Preds looking to trade for top 4 Dman - Paul Martin?

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Re: Preds looking to trade for top 4 Dman - Paul Martin?

Postby sil on Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:09 am

Nizzy wrote:I'm not a Martin fan, people know this.

However you can't win a cup with 3 rookie defenseman in the lineup. We need him...


Do you really think that (2) rookie D + Martin could gives us a much better shot at winning a cup as opposed to (3) rookie D minus Martin?
sil
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,032
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:05 pm
Location: the Juice Case manufacturing plant

Re: Preds looking to trade for top 4 Dman - Paul Martin?

Postby Pavel Bure on Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:11 am

Lol @ a rookie being = to Martin
Pavel Bure
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,242
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:15 pm
Location: http://freebitco.in/?r=770437 BITCOINS get them

Re: Preds looking to trade for top 4 Dman - Paul Martin?

Postby columbia on Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:13 am

sil wrote:
Nizzy wrote:I'm not a Martin fan, people know this.

However you can't win a cup with 3 rookie defenseman in the lineup. We need him...


Do you really think that (2) rookie D + Martin could gives us a much better shot at winning a cup as opposed to (3) rookie D minus Martin?


Yes, I do.
columbia
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 48,407
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:13 am
Location: If you don't have a seat at the table, you're probably on the menu.

Re: Preds looking to trade for top 4 Dman - Paul Martin?

Postby Froggy on Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:13 am

Pavel Bure wrote:Lol @ a rookie being = to Martin

Yeah, I mean the level of Martin hate has crossed over from stupid to bizarre
Froggy
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,844
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:40 pm
Location: http://DrunkInAGraveyard.com

Re: Preds looking to trade for top 4 Dman - Paul Martin?

Postby darkstar57 on Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:24 am

Froggy wrote:
Pavel Bure wrote:Lol @ a rookie being = to Martin

Yeah, I mean the level of Martin hate has crossed over from stupid to bizarre


The martin hate has gone to ludicrous speed

darkstar57
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,029
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:13 pm
Location: A flute with no holes, is not a flute. A donut with no hole, is a Danish

Re: Preds looking to trade for top 4 Dman - Paul Martin?

Postby yubb on Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:28 am

I like how Martin is a top 4 Dman only when we're trying to trade him to another team.
yubb
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 728
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:28 am

Re: Preds looking to trade for top 4 Dman - Paul Martin?

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:33 am

Froggy wrote:MARTIN HAD A CONCUSSION IN THE PLAYOFFS LAST YEAR!

he wasn't playing scared, he was playing injured.


Thats great. Explain the prior 6 months.
Idoit40fans
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 53,601
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:42 pm
Location: I'm sorry you feel that way

Re: Preds looking to trade for top 4 Dman - Paul Martin?

Postby Froggy on Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:03 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
Froggy wrote:MARTIN HAD A CONCUSSION IN THE PLAYOFFS LAST YEAR!

he wasn't playing scared, he was playing injured.


Thats great. Explain the prior 6 months.

He was bad to start the season, and every criticism of that is valid. He was much better when he was split from michalek, and was actually really good when letang was out with a concussion. Then, when letang came back he sucked again, but so did everyone else.

I don't care about the criticisms of his play for the first half of the year. But singling him out for his performance in the playoffs is unfair
Froggy
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,844
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:40 pm
Location: http://DrunkInAGraveyard.com

Re: Preds looking to trade for top 4 Dman - Paul Martin?

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

He had about a month where he wasn't bad. I don't understand where your outburst came from, who was ripping him for his performance in the playoffs?
Idoit40fans
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 53,601
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:42 pm
Location: I'm sorry you feel that way

Re: Preds looking to trade for top 4 Dman - Paul Martin?

Postby sil on Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:19 am

Pavel Bure wrote:Lol @ a rookie being = to Martin


Who said they were equal?
sil
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,032
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:05 pm
Location: the Juice Case manufacturing plant

Re: Preds looking to trade for top 4 Dman - Paul Martin?

