Complete roster overview and ranking

Forum for hockey posts that are not Penguins-related.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Complete roster overview and ranking

Postby André on Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:48 am

Like last year I've gone through and ranked all the rosters. This is more just that, a ranking of strength on paper, than my guess at the standings. Though to some extent it's both.

Unlike list year I've used Left Wing Lock's excellent tool (http://www.leftwinglock.com/line-combos/) to see what lines teams have used, so the lineups should be a bit more accurate this year. The cap numbers are from http://www.capgeek.com.

I've also added all players drafted in the first or second round for the last three years, to get a quick glimpse of the teams' prospect pools.

Also, I’ve dividied the teams into A, B and C categories

Some observations:
- There's alot of cap space league wide. Salaries have not gone up in relation to the cap as some suspected
- The Western Conference's top half is significantly stronger than the East's
- The Eastern Conference's position 6-12 should be a real snake pit
- The three teams that impress the least concerning roster strength in relation to salary are all Canadian (Calgary, Toronto and Montreal)
- Teams are really prioritizing the draft differently, as some haven't accumulated many high picks at all

Here's the same post from last year: http://www.letsgopens.com/scripts/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=54732&p=1808294&hilit=roster+ranking#p1808294
I was way off on Phoenix, Nashville, Ottawa and Montreal, but pretty happy with picking LA among the top teams. This year I'm standings wise most likely the most off with Phoenix, Nashville, Ottawa and New Jersey I guess.


A

1. St Louis Blues

Perron - Oshie - Backes
Tarasenko - Berglund - Stewart
Steen - McDonald - Schwartz
Langenbrunner - Sobotka - D'Agostini
Nichol, Reaves, Rattie, Kurker, Jaskin, Wannstrom

Pietrangelo - Cole
Jackman - Shattenkirk
Polak - Russell
Schmaltz, Edmundson

Halak
Elliot

Not far from LA's forward collection on paper and potentially just as good or better pretty soon. Sick depth and talent now that they're adding Tarasenko and Schwartz. I'm putting McDonald on the third line here. That’s three scoring lines. Defense looking great too altough they need to add a body or two. Maybe they're talking with Colaiacovo and that's why he hasn't signed anywhere yet. Someone should be added to team up with Pietrangelo. Two great goalies. The Blues are like a more seasoned Oilers team that also has the defense and goaltending. This is a young 109 point team that's gotten even better and still have tons of cap space. Scary.

Cap space: 16.65 mil

2. Los Angeles Kings

Brown – Kopitar – Williams
Penner – Richards – Carter
Gagne – Stoll – King
Clifford - Richardsson – Lewis
Westgarth, Nolan, Pearson, Toffoli

Scuderi - Doughty
Voynov – Mitchell
Greene – Martinez
Drewiske, Forbort

Quick
Bernier
Gibson

Best collection of forwards in the league. That’s sick offensive depth. Their fourth line scored in the playoffs (Lewis nine points for example). If Gagne’ll play much that’s just a bonus. Their group of defensemen doesn’t look that scary on paper but they have one of the very best and they did manage to win the cup giving up ridiculously few goals and ehm, yeah, that counts for something. Quick in my opinion best goalie in the world slightly ahead of Lundqvist. I had them seventh on my list last year and that was before the Carter trade and several of their players have risen a level. And this with Bernier as possible trade bait along with a nice buffer of cap space. Looking scarily good.

Cap space: 7.88 mil

3. Vancouver Canucks

Burrows – Sedin – Sedin
Raymond – Kesler – Booth
Kassian – Higgins - Hansen
Volpati - Malhotra – Lapierre
Ebbett, Weise, Gaunce, Mallet, Jensen

Edler - Bieksa
Garrison – Hamhuis
Ballard – Aberts
Tanev

Schneider
Luongo

Fantastic depth. I can’t find a weakness. If Kassian and Hansen continues to progress that’s three sweet lines. Having Malhotra and Lapierre form two thirds of your fourth lne is pretty sweet. Their defensive corps possibly the league’s best on paper. Schneider ready to roll. They underachieved last year (well, they won the President Trophy then lost to the champions...) but did have some health issues. The Sedins are running out of shots at the cup. This core is their chance.

