives up. Considering the rather ruthless and shrewd move he made to get Weber to sign the offer sheet tells me that it could be a real showdown at the last minute between him and Poile over the Weber deal.

Of course, the NHL could step in at any time and rule the offer sheet void and do a reset.


You're probably right, pfim, though Weber can't really sulk and play poorly, as, although it would hurt the Preds, it would also hurt his trade value. Plus, I don't think he could purposely play poorly and still look at everyone else in the locker room.

brwi, I don't get why people are talking about the Flyers working out some sort of trade. Weber has signed a contract with them, and they owe the Preds nothing, aside from the four #1 picks. It's not in their interests to trade away personnel to get those picks back, and they have no obligation to do so.

I do hope the NHL voids these deal. Weber as a Flyer isn't the stake in the Pens' collective heart that some would make it out to be, but it does make them a tougher team to play against.
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Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby pfim on Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:15 pm

Tico Rick wrote:
brwi, I don't get why people are talking about the Flyers working out some sort of trade. Weber has signed a contract with them, and they owe the Preds nothing, aside from the four #1 picks. It's not in their interests to trade away personnel to get those picks back, and they have no obligation to do so.


The leverage the Preds have is matching the deal, not the number 1 picks. So they're telling the Flyers "if you don't give us assets we can use now, we're going to match the offer." The Flyers want the player, so they will work something out.
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Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby Tico Rick on Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:28 pm

Thanks, pfim. Didn't think of that angle. I'm not sure how that would work, though, since at this point the Preds don't own the rights to Weber. "We will agree not to match your offer if you give us X, Y and Z?" That's sounds like a trade the NHL would want to take a look at, along with the contract itself.
Last edited by Tico Rick on Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:29 pm

The only way the Preds aren't completely in the drivers seat right now is if they can't afford Weber.
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Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby bhaw on Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:55 pm

Tico Rick wrote:Thanks, pfim. Didn't think of that angle. I'm not sure how that would work, though, since at this point the Preds don't own the rights to Weber. "We will agree not to match your offer if you give us X, Y and Z?" That's sounds like a trade the NHL would want to take a look at, along with the contract itself.


They sign the offer sheet and trade him back to Philly. Pretty simple.

Philadelphia Flyers Nashville Predators Philadelphia Flyers
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Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby MRandall25 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:56 pm

bhaw wrote:
Tico Rick wrote:Thanks, pfim. Didn't think of that angle. I'm not sure how that would work, though, since at this point the Preds don't own the rights to Weber. "We will agree not to match your offer if you give us X, Y and Z?" That's sounds like a trade the NHL would want to take a look at, along with the contract itself.


They sign the offer sheet and trade him back to Philly in a year. Pretty simple.

Philadelphia Flyers Nashville Predators Philadelphia Flyers


FIFY
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Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby bhaw on Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:58 pm

Why?
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Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby MRandall25 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:03 pm

bhaw wrote:Why?


If Nashville matches, they can't trade Weber for a calendar year.
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Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby pfim on Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:04 pm

bhaw wrote:
Tico Rick wrote:Thanks, pfim. Didn't think of that angle. I'm not sure how that would work, though, since at this point the Preds don't own the rights to Weber. "We will agree not to match your offer if you give us X, Y and Z?" That's sounds like a trade the NHL would want to take a look at, along with the contract itself.


They sign the offer sheet and trade him back to Philly. Pretty simple.

Philadelphia Flyers Nashville Predators Philadelphia Flyers


they can't trade him for one year after signing the contract.

They'll trade the four first round picks back for players in another transaction.
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Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby bhaw on Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:09 pm

Got it. didn't realize that. (probably been said but haven't been able to read the 50 pages on Weber between here and PR)
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Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby Tico Rick on Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:13 pm

pfim wrote:They'll trade the four first round picks back for players in another transaction.


That's the part that makes no sense to me. Once the deal is done and the Preds have those four picks, Philly has no incentive to trade back for them. So the only thing that the Preds could do is try to swing a deal before the seven-day deadline is up - offering not to match Weber's contract in return for players. That sounds totally weird to me. "If you give us these players we won't do anything. And maybe we'll give you some draft picks that will be coming our way in a few days."
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Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby MRandall25 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:15 pm

Tico Rick wrote:
pfim wrote:They'll trade the four first round picks back for players in another transaction.


That's the part that makes no sense to me. Once the deal is done and the Preds have those four picks, Philly has no incentive to trade back for them. So the only thing that the Preds could deal is try to swing a deal before the seven-day deadline is up - offering not to match Weber's contract in return for players. That sounds totally weird to me. "If you give us these players we won't do anything. And maybe we'll give you some draft picks that will be coming our way in a few days."


