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There's alot of cap space league wide. Salaries have not gone up in relation to the cap as some suspected
steelhammer wrote:I don't understand how you can say that the Kings have the best collection of forwards in the league, unless you were being sarcastic? They could barely score at all last season.
Meanwhile the Pens have the two best players in the game, where third place is a distant 3rd. The best right wing in Neal (according to the NHL voting), one of the best overall d-men in the league in Letang, and finally an elite goaltender in Vokoun. It just seems like the Pens' weaknesses are being greatly exaggerated while those of the other team's are ignored. The Pens' have too much top-end strength to be ranked 9th, way too much.
André wrote:steelhammer wrote:I don't understand how you can say that the Kings have the best collection of forwards in the league, unless you were being sarcastic? They could barely score at all last season.
Meanwhile the Pens have the two best players in the game, where third place is a distant 3rd. The best right wing in Neal (according to the NHL voting), one of the best overall d-men in the league in Letang, and finally an elite goaltender in Vokoun. It just seems like the Pens' weaknesses are being greatly exaggerated while those of the other team's are ignored. The Pens' have too much top-end strength to be ranked 9th, way too much.
The roster is exactly what it was last year minus Michalek, Staal and Sullivan but plus Vokoun and Sutter. The second line wingers at the moment are Tangradi and Dupuis. I might be too hard on the Pens but not that much I think. Last year I had them first, and they've taken a step backward, while most or all of the teams ahead have gotten stronger compared to last year's roster.
André wrote:steelhammer wrote:I don't understand how you can say that the Kings have the best collection of forwards in the league, unless you were being sarcastic? They could barely score at all last season.
Meanwhile the Pens have the two best players in the game, where third place is a distant 3rd. The best right wing in Neal (according to the NHL voting), one of the best overall d-men in the league in Letang, and finally an elite goaltender in Vokoun. It just seems like the Pens' weaknesses are being greatly exaggerated while those of the other team's are ignored. The Pens' have too much top-end strength to be ranked 9th, way too much.
The roster is exactly what it was last year minus Michalek, Staal and Sullivan but plus Vokoun and Sutter. The second line wingers at the moment are Tangradi and Dupuis. I might be too hard on the Pens but not that much I think. Last year I had them first, and they've taken a step backward, while most or all of the teams ahead have gotten stronger compared to last year's roster.
steelhammer wrote:I don't understand how you can say that the Kings have the best collection of forwards in the league, unless you were being sarcastic? They could barely score at all last season.
Meanwhile the Pens have the two best players in the game, where third place is a distant 3rd. The best right wing in Neal (according to the NHL voting), one of the best overall d-men in the league in Letang, and finally an elite goaltender in Vokoun. It just seems like the Pens' weaknesses are being greatly exaggerated while those of the other team's are ignored. The Pens' have too much top-end strength to be ranked 9th, way too much.
brwi wrote:Those that think sutter is an improvement over Staal defensively(or anyway else) don't ever watch the Canes play. He's a good 3rd liner but he isn't Staal yet. I don't think Jordan is awesome and might even be overpaid a little, but he's better than Sutter in all areas right now. Sutter has room to grow and some upside, but so does Staal.
bhaw wrote:brwi wrote:Those that think sutter is an improvement over Staal defensively(or anyway else) don't ever watch the Canes play. He's a good 3rd liner but he isn't Staal yet. I don't think Jordan is awesome and might even be overpaid a little, but he's better than Sutter in all areas right now. Sutter has room to grow and some upside, but so does Staal.
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I'm fine with the trade that was made, but people claiming we won't miss a beat are sorely mistaken IMO. Sutter also has a concussion history, which no one seems to bring up.
I hope it's not too big of a difference, but I don't see Sutter making up for everything we lost in Staal.
mikey287 wrote:bhaw wrote:brwi wrote:Those that think sutter is an improvement over Staal defensively(or anyway else) don't ever watch the Canes play. He's a good 3rd liner but he isn't Staal yet. I don't think Jordan is awesome and might even be overpaid a little, but he's better than Sutter in all areas right now. Sutter has room to grow and some upside, but so does Staal.
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I'm fine with the trade that was made, but people claiming we won't miss a beat are sorely mistaken IMO. Sutter also has a concussion history, which no one seems to bring up.
I hope it's not too big of a difference, but I don't see Sutter making up for everything we lost in Staal.