Cap space: 2.43 mil before trading Luongo.

4. Boston Bruins

Marchand – Seguin – Bergeron
Lucic – Krejci – Horton
Caron - Kelly – Peverly
Thornton – Campbell – Paille
Savard, Khoklachev, Knight, Spooner

Chara – Seidenberg
Ference – Boychuk
Hamilton – McQuaid
Johnson, Krug

Thomas
Rask
Khudobin, Subban, Svedberg

An abundance of riches offensively gives them possibly the best top nine in the league after LA. Tremendous depth. No weaknesses anywhere really. They're perhaps the finest example of skill combined with grit.

Cap space: 1.33 mil.

5. Chicago Blackhawks

Stalberg – Toews – Kane
Hossa – Bolland - Sharp
Shaw – Kruger – Frolik
Bickell – Mayers – Hayes
Carcillio, Bollig, Saad, Teravainen, McNeill, Danault, Hayes, Rensfeldt

Keith – Seabrook
Hjalmarsson – Leddy
Montador – Odoya
Brookbank, Johns, Fournier, Clendening, Holl

Crawford
Emery
SImpson

These lines probably the least accurate so far. They juggled alot last year due to injuries. Considering those they had an impressive regular season. Awesome depth at forward and very good on defense as well. I thought they’d really have something going again last year but aforementioned injuries (especially to Toews of course) really crippled their chances. Now if only they could get a goalie. On paper they look like a prime candidate for Luongo but would the Canucks want them as trade partner? Not in the same division though, I guess I just associated them with a rivalry as they’ve bumped into each other in the playoffs so much.

Cap space: 7.75 mil

6. New York Rangers

Hagelin - Richards - Gaborik
Nash - Stepan - Callahan
Kreider - Halpern - Boyle
Rupp - Pyatt - Asham
Haley, Nieves, Miller, Thomas

Del Zotto - Staal
Girardi - McDonagh
Sauer - Stralman
Bickel, Skjei, McIlrath

Lundqvist
Biron

Not too shabby. Again they'll field a solid top nine that combines skill, two way competence and grit. Lots of the latter on the fourth line. Top six looking pretty sweet now after the Nash trade. Defense looking good as well. If Kreider, Stepan, Del Zotto, Hagelin and Staal continue to improve they've really got something. Lundqvist the second best goaltender in the world in my book.

Cap space: 11.69 mil before re-signing Del Zotto.

7. San Jose Sharks

Thornton – Pavelski – Marleau
Clowe – Couture – Havlat
Burish – Handzus – Wingels
Desjardins – Galiardi – X
Hertl, Tierny, Nieto, Coyle

Boyle – Vlasic
Stuart - Burns
Murray – Demers
Braun

Niemi
Greiss

Among the best top six’s around and they’ve got the cap space to fill out their bottom six. Very solid defensive squad and Niemi in net. On paper very strong. Sound familiar? Don’t see anything resembling a trend changer in San Jose but the roster’s great, no doubt.

Cap space: 5.57 mil.

8. Philadelphia Flyers

Hartnell – Giroux – Voracek
Simmonds - Schenn – Briere
Read – Couturier - Fedotenko
Wellwood – Rinaldo – Talbot
Shelley, Sestito, Zolnierczyk, Laughton

Coburn – Timonen
Schenn – Meszaros
Lilja – Grossman
Gervais, Bourdon, Pronger

Bryzgalov
Leighton
Stolarz

Great forward depth with a great mix of skill and grit. Tough bunch to play for sure. Defense looking solid even without Pronger (good swap with Toronto for Schenn as they had the offensive depth. Win win trade). If Bryzgalov steps up they’ll be a threat in the playoffs again just like they’ve been these last few years. Couturier and Schenn a year older, and watch for Giroux to solidify his position as third best player in the world. They’re pretty crowded up front if they re-sign their RFA’s and Holmgren isn’t exactly known for being idle.

Cap space: 2.55 mil before re-signing Wellwood and Rinaldo.