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:21 am

sil wrote:
Pavel Bure wrote:Lol @ a rookie being = to Martin


Who said they were equal?


Another good question. I have no idea what is going on in the last page or so of this thread.
Idoit40fans
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 53,601
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:42 pm
Location: I'm sorry you feel that way

Re: Preds looking to trade for top 4 Dman - Paul Martin?

Postby sil on Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:21 am

columbia wrote:
sil wrote:
Nizzy wrote:I'm not a Martin fan, people know this.

However you can't win a cup with 3 rookie defenseman in the lineup. We need him...


Do you really think that (2) rookie D + Martin could gives us a much better shot at winning a cup as opposed to (3) rookie D minus Martin?


Yes, I do.


My issue comes with seeing the team, even with 2 rookies and Martin, as being a true contender for a cup. When you already have 2 rookies eating playoffs minutes (if that is the hypothetical in question), what huge difference is Paul Martin going to make in putting that team over the top to beat a team like the LA Kings?

EDIT: And, ftr, I'd be saying this exact same statement if Paul was everything we all built him up to be in 2010, as opposed to what he's turned out to be for us.
Last edited by sil on Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
sil
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,032
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:05 pm
Location: the Juice Case manufacturing plant

Re: Preds looking to trade for top 4 Dman - Paul Martin?

Postby sil on Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:23 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
sil wrote:
Pavel Bure wrote:Lol @ a rookie being = to Martin


Who said they were equal?


Another good question. I have no idea what is going on in the last page or so of this thread.


What's going on (for some people in this thread) is a testament to poor reading comprehension. :pop:
sil
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,032
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:05 pm
Location: the Juice Case manufacturing plant

Re: Preds looking to trade for top 4 Dman - Paul Martin?

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:29 am

Relating to the LA Kings issue, there is no way they repeat. Came together at the perfect time just like the Pens when they won the cup. I expect their ceiling to be a repeat of the Pens' follow up.
Idoit40fans
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 53,601
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:42 pm
Location: I'm sorry you feel that way

Re: Preds looking to trade for top 4 Dman - Paul Martin?

Postby Froggy on Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:36 am

Idoit40fans wrote:He had about a month where he wasn't bad. I don't understand where your outburst came from, who was ripping him for his performance in the playoffs?

There was a post earlier, I think the last post on the previous page saying he was playing scared in the playoffs
Froggy
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,844
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:40 pm
Location: http://DrunkInAGraveyard.com

Re: Preds looking to trade for top 4 Dman - Paul Martin?

Postby sil on Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:41 am

Idoit40fans wrote:Relating to the LA Kings issue, there is no way they repeat. Came together at the perfect time just like the Pens when they won the cup. I expect their ceiling to be a repeat of the Pens' follow up.


Their defense (which is still pretty much intact) and netminding was very good all year. The offense turned it on late in the year. It'll be tough to repeat, but they didn't lose a whole lot of what made them very good.
sil
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,032
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:05 pm
Location: the Juice Case manufacturing plant

Re: Preds looking to trade for top 4 Dman - Paul Martin?

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:43 am

sil wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:Relating to the LA Kings issue, there is no way they repeat. Came together at the perfect time just like the Pens when they won the cup. I expect their ceiling to be a repeat of the Pens' follow up.


Their defense (which is still pretty much intact) and netminding was very good all year. The offense turned it on late in the year. It'll be tough to repeat, but they didn't lose a whole lot of what made them very good.


Doesn't matter, its just so hard to play that way for so long. I could see them having a season(month-to-month record-wise) to what the Pens did this year and then a disappointing playoff. I expect it actually.
Idoit40fans
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 53,601
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:42 pm
Location: I'm sorry you feel that way

Re: Preds looking to trade for top 4 Dman - Paul Martin?

