Thoughts on Weber...

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Re: Thoughts on Weber...

Postby Idoit40fans on Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:38 pm

penscup wrote:
Jasmine wrote:I seriously want this guy . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=L9vYuFaS-1k
Time to take no prisoners!


That was a total dirtbag move. Why would you applaud such an action?
You want someone doing that to Crosby???


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDIEKOm7z0s

I want someone with this kind of heart on my team. To bad he's softened up.
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Re: Thoughts on Weber...

Postby interstorm on Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:31 am

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/8179565/source-philadelphia-flyers-sign-nashville-predators-shea-weber-110-million-offer-sheet

Idoit40fans wrote:He will be gone by the end of day one of next year's draft, but he's not in control. He's a restricted Free Agent, if Nashville wants to keep him around this year, he's gonna be a Pred.


This is EXACTLY the type of move I was expecting...

interstorm wrote:he and his agent know that something must be done before the season starts. There is simply too much at risk for him.


A lot of people are blaming the Flyers here for something completely legal by NHL by-laws but I wouldn't be surprised if it was more Weber's agent finding a way to communicate with a few teams to force the issue. Like I said, this is the most important financial decision of Weber's life and given the possibilities on the future, there is no way he wouldn't allow something like this not to happen. I view this less as Philly poaching talent from a small market team and more of Weber and his agent forcing the issue on Nashville in order to get what they want.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. I honestly would be shocked if Nashville doesn't accept this offer and retain him. 4 first rounders are great (but you would have to imagine they would be later ones) but it isn't what they need. For a team looking to build an identity and grow a relationship with fans they simply cannot lose him (along with suter) and signal a total rebuild. If they were thinking of trading him for roster players (to make a more rounded team) they just took to long -- now their options are limited. It is Nashville's fault that the situation came to this - given the landscape it is obvious he was going to get paid one way or another this summer.
Last edited by interstorm on Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thoughts on Weber...

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:32 am

Yeah I can't blame the Flyers. You don't expose a player of that caliber to RFA.
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Re: Thoughts on Weber...

Postby HockeyDaddy on Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:26 am

penscup wrote:
Jasmine wrote:I seriously want this guy . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=L9vYuFaS-1k
Time to take no prisoners!


That was a total dirtbag move. Why would you applaud such an action?
You want someone doing that to Crosby???

Exactly, Jasmine. That is why Weber playing for the Flyers bothers me so much. This guy has a little bit of crazy in him and he could be playing for an organization that breeds it.
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Re: Thoughts on Weber...

Postby crush_lives_723 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:41 am

If/when the Weber is a member of the Philadelphia Filthbags, would NSH want to trade for Paul Martin, it has been noted that they expressed interest. Would we want to do that? A chance to move Martin would be a true blessing. Then we could comfortably sign Kubina or Coliocovo. BUT are we comfortable with this as our D core?...

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Re: Thoughts on Weber...

Postby JoseCuervo on Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:28 am

What? I don't think anyone is comfortable with despres on the first d-pair to start the season. There is already a large hole in the top 4 of the defense, and I don't think trading one of the 3 actual top-4 dmen on the team helps anything.
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Re: Thoughts on Weber...

Postby Pitts on Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:34 am

I'm really surprised no one has brought up the incredible prophetic nature of interstorm's original post.

Well done sir!
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Re: Thoughts on Weber...

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:04 am

JoseCuervo wrote:What? I don't think anyone is comfortable with despres on the first d-pair to start the season. There is already a large hole in the top 4 of the defense, and I don't think trading one of the 3 actual top-4 dmen on the team helps anything.


Yeah I don't want Martin on the Penguins, but I certainly don't want him moved right now unless something is in place to bring in another top 4 guy.
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Re: Thoughts on Weber...