9. Pittsburgh Penguins

Kunitz – Malkin - Neal
Tangradi – Crosby – Dupuis
Cooke – Sutter – Kennedy
Glass – Adams – Jeffrey
MacIntyre, Vitale, Blueger, Bennett

Letang – Orpik
Niskanen - Martin
Depres – Engelland
Strait, Lovejoy, Pouliot, Maatta, Morrow, Dumoulin, Harrington, Sneep, Samuelsson

Fleury
Vokoun

I had them in first place last year but looking strictly at roster strength I don’t think I’m taking the Pens down too far, however. Staal, Sullivan and Michalek are gone, with Sutter and Glass being the only additions. Sutter is nice but no Staal, and Sullivan and Michalek simply leaves holes in the top six on forward and top four on defense that hasn’t been replaced at all. Goaltending’s improved though, and I really like getting Fleury some backup and competition. Crosby will be back with a full off season of training, from what we hear Malkin’s working hard again and the Pens are in a position for a trade with a plethora of great defensive prospects and cap space. At the moment though, in a strict ranking of roster strength, the Pens are weaker than last year, no doubt.

Cap space: 9.94 mil before calling up Tangradi.

10. Bufffalo Sabres

Vanek - Adam - Pominville
Leino - Ennis - Stafford
Gerbe - Ott - Hodgson
Scott - McCormick - Kaleta
Foligno, Ellis, Porter, Grigorenko, Girgensons, Armia

Regehr - Sekera
Leopold - Myers
Ehrhoff - Pardy
Weber, Sulzer, Brennan, McCabe, Pysyk

Miller
Enroth

Once again with great depth. Very exciting youngsters Adam, Ennis, Foligno and Hodgson team up with proven scorers Vanek, Pominville and Stafford. On the above line up I even have Foligno (13 points in 14 games) in the stands. Ott a nice addition. Don’t think they’ll miss Roy that bad. Defensive corps very strong. Don’t get how they messed up last year and think they’ll do very good this year.
Cap space: 8.66 mil before re-signing Brennan, Weber, and Ennis.

11. Washington Capitals

Ovechkin - Backstrom - Brouwer
Wolski - Ribiero - Johansson
Chimera - Perrault - Laich
Beagle - Hendricks - Ward
Crabb, Forsberg, Wilson, Kuznetsov

Hamrlik - Green
Wideman - Erskine
Schultz - Carlsson
Poti, Alzner, Hillen

Holtby
Neuvirth

What's happening? Another team that missed out on the goods. Don't get why they didn’t re-sign Semin now that they finally got a second line center in Ribiero. He wanted out of there or they wanted to shake things up? Wolski a good bang for the buck crap shoot, so it oculd work out though. But what to do with all those defensemen (altough that's a good problem to have)? And stick with a goalie already. Give (and I guess they will) Holtby the reins. Unleash Ovechkin again. Their best addition is getting Backstrom back, but I don't get their structure after the first line. I'm putting two natural centers on the second line in the above suggestion. Could be planning to make a move or two. Long term they could be gold though with Bäckström and Ovechkin on the first line, Forsberg with Kuznetsov on the second and Perrault with Johansson on the third. Boy must it suck to have Kuznetsov being hesitant to come over, however.

Cap space: 10.57 mil before re-signing Carlsson.

B

12. Minnesota Wild

Bouchard – Koivu – Parise
Heatley – Granlund – Setoguchi
Clutterbuck – Cullen – Brodziak
Powe - Mitchell – Konopka
Kassian, Dowell, Bussiers, Phillips, Lucia, Bulmer, Larsson, Zucker

Suter – Gilbert
Scandella – Spurgeon
Stoner – Falk
Prosser, Dumba, Brodin

Backstrom
Harding

Sweet top six and nine. Their three stars have great offensive support and Granlund is a budding superstar. Alot of teams would love to have Clutterbuck and Brodziak on their third line and Mitchell is a nice fourth line center. Very frontloaded however, as the the D after Suter and Gilbert is very unproven. Backstrom’s last two years are good but not great. Harding solid backup. Don’t see them contending unless they improve their D.

Cap space: 1.35 mil.