Postby Pavel Bure on Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:57 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
Froggy wrote:MARTIN HAD A CONCUSSION IN THE PLAYOFFS LAST YEAR!

he wasn't playing scared, he was playing injured.


Thats great. Explain the prior 6 months.

He was played how we wanted him to for about. 4 of those months. Still a rookie is not preferable to Martin.
Pavel Bure
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,242
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:15 pm
Location: http://freebitco.in/?r=770437 BITCOINS get them

Re: Preds looking to trade for top 4 Dman - Paul Martin?

Postby sil on Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:04 pm

Pavel Bure wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:
Froggy wrote:MARTIN HAD A CONCUSSION IN THE PLAYOFFS LAST YEAR!

he wasn't playing scared, he was playing injured.


Thats great. Explain the prior 6 months.

He was played how we wanted him to for about. 4 of those months. Still a rookie is not preferable to Martin.


Who said a rookie was preferable?
sil
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,032
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:05 pm
Location: the Juice Case manufacturing plant

Re: Preds looking to trade for top 4 Dman - Paul Martin?

Postby mikey287 on Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:39 pm

DelPen wrote:Martin carries the puck all the time, what makes you say he isn't allowed to carry it? If anything he skates it to much into the offensive zone and gets caught out of position more than any other defensemen in the 2nd half last year.


I'm making the comparison to what Martin did in New Jersey. Martin would carry it from behind the net into the offensive zone...with us, it's not consistent with the Pens often depending on the forwards from their own blueline and forward. More centralized puck-lugging takes place when "transition" lines or "scoring" lines are on the ice as opposed to the grinders certainly, but Martin isn't as effectively used as he could be in that regard.
mikey287
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,504
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:40 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA - @MichaelFarkasHF

Re: Preds looking to trade for top 4 Dman - Paul Martin?

Postby Luckybreak on Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:41 pm

mikey287 wrote:
DelPen wrote:Martin carries the puck all the time, what makes you say he isn't allowed to carry it? If anything he skates it to much into the offensive zone and gets caught out of position more than any other defensemen in the 2nd half last year.


I'm making the comparison to what Martin did in New Jersey. Martin would carry it from behind the net into the offensive zone...with us, it's not consistent with the Pens often depending on the forwards from their own blueline and forward. More centralized puck-lugging takes place when "transition" lines or "scoring" lines are on the ice as opposed to the grinders certainly, but Martin isn't as effectively used as he could be in that regard.


I agree with both statements but, even if coaching strategy were modified to make the most of Martin's ability to carry the puck, his offensive ceiling is pretty much retricted to just that - carrying the puck then looking lost when crossing the other blue line. Or has an undisclosed injury limited his ability to shoot harder than an arthritic 70 year old?
Martin at his best is a safer defensive bet than the rookie option, but not key to a Cup run, and is somewhat detrimental to the team if his form follows last season. I'd be happy to run with the rookies if a vet can be obtained by the deadline, and who knows - perhaps one of the rookies will shine?
Luckybreak
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 853
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:57 am
Location: Ash UK

Re: Preds looking to trade for top 4 Dman - Paul Martin?

Postby Mongoose87 on Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:18 pm

Luckybreak wrote:
mikey287 wrote:
DelPen wrote:Martin carries the puck all the time, what makes you say he isn't allowed to carry it? If anything he skates it to much into the offensive zone and gets caught out of position more than any other defensemen in the 2nd half last year.


I'm making the comparison to what Martin did in New Jersey. Martin would carry it from behind the net into the offensive zone...with us, it's not consistent with the Pens often depending on the forwards from their own blueline and forward. More centralized puck-lugging takes place when "transition" lines or "scoring" lines are on the ice as opposed to the grinders certainly, but Martin isn't as effectively used as he could be in that regard.