Postby Sabres_Fan on Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:24 am

crush_lives_723 wrote:If/when the Weber is a member of the Philadelphia Filthbags, would NSH want to trade for Paul Martin, it has been noted that they expressed interest. Would we want to do that? A chance to move Martin would be a true blessing. Then we could comfortably sign Kubina or Coliocovo. BUT are we comfortable with this as our D core?...

Letang-Despres
Orpik-Niskanen
Dumoulin-Engelland (Strait/Bortuzzo/Morrow etc.)


If Nashville lets Weber walk for a 7.1 hit and then they trade for Martin with a 5 hit whatever fans the Preds still have would def jump ship
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Re: Thoughts on Weber...

Postby Luckybreak on Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:25 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
JoseCuervo wrote:What? I don't think anyone is comfortable with despres on the first d-pair to start the season. There is already a large hole in the top 4 of the defense, and I don't think trading one of the 3 actual top-4 dmen on the team helps anything.


Yeah I don't want Martin on the Penguins, but I certainly don't want him moved right now unless something is in place to bring in another top 4 guy.


That's the problem, theres no UFA improvement over Martin. Expect Martin to start season here unless Shero can work something with multiple players to somehow replace him AND fill the hole at wing...
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Re: Thoughts on Weber...

Postby JoseCuervo on Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:26 am

Sabres_Fan wrote:
crush_lives_723 wrote:If/when the Weber is a member of the Philadelphia Filthbags, would NSH want to trade for Paul Martin, it has been noted that they expressed interest. Would we want to do that? A chance to move Martin would be a true blessing. Then we could comfortably sign Kubina or Coliocovo. BUT are we comfortable with this as our D core?...

Letang-Despres
Orpik-Niskanen
Dumoulin-Engelland (Strait/Bortuzzo/Morrow etc.)


If Nashville lets Weber walk for a 7.1 hit and then they trade for Martin with a 5 hit whatever fans the Preds still have would def jump ship


are you boycotting punctuation?
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Re: Thoughts on Weber...

Postby Nizzy on Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:23 pm

Nashville will match. Suter might be the better player (I've heard both arguments) but it's harder to replace a big 6'4" defenseman that can do what he can. (Turn-buckel style Zetterberg head hit)

If Nashville doesn't match the franchise is over for the near future. I still think they can compete without Suter & Radulov. They have a ton of defensive prospects in Nashville.

Oh well if he leaves hopefully Quebec gets their team back :fist:
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Re: Thoughts on Weber...

Postby no name on Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:17 pm

Nashville will have to find ways to get to the cap floor if they lose Weber, taking on inflated contracts will help them, enter in Martin, you can trade him for someone of very little salary, but who still might be able to help us.
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Re: Thoughts on Weber...

Postby MRandall25 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:22 pm

no name wrote:Nashville will have to find ways to get to the cap floor if they lose Weber, taking on inflated contracts will help them, enter in Martin, you can trade him for someone of very little salary, but who still might be able to help us.


So we're going to replace a hole in our top 4 by trading away another top 4 d-man for nothing?
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Re: Thoughts on Weber...

Postby no name on Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:25 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
no name wrote:Nashville will have to find ways to get to the cap floor if they lose Weber, taking on inflated contracts will help them, enter in Martin, you can trade him for someone of very little salary, but who still might be able to help us.


So we're going to replace a hole in our top 4 by trading away another top 4 d-man for nothing?



Nothing??? Kevin Klein... would look good on our defence. Granted he will be UFA, but opened salary space with next season free agent class looking good. Also it opens space for trade deadline deals. Its an option... just and optioon/ I am sure Shero knows his options.
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Re: Thoughts on Weber...

Postby Tico Rick on Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:23 pm

Pitts wrote:I'm really surprised no one has brought up the incredible prophetic nature of interstorm's original post.

Well done sir!

Yes, indeed!
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Re: Thoughts on Weber...