13. Detroit Red Wings

Zetterberg - Filppula - Samuelsson
Bertuzzi - Datsyuk - Franzen
Cleary - Helm - Brunner
Nyquist - Eaves - Abdelkader
Tootoo, Miller, Mursak, Emmerton, Frk (who has a name without a vowel?!), Jurco, Sheahan, Jarnkron

Smith - Kronwall
Ericsson - White
Kindl – Quincey

Prospect pool:
Oullet, Sproul

Howard
Gustavsson

Oh how the mighty might fall. Last year (or two years already) I had to calm people saying how the Wings were finally about to miss the playoffs. This year, that suggestion is not as premature. Offensively their top four of Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen and Filppula is pretty sweet but after them they're really aging or without depth. Returning Samuelsson had a nice year once again last season, though, so who knows. Offensively they're might still be fine. On defense, however, they haven't replaced Lidstrom and Stuart at all. Smith's a great up and comer but Kronwall, White and perhaps Quincey will really have to carry most of the workload. Howard better be as hot as last year or the Wings could be in for a challenge. I think their 100 point streak is in some real danger for sure. No doubt they were in the running for Suter and/or Parise and might really hurt after striking out. Their draft magic seems to have come to and end as well.

Cap space: 13.06 mil before re-signing Abdelkader.

14. Carolina Hurricanes

Semin - E. Staal - Tlusty
Ruutu - J. Staal - Skinner
Larose - Brent - Jokinen
Stewart - Welsh - Nodl
Rask, Wallace, Di Giuseppe, McGinn, Rask

McBain - Pitkanen
Faulk - Gleason
Harrisson - Corvo
Murphy, Alt

Ward
Boucher
Peters

Looking alot better. Great top six and nine. Tlusty a nice surprise offensively during the second half of last season which gives them the chance to play stack the first line and still get a sweet second line with for example Skinner and Ruutu with Staal Junior. I like the one year gamble on Semin. They can’t lose more than money. More than decent on defense and Ward is a stud in net. They were at exactly 0.500 last year so I can definitely see them battling for a low playoff seed.

Cap space: 12.92 mil before re-signing Welsh.

15. Winnipeg Jets

Ladd - Little - Wheeler
Kane - Burmistrov - Jokinen
Ponikarovsky - Antropov - Wellwood
Thorburn - Slater - Miettinen
Scheifele, Machacek, Cormier, Trouba

Byfuglien - Enstrom
Bogosian - Hainsey
Stuart – Clitsome
Postma, Sutter

Pavelec
Montoya

Now this is interesting. Very potent top nine on offense. Jokinen's a good addition and Kane and Burmistrov are a year older. I think they look very solid on defense, and Pavelec did prove himself as a reliable starter last year. Time for playoff hockey in Winnipeg again?

Cap space: 18.78 mil before re-signing Kane and Machacek.

16. Florida Panthers

Fleischman - Weiss - Versteeg
Mueller - Huberdeau - Bergenheim
Upshall - Goc - Kopecky
Mathias - Santorelli - Parros
Skille, Smithson, Grimaldi, Bjugstad, Howden, Mcfarland, Brickley

Campbell - Kulikov
Jovanovski - Gudbrandson
Kuba - Weaver
Ellerby, Matheson, Bengtsson, Petrovic

Theodore
Markstrom
Clemmensen

They've lost Garrison, Wolski and Samuelsson but added Mueller and Kuba, and more importantly guys like Kulikov, Gudbrandson, Huberdeau and Markstrom are one year older. There's alot to like here, with depth both at forward and on defense. Look for Markstrom to bench Theodore. Should go into the season with about ten mil in cap space. I think they should be able to repeat the 94 points they managed last year and I wouldn't love facing them in the first round.

Cap space: 16.46 mil before re-signing Kulikov (and with Markstrom in the minors).

17. Tampa Bay Lightning

St Louis – Stamkos – Purcell
Malone – Lecavalier – Connolly
Pouliot – Pyatt – Thompson
Hall - Tyrell – Wyman
Crombeen, Hart, Namestnikov, Kucherov

Brewer – Hedman
Carle – Salo
Bergereon – Lee
Ohlund, Mikkelson, Koekkoek, Blujus

Lindback
Garon
Vasilevksi

Great top six (especially if Connolly has a breakout year). Bottom six I don’t get at all however, as has been the case with Tampa Bay for some years now. Solid defense and Lindback’s legit. I think they’ll improve from last year and fight for a low playoff berth.

Cap space: 6.95 mil.