You can't trade players for Weber, as he is a Flyer as of right now. The only way to really make a trade would be for Nashville and Philly to agree the send players to Nash for Philly's 4 picks.
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Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby Tico Rick on Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:18 pm

I understand that Weber is a Flyer. So how can you trade a promise not to match a contract for players? And I don't see Philly trading any players to get those draft picks back. Like everyone else, they know that four very low #1s for Weber is a steal.
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Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby columbia on Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:19 pm

Tico Rick wrote:I understand that Weber is a Flyer. So how can you trade a promise not to match a contract for players? I don't see Philly trading any players to get those draft picks back. Like everyone else, they know that four very low #1s for Weber is a steal.


And if they don't agree, NSH can just match the offer.
If PHI wants him, they're going to have to pony up something better than those picks.

It's a game of chicken, right now.
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Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby MRandall25 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:21 pm

Tico Rick wrote:I understand that Weber is a Flyer. So how can you trade a promise not to match a contract for players? I don't see Philly trading any players to get those draft picks back. Like everyone else, they know that four very low #1s for Weber is a steal.


In exchange for taking Weber, Philly and Nashville will have to agree to swap the 4 picks Nashville receives for players...

It's not as complicated as you're making it. Philly could care less about the picks, but they just took Nashville's franchise player with an offer sheet. If Holmgren wants to continue doing business with other GM's, he'll make a deal.
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Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby mikey287 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:22 pm

steelhammer wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:I'd definitely rather have Weber than 4 picks in the 20-30 range.


1. Weber
2. High cap hit
3. Absurd contract length

vs.

1. Despres
2. Bennett
3. Morrow
4. Maatta

No thanks, I'll keep the late first round picks.


edit: typo


:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

No way!
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Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby pfim on Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:23 pm

Tico Rick wrote:I understand that Weber is a Flyer. So how can you trade a promise not to match a contract for players? And I don't see Philly trading any players to get those draft picks back. Like everyone else, they know that four very low #1s for Weber is a steal.


Weber isn't a Flyer yet.

The agreements are made up at the same time. If Nashville doesn't get confirmation that Philly will trade players back for them, they will sign the offer sheet and keep Weber.

If Philly re-negs on that agreement, they would find it very difficult to conduct business. And I'm sure the commish would get involved. Can't negotiate in bad faith like that.
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Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby MRandall25 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:24 pm

pfim wrote:
Tico Rick wrote:I understand that Weber is a Flyer. So how can you trade a promise not to match a contract for players? And I don't see Philly trading any players to get those draft picks back. Like everyone else, they know that four very low #1s for Weber is a steal.


Weber isn't a Flyer yet.

The agreements are made up at the same time. If Nashville doesn't get confirmation that Philly will trade players back for them, they will sign the offer sheet and keep Weber.

If Philly re-negs on that agreement, they would find it very difficult to conduct business. And I'm sure the commish would get involved. Can't negotiate in bad faith like that.


But Philly owns his rights right now, which is why Nashville just can't trade his rights in the first place.
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Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby pfim on Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:25 pm

Tico Rick wrote:I understand that Weber is a Flyer. So how can you trade a promise not to match a contract for players? And I don't see Philly trading any players to get those draft picks back. Like everyone else, they know that four very low #1s for Weber is a steal.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NH ... fer_sheets

See the chart and the compensations given, Chris Gratton the obvious example.
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Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby pfim on Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:28 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
But Philly owns his rights right now, which is why Nashville just can't trade his rights in the first place.


He's still a Nashville player until the end of the seven day period, in which they can choose to keep or relinquish his rights by accepting the terms of the offer sheet or not.

Philadelphia can't trade his rights either, as they don't hold them.
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Re: Flyers offer sheet Weber

Postby Tico Rick on Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:35 pm

pfim wrote:
Tico Rick wrote:I understand that Weber is a Flyer. So how can you trade a promise not to match a contract for players? And I don't see Philly trading any players to get those draft picks back. Like everyone else, they know that four very low #1s for Weber is a steal.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NH ... fer_sheets

See the chart and the compensations given, Chris Gratton the obvious example.


Thanks for that, pfim. That was pre-lockout though. I wonder if the current CBA makes things different... like including large sums of money, for example?

pfim wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
But Philly owns his rights right now, which is why Nashville just can't trade his rights in the first place.


He's still a Nashville player until the end of the seven day period, in which they can choose to keep or relinquish his rights by accepting the terms of the offer sheet or not.

Philadelphia can't trade his rights either, as they don't hold them.


If Nashville still holds his rights, can they trade them to a third team that can then match Philly's offer?
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