Postby interstorm on Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:12 pm

...just reading into more of this. looks like there are 2 items out there regarding if this deal goes through:

1) flyers need to shed cap space
2) preds need to take on cap space

i almost wonder if the preds, while not really wanting to help philly out, take chris pronger's contract in exchange for yet another pick/player (basically philly saying, "i'll give you X (player/pick) if you take pronger -- you don't have to really give me anything (although it may take a 6th round pick or something to make it legit)". this then accomplishes both goals, especially if nashville DOESN'T put pronger on LTIR. he won't be playing a single game but his contract cap hit brings the team up some.

since the day philly signed pronger i'd said after he is done playing the flyers would move the contract to free up their cap and give it to a team that actually needs it (oddly enough, the dead weight cap hit without paying anything is an asset in a business sense). there may be no better partners than these two again.

we'll see how it plays out. i'm hoping weber doesn't go to philly but i did just read this (http://www.tennessean.com/article/20120720/SPORTS02/307200060/Analysis-Weber-tests-Preds-commitment?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|Sports|p):
Jarrett Bousquet, Weber’s agent, told AM-1050 in Toronto. “He would like to play with the Philadelphia Flyers because we all feel he’s just another piece in the puzzle to take them to the next level, and he doesn’t want to go through a rebuilding process again.”


i think what i find the most disturbing, however, is on this page - http://www.tennessean.com/section/SPORTS. Anyone notice it?
Spoiler:
The Nashville Preds are listed below high school football. They lose Weber, they lose what few fans they have left for sure!
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Re: Thoughts on Weber...

Postby Pitts on Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:51 pm

Pretty sure Pronger had an hard NTC. I would expect Nashville to want ONLY serviceable players back in any deal. They need to try to save face.

However, the more I read, the more I expect them to simply match the offer and keep Weber.
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Re: Thoughts on Weber...

Postby brwi on Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:55 am

interstorm wrote:i think what i find the most disturbing, however, is on this page - http://www.tennessean.com/section/SPORTS. Anyone notice it?
Spoiler:
The Nashville Preds are listed below high school football. They lose Weber, they lose what few fans they have left for sure!

The Nashville Preds are listed below high school football. They lose Weber, they lose what few fans they have left for sure!


"Few fans?" They averaged 16,690 a game this year which is 97% capacity and 20th in the NHL.
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Re: Thoughts on Weber...

Postby interstorm on Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:33 am

brwi wrote:
interstorm wrote:i think what i find the most disturbing, however, is on this page - http://www.tennessean.com/section/SPORTS. Anyone notice it?
Spoiler:
The Nashville Preds are listed below high school football. They lose Weber, they lose what few fans they have left for sure!

The Nashville Preds are listed below high school football. They lose Weber, they lose what few fans they have left for sure!


"Few fans?" They averaged 16,690 a game this year which is 97% capacity and 20th in the NHL.


Just this year the market share started getting respectable - before that it was pitiful (and yes, I know hockey in general isn't good and the Penguins TV ratings are atypical). Lose Weber and you lose many of these fans. More important, however, is the lack of growth to get more people interested.

http://predators.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=629247

Related - interesting to see market size and where each team ranks within the market. Data from 2010 but I would imagine it is still a good representation.
http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2010/04/local-on-eights-ratings-for-nba-mlb-and/
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Re: Thoughts on Weber...

Postby brwi on Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:48 am

interstorm wrote:
brwi wrote:
interstorm wrote:i think what i find the most disturbing, however, is on this page - http://www.tennessean.com/section/SPORTS. Anyone notice it?
Spoiler:
The Nashville Preds are listed below high school football. They lose Weber, they lose what few fans they have left for sure!

The Nashville Preds are listed below high school football. They lose Weber, they lose what few fans they have left for sure!


"Few fans?" They averaged 16,690 a game this year which is 97% capacity and 20th in the NHL.