18. Edmonton Oilers

Hall – Eberle - Nugent Hopkins
Yakupov – Gagner – Hemsky
Paajarvi – Horcoff – Smyth
Eager – Jones – Hartikainen
Petrell, Hordichuk, Moroz, Pitlick, Marincin, Hamilton, Lander

Whitney - Petry
Smid – J. Schultz
Sutton – N. Schultz
Teubert, Potter, Peckham, Klefbom, Musil

Dubnyk
Khabibulin

Looking alot more interesting than last year considering the upgrade on D and addition of Yakupov They could use a more established defenseman and/or goalie, so we’ll see how it shapes out. Cap space not a problem. I (hope to) see them finally pushing for that low playoff spot.

Cap space: 14.4 mil.

19. Ottawa Senators

Michalek - Greening - Spezza
Silfverberg - Turris - Alfredsson
Latendresse - Zibanejad - Neil
Dauvgains - Smith - Condra
Regin, O'Brien, Noesen, Puempel, Prince

Phillips - Karlsson
Cowen - Gonchar
Methot – Lundin
Ceci

Andersson
Bishop
Lehner

One of the surprise teams of last year. I had them dead last actually. Several young players did better than expected, and they have plenty of chances for that happening again. Zibanejad and especially Silfverberg should get good opportunities. Spezza and Karlsson are studs, and Michalek should be solid again. Turris, Greening and Smith will have to repeat good performances though, and I don't get why they didn't keep Foligno. Alfredsson's back and he looked good last year. Pretty good prospects and a balanced lineup. Should be in the throng between 6th and 13th place in the east.

Cap space: 19.99 mil adding Zibanejad and Silfverberg.

20. Colorado Avalanche

Landeskog - O'Reilly - Downie
Stastny - Duchene - Parenteau
McGinn - Kobasew - Jones
McLeod - Mitchell - Olver
Hejduk, Hishon, Heard

Johnson - O'Brien
O'byrne - Hejda
Zanon - Wilson
Hunwick, Elliot, Barrie, Siemens

Varlamov
Giguere
Pickard

Now this is actually an interesting group of forwards. Landeskog and Duchene are studs, and they've got other interesting young players offensively. I'm even putting Hejduk in the stands here, as I don't know where to place him (that won't happen though, of course). Defense is so so I guess. Evenly spread out with pretty ok players but no real edge unless Johnson gets his game together. Watch for Elliot to make the roster sooner rather than later. Seven points shy of a playoff sport last year but they suffered some tough injuries and have strengthened their lineup. I say they'll battle for a low playoff berth.

Cap space: 16.14 mil before re-signing O'Reilly.

21. Dallas Stars

Eriksson – Roy – Jagr
Whitney - Benn – Ryder
Morrow – Fiddler – Glennie
Smith - Nyström – Vincour
Eakin, Petersen, Garbutt, Faksa, Winther, Shore, Ritchie

Goligoski – Robidas
Daley – Rome
Benn – Fistric
Dillon, Bystrom, Oleksiak, Nemeth

Lehtonen
Bachman
Campbell

Very potent top six. Rising stars Eriksson and Benn (!) teams up with Jagr, Whitney, Roy, a rejuvinated Ryder plus Morrow. Those seven will constantly battle not to be the odd man out of the top six I guess (probably Morrow vs Ryder). I could see them trying to move Morrow for a defenseman. Not that spectacular after that however and their defense is average at best. Lehtonen a stud in net though and they’ve got plenty of cap space. Pretty decent but looking past Eriksson, Benn and Goligoski I don’t see a clear plan for the future.

Cap space: 16.56 mil before re-signing Benn.

22. Calgary Flames

Cammalleri – Backlund - Iginla
Tanguay – Hudler –Cerevenka
Glencross – Stajan – Stempniak
Comeau – Bouma – Jackman
Blair, Jankowski, Bartschi, Granlund

Bouwmeester – Wideman
Giordano – Babchuk
Sariuch – Smith
Butler, Brodie, Sieloff, Wotherspoon

Kiprusoff
Karlsson

Same old Calgary. Strong defense on paper and alot of decent offensive forward depth without the real edge and with half decent productive forwards miscast on the lower lines. More edge than previously though now with Cammalleri back and Tanguay rejuvenated. Cerevenka and Backlund gambles for the top six. They should improve this season, but I don’t really like them.