Bingo. Staal did more for us than meets-the-eye almost his entire time here. Sutter has big shoes to fill...
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:steelhammer wrote:I don't understand how you can say that the Kings have the best collection of forwards in the league, unless you were being sarcastic? They could barely score at all last season.
Meanwhile the Pens have the two best players in the game, where third place is a distant 3rd. The best right wing in Neal (according to the NHL voting), one of the best overall d-men in the league in Letang, and finally an elite goaltender in Vokoun. It just seems like the Pens' weaknesses are being greatly exaggerated while those of the other team's are ignored. The Pens' have too much top-end strength to be ranked 9th, way too much.
Yes, it was clear during last years playoffs that his analysis was way way off. The Dupuis/Tangradi/cooke/Kenney/Glass/Jeffrey/Sutter/Adams bottom 8 forwards clearly cuts above LA having a solid 2nd, 3rd and 4th line because we have Crosby and Malkin.
Its clearly all the Pens haters out there over stating their weakness and not pens fans with black and gold goggles having a hard time admitting we are top heavy to a fault. On offense and defense.
In all seriousness I just dont get the posts blasting the Flyers 2nd line, or Michalek, or somehow these comparisons to Staal vs. Suter as if there will not be a drop off in overall talent there on offense or defense. I could touch on a lot of what you said in the posts but not sure it will matter, they did not have much reasoning so I will leave you with this. If you want to argue depth give me the Flyers, Kings or St. Louis line up missing a top 1 or 2 center and a top 1 or 2 wing and Ill give you ours:
Kennedy Malkin Neal
Jeffrey Sutter Dupuis
Cooke Vitale Tangradi
Glass Adams Uh Oh
steelhammer wrote:BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:steelhammer wrote:I don't understand how you can say that the Kings have the best collection of forwards in the league, unless you were being sarcastic? They could barely score at all last season.
Meanwhile the Pens have the two best players in the game, where third place is a distant 3rd. The best right wing in Neal (according to the NHL voting), one of the best overall d-men in the league in Letang, and finally an elite goaltender in Vokoun. It just seems like the Pens' weaknesses are being greatly exaggerated while those of the other team's are ignored. The Pens' have too much top-end strength to be ranked 9th, way too much.
Yes, it was clear during last years playoffs that his analysis was way way off. The Dupuis/Tangradi/cooke/Kenney/Glass/Jeffrey/Sutter/Adams bottom 8 forwards clearly cuts above LA having a solid 2nd, 3rd and 4th line because we have Crosby and Malkin.
Its clearly all the Pens haters out there over stating their weakness and not pens fans with black and gold goggles having a hard time admitting we are top heavy to a fault. On offense and defense.
In all seriousness I just dont get the posts blasting the Flyers 2nd line, or Michalek, or somehow these comparisons to Staal vs. Suter as if there will not be a drop off in overall talent there on offense or defense. I could touch on a lot of what you said in the posts but not sure it will matter, they did not have much reasoning so I will leave you with this. If you want to argue depth give me the Flyers, Kings or St. Louis line up missing a top 1 or 2 center and a top 1 or 2 wing and Ill give you ours:
Kennedy Malkin Neal
Jeffrey Sutter Dupuis
Cooke Vitale Tangradi
Glass Adams Uh Oh
Vegas gold goggles seem to see the same thing: http://www.vegasinsider.com/nhl/odds/futures/
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:steelhammer wrote:BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:steelhammer wrote:I don't understand how you can say that the Kings have the best collection of forwards in the league, unless you were being sarcastic? They could barely score at all last season.
Meanwhile the Pens have the two best players in the game, where third place is a distant 3rd. The best right wing in Neal (according to the NHL voting), one of the best overall d-men in the league in Letang, and finally an elite goaltender in Vokoun. It just seems like the Pens' weaknesses are being greatly exaggerated while those of the other team's are ignored. The Pens' have too much top-end strength to be ranked 9th, way too much.
Yes, it was clear during last years playoffs that his analysis was way way off. The Dupuis/Tangradi/cooke/Kenney/Glass/Jeffrey/Sutter/Adams bottom 8 forwards clearly cuts above LA having a solid 2nd, 3rd and 4th line because we have Crosby and Malkin.
Its clearly all the Pens haters out there over stating their weakness and not pens fans with black and gold goggles having a hard time admitting we are top heavy to a fault. On offense and defense.