Just this year the market share started getting respectable - before that it was pitiful (and yes, I know hockey in general isn't good and the Penguins TV ratings are atypical). Lose Weber and you lose many of these fans. More important, however, is the lack of growth to get more people interested.

http://predators.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=629247


With attendance increasing, how is that a "lack of growth?" Their building holds about 17,000 and were at 97.5% capacity the past season. corporate sponsorships are growing also according to ownership.

2009 14,975
2010 16,142
2011 16,690
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Re: Thoughts on Weber...

Postby interstorm on Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:00 pm

brwi wrote:With attendance increasing, how is that a "lack of growth?" Their building holds about 17,000 and were at 97.5% capacity the past season. corporate sponsorships are growing also according to ownership.

2009 14,975
2010 16,142
2011 16,690


Ok - just making sure I understand what you are defending? You are saying a team that has only been above 90% seating capacity twice since the 2001-2002 season AND last year drew a whopping 1.2 rating (equates to just under 30,000 people) in game 1 of the playoffs doesn't have (relatively speaking) only a "few" fans? Oh - and lets not forget the fact that high school football is listed prior to this professional team on their local newspaper website's sports section. Is that what you are saying?

C'mon - that 1.2 (playoff game) rating would have only beaten the average regular season ratings (from 2010) for the below teams:
San Jose - 1.11
New York (Rangers) - 0.89
Dallas - 0.74
Phoenix - 0.62
Tampa - 0.6
New Jersey - 0.58
Los Angeles - 0.48
New York (Islanders) - 0.36
Atlanta - 0.33
Miami - 0.25

Is that REALLY what you are saying?
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Re: Thoughts on Weber...

Postby brwi on Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:43 am

interstorm wrote:
brwi wrote:With attendance increasing, how is that a "lack of growth?" Their building holds about 17,000 and were at 97.5% capacity the past season. corporate sponsorships are growing also according to ownership.

2009 14,975
2010 16,142
2011 16,690


Ok - just making sure I understand what you are defending? You are saying a team that has only been above 90% seating capacity twice since the 2001-2002 season AND last year drew a whopping 1.2 rating (equates to just under 30,000 people) in game 1 of the playoffs doesn't have (relatively speaking) only a "few" fans? Oh - and lets not forget the fact that high school football is listed prior to this professional team on their local newspaper website's sports section. Is that what you are saying?

C'mon - that 1.2 (playoff game) rating would have only beaten the average regular season ratings (from 2010) for the below teams:
San Jose - 1.11
New York (Rangers) - 0.89
Dallas - 0.74
Phoenix - 0.62
Tampa - 0.6
New Jersey - 0.58
Los Angeles - 0.48
New York (Islanders) - 0.36
Atlanta - 0.33
Miami - 0.25

Is that REALLY what you are saying?


I am saying that a team that is growing in attendance and corporate sponsorships by 25% the last three years and plays at 97% capacity has more than a "few fans." I have no idea what TV ratings have to do with how many fans a team has or how that matters besides when it is time to negotiate a new TV deal. Whether the national/international market of hockey fans watches or not is really not indicative of how a franchise will do in its own city and is rather meaningless.

The vast majority of revenue for a NHL franchise is ticket sales, not TV or TV ratings.
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Re: Thoughts on Weber...

Postby JS© on Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:55 am

interstorm wrote:...just reading into more of this. looks like there are 2 items out there regarding if this deal goes through:

1) flyers need to shed cap space
2) preds need to take on cap space

i almost wonder if the preds, while not really wanting to help philly out, take chris pronger's contract in exchange for yet another pick/player (basically philly saying, "i'll give you X (player/pick) if you take pronger -- you don't have to really give me anything (although it may take a 6th round pick or something to make it legit)". this then accomplishes both goals, especially if nashville DOESN'T put pronger on LTIR. he won't be playing a single game but his contract cap hit brings the team up some.


Don't think you can trade a player that is on injured reserve.
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Re: Thoughts on Weber...

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:21 am

Is anyone even on IR during the offseason?
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