Cap space: 3.51 mil.

23. New Jersey Devils

Kovalchuk - Henrique - Zajac
Elias - Zubrus - Clarksson
Carter - Josefsson - Bernier
Gionta - Janssen - Barch
Matteau

Zidlicky - Salvador
Larsson - Volochenkov
Greene - Tallinder
Harrold, Fayne, Severson, Merrill

Brodeur
Hedberg

A nice top five on offense in Kovalchuk, Elias, Henrique, Clarksson and Zajac (if he can rebound) but after them their forward strength is not very good at all. Defense looks solid though and Brodeur's back once again. Definitely one of those teams that won't stay put but rather actively pursue a roster move. On paper they’re just Parise away from the team that got 102 points and reached the finals, but still I see them in the throng battling for a low playoff berth in the east.

Cap space: 14.12 mil.

C

24. Anaheim Ducks

Perry - Getzlaf - Ryan
Palmieri - Koivu - Selanne
Smith-Pelly - Cogliano - Bonino
Beleskey - X - Staubitz
Rakell, Kerdiles, Karlsson, Etem, Smith-Pelly

Fowler - Beauchemin
Allen - Souray
Lydman - Sbisa
Guenin, Lindholm

Hiller
Fasth
Deslauriers, Gibson

Holes to fill, and nothing new that's significant (on offense). Something must happen, and if they do trade Ryan I hope for their sake they're getting some good return. Perry and Getzlaf must bounce back and they have to give some better support for Selanne to finally give that second line some edge (unless Palmieri or another prospect breaks through). Strong defense however and long term it looks good too with Fowler and Sbisa (and eventually Lindholm). Hiller's health concerns under control? Hard to say with the transition to the NHL but Fasth could be legit (better than Gustavsson).

Cap space: 16.14 mil (not counting Fasth and Lindholm).

25. Montreal Canadiens

Cole – Desharnis – Pacioretty
Bourque – Plekanec – Leblanc
Gionta – Gomez – Eller
Moen - Armstrong - Prust
Galchenyuk, Collberg, Nokelainen, White, Geoffrin, Palushaj

Markov – Emelin
Kaberle – Bouillon
Subban – Gorges
Weber, Diaz, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Thrower

Price
Budaj

I had them pretty high last year but now they’re dropping for sure. Pacioretty, Plekanec and Cole are legit but can Desharnis repeat his season? Gomez and Gionta got anything left? Prust and Moen should form a nice fourth line but looking at their forwards I don’t really see any great edge. Their defense on the other hand surprisingly strong. Nice mix of skill and solid defense. Price legit. They might surprise if they get some lines going offensively.

Cap space: 6.3 mil before re-signing Subban. Like Calgary they're really unimpressive in relation to how much they've spent.

26. Toronto Maple Leafs

Lupul - Bozak - Kessel
Van Riemsdyk - Grabovski - MacArthur
Kulemin - Connolly - Lombardi
McClement - Steckel - Frattin
Kadri, Brown, Ross, Biggs

Phaneuf - Gunnarsson
Komisarek - Liles
Franson - Gardiner
Holzer, Rielly, Percy, Finn

Reimer
X

Pretty interesting top six actually. I sticked with their successful first line from last year and then put together the best of the rest for the second line. Still alot of good offensive forwards without that real edge after Kessel. Maybe they can get that now though if Lupul follows up on last year and Van Riemsdyk continues to develop. Grabovski better live up to his new deal. Kulemin and Connolly better rebound. Defense looking ok though I'd guess they want someone more established than Gunnarsson to pair up with Phaneuf. And is Reimer really legit? Guess they're in the Luongo race. If they are, get him and he delivers maybe they could hope to sniff that final playoff spot. But nah, those are alot of ifs. I think they’ll be near the east’s bottom once again.

Cap space: 9.05 mil before re-signing Franson and getting a backup goalie. I think they join the Montreal and Calgary club in getting the least bang for the buck.