I agree with both statements but, even if coaching strategy were modified to make the most of Martin's ability to carry the puck, his offensive ceiling is pretty much retricted to just that - carrying the puck then looking lost when crossing the other blue line. Or has an undisclosed injury limited his ability to shoot harder than an arthritic 70 year old?
Martin at his best is a safer defensive bet than the rookie option, but not key to a Cup run, and is somewhat detrimental to the team if his form follows last season. I'd be happy to run with the rookies if a vet can be obtained by the deadline, and who knows - perhaps one of the rookies will shine?

There's this thing called passing that the kids are doing, these days.
Mongoose87
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,908
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:04 pm
Location: The breakfast table of TRIUMPH!

Re: Preds looking to trade for top 4 Dman - Paul Martin?

Postby booboo on Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:35 pm

Froggy wrote:He was bad to start the season, and every criticism of that is valid. He was much better when he was split from michalek, and was actually really good when letang was out with a concussion. Then, when letang came back he sucked again


He is already split from Michalek.
So, all we need to do is to make sure Tanger is concussed and PM will not be a liability anymore.
Easy.
booboo
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,177
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:06 pm

Re: Preds looking to trade for top 4 Dman - Paul Martin?

Postby hockeymon on Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:55 pm

Mongoose87 wrote:
Luckybreak wrote:
mikey287 wrote:
DelPen wrote:Martin carries the puck all the time, what makes you say he isn't allowed to carry it? If anything he skates it to much into the offensive zone and gets caught out of position more than any other defensemen in the 2nd half last year.


I'm making the comparison to what Martin did in New Jersey. Martin would carry it from behind the net into the offensive zone...with us, it's not consistent with the Pens often depending on the forwards from their own blueline and forward. More centralized puck-lugging takes place when "transition" lines or "scoring" lines are on the ice as opposed to the grinders certainly, but Martin isn't as effectively used as he could be in that regard.


I agree with both statements but, even if coaching strategy were modified to make the most of Martin's ability to carry the puck, his offensive ceiling is pretty much retricted to just that - carrying the puck then looking lost when crossing the other blue line. Or has an undisclosed injury limited his ability to shoot harder than an arthritic 70 year old?
Martin at his best is a safer defensive bet than the rookie option, but not key to a Cup run, and is somewhat detrimental to the team if his form follows last season. I'd be happy to run with the rookies if a vet can be obtained by the deadline, and who knows - perhaps one of the rookies will shine?

There's this thing called passing that the kids are doing, these days.


When you carry the puck as the first player in the zone as a defenseman and there are 4 players behind you, those players have defensive responsibility. They fill in the spot until the defensive player gets back into play. That is hockey 101. he is not out of position like many of you keep saying. He actually carried the puck quite a bit from end to end n New Jersey on 5 on 5 and on the PP. And did that quite well.
But in Pittsburghs, there game plan they want the defenseman to pass the puck to the far blue line to be tipped into the zone, give up the puck, and let the forwards try to get it again. Really bad philosophy IMO to give up the puck. but it is the penguins game plan. There are some players that like to pass the puck tape to tape, like Malkin and Martin being one of them.
Until one of the rookies can play 22-25 minutes against Martin St. Louis, Vinny, Kovalchuk and do well , i for one would not give him up. Actually last year there were about 2 very good months when Z and Letang were out in succession when Orpik and Martin were on the PK and i believe at the time were the top in the NHL or close to it.
hockeymon
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:51 am

Re: Preds looking to trade for top 4 Dman - Paul Martin?

Postby Luckybreak on Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:44 am

Mongoose87 wrote:There's this thing called passing that the kids are doing, these days.


So why does Martin keep 'passing' to the opposition goalie? Point is Martin is a smooth skating puck carrier with a good first pass. As hockeymon said the system dictates flinging the puck up for a tip in at the blue line, therefore not using him effectively. It's like going to work and being told to do things you're not good at, then being criticised for not being good at them. Martin needs a massive confidence boost and I doubt that will happen here.
Luckybreak
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 853
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:57 am
Location: Ash UK

PreviousNext

Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests


e-mail