In all seriousness I just dont get the posts blasting the Flyers 2nd line, or Michalek, or somehow these comparisons to Staal vs. Suter as if there will not be a drop off in overall talent there on offense or defense. I could touch on a lot of what you said in the posts but not sure it will matter, they did not have much reasoning so I will leave you with this. If you want to argue depth give me the Flyers, Kings or St. Louis line up missing a top 1 or 2 center and a top 1 or 2 wing and Ill give you ours:
Kennedy Malkin Neal
Jeffrey Sutter Dupuis
Cooke Vitale Tangradi
Glass Adams Uh Oh
Vegas gold goggles seem to see the same thing: http://www.vegasinsider.com/nhl/odds/futures/
Correct, of course that worked out well for the 2011-12 playoffs as well.
steelhammer wrote:BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:steelhammer wrote:BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:steelhammer wrote:I don't understand how you can say that the Kings have the best collection of forwards in the league, unless you were being sarcastic? They could barely score at all last season.
Meanwhile the Pens have the two best players in the game, where third place is a distant 3rd. The best right wing in Neal (according to the NHL voting), one of the best overall d-men in the league in Letang, and finally an elite goaltender in Vokoun. It just seems like the Pens' weaknesses are being greatly exaggerated while those of the other team's are ignored. The Pens' have too much top-end strength to be ranked 9th, way too much.
Yes, it was clear during last years playoffs that his analysis was way way off. The Dupuis/Tangradi/cooke/Kenney/Glass/Jeffrey/Sutter/Adams bottom 8 forwards clearly cuts above LA having a solid 2nd, 3rd and 4th line because we have Crosby and Malkin.
Its clearly all the Pens haters out there over stating their weakness and not pens fans with black and gold goggles having a hard time admitting we are top heavy to a fault. On offense and defense.
In all seriousness I just dont get the posts blasting the Flyers 2nd line, or Michalek, or somehow these comparisons to Staal vs. Suter as if there will not be a drop off in overall talent there on offense or defense. I could touch on a lot of what you said in the posts but not sure it will matter, they did not have much reasoning so I will leave you with this. If you want to argue depth give me the Flyers, Kings or St. Louis line up missing a top 1 or 2 center and a top 1 or 2 wing and Ill give you ours:
Kennedy Malkin Neal
Jeffrey Sutter Dupuis
Cooke Vitale Tangradi
Glass Adams Uh Oh
Vegas gold goggles seem to see the same thing: http://www.vegasinsider.com/nhl/odds/futures/
Correct, of course that worked out well for the 2011-12 playoffs as well.
The Pens and Blues should just forfeit next season. No hope whatsoever.
mikey287 wrote:Points:
- Yeah, they still seem a little off to me. But it's immaterial really. Line combos don't matter, depth is what matters. The combos will figure themselves out. In my notes, I have Thornton centering Marleau (LW) and Pavelski (RW) towards the end of the year, for whatever it's worth.
- Limited number of unrestricted free agents, especially this year. Some remain unsigned, both UFAs and RFAs. Prospects with bonus-laden contracts also to be considered. Long-term deals more and more common, free agency less and less common. Exisiting salaries can't jump with the Upper Limit, only new ones. The expectation is that "new" contracts will be amplified by the rising Upper Limit. Which you can make a quality case for. First example off the top of my head is a RFA, Sam Gagner. After 2010 season (0.22 G/G, 0.38 A/G season) he got 2 years, $2.275M/yr. After 2012 season (0.24 G/G, 0.39 A/G season) he got 1 yr, $3.2M. A hearty raise, though the Oilers were under no obligation to give him a raise (eligible for 100% qualifying offer). Salary cap figures, both Upper and Lower Limits, have a direct effect on player salaries. Nature of the marketplace.
- Additionally, hometown discount or "lesser" contracts accepted by two major free agents or would-be free agents: Sidney Crosby and Zach Parise. Also influence your numbers. Those salaries may not be indicative of market value.
brwi wrote:Those that think sutter is an improvement over Staal defensively(or anyway else) don't ever watch the Canes play. He's a good 3rd liner but he isn't Staal yet. I don't think Jordan is awesome and might even be overpaid a little, but he's better than Sutter in all areas right now. Sutter has room to grow and some upside, but so does Staal.
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