27. New York Islanders

Moulson - Tavares - Okposo
Niederraiter - Boyes - Grabner
Bailey - Nielsen - Cizikas
Martin - Reasoner – Boulton
Strome, Sundstrom, Nelson

Streit - Hamonic
Visnovsky - MacDonald
Carkner - Donovan
Reinhart, Pokka, Mayfield

DiPietro
Nabokov

They’ve improved but I’m still thinking bottom three in the east. Great potential in their top nine. Some of the younger guys must take another step forward, however. Niederraiter and Bailey (about time), and Grabner and Boyes must bounce back from poor seasons. On defense we've got a very strong top three or four but another another established player wouldn't hurt them. Whoever's in net it's a competent starter. There are some question marks for sure but I really do like the potential of their forward squad. Looking at the competition however, I don't see them making the playoffs.

Cap space: 22.43 mil before re-signing Martin.

28. Phoenix Coyotes

Sullivan - Hanzal - Vrbata
Korpikoski - Vermette - Gordon
Boedker - Moss - Torres
Chipchura - Johnson – Bissonette
Samuelsson, Martinook, Ruuttu, Lessio, Lane, Lindberg

Yandle - Morris
Ekman-Larsson - Michalek
Klesla - Stone
Schlemko, Summers, Murphy, Gomley

Smith
Labarbera
Visentin

Together with Nashville a team that has performed alot better than what their paper suggests. Just like the latter they've lost some key material now however. Whitney's gone, Rozsival is gone, Langkow is gone, Brule is gone, Doan might be gone. Defense looks very solid but their collection of forwards is weak to say the least, and can Smith repeat what he did last year?

Cap space: 25.37 mil before re-signing Summers.

29. Nashville Predators

Kostitsyn - Fisher - Erat
Hornqvist - Legwand - Wilson
Bourque - Gaustad - Smith
Halischuk - Spaling - Yip
Mcgrattan, MacLellan, Aberg, Sissons, Salomaki, Watson

Weber - Josi
Klein - Gill
Hannan - Ellis
Ekholm

Rinne
Mason
Hellberg

Together with Phoenix and Ottawa they were the team I underestimated the most last year. Then again this is more a ranking of roster strength than my guess at position in the standings, so I just couldn't have them very high. This year it's even worse of course. They've got some glaring holes to fill and really just two elite players in Rinne and Weber. The rest is alot of so so that gave them evenly balanced lines that combined with a great system gave them success. Right now however I just don't see the material to perform that well again.

Cap space: 15.49 mil.

30. Columbus Blue Jackets

Dubinsky - Brassard - Anisimov
Prospal - Johanssen - Foligno
Dorsette - Vermette - Umberger
Letestu - MacKenzie - Boll
Atkinson, Gillies, Russell, Jenner, Smith, Straka

Johnson - Wisniewski
Tyutin - Aucoin
Nikitin - Moore
Murray, Erixon, Prout

Bobrovsky
Mason
York, Dansk

Brassard, Johanssen, Dubinsky, Anisimov and Foligno somewhat interesting but the top nine is semi-average at best. The D-corps definitely upgraded but with this collection of forwards and two backup goalies competing to become the starter I don't see the Jackets leaving the cellar. They re-builded to soon and got too little in return for Nash. In relation to their roster strength they should have more cap space. Hopefully for them Murray and Erixon are legit.

Cap space: 12.6 mil.

This would give us the following standings (East had to be adjusted for the division seeding):

Western Conference:

1. St Louis Blues
2. Los Angeles Kings
3. Vancouver Canucks
4. Chicago Blackhawks
5. San Jose Sharks
6. Minnesota Wild
7. Detroit Red Wings
8. Edmonton Oilers
9. Colorado Avalanche
10. Dallas Stars
11. Calgary Flames
12. Anaheim Ducks
13. Phoenix Coyotes
14. Nashville Predators
15. Columbus Blue Jackets

Eastern Conference:

1. Boston Bruins
2. New York Rangers
3. Washington Capitals
4. Philadelphia Flyers
5. Pittsburgh Penguins
6. Buffalo Sabres
7. Carolina Hurricanes
8. Winnipeg Jets
9. Florida Panthers
10. Tampa Bay Lightning
11. Ottawa Senators
12. New Jersey Devils
13. Montreal Canadians
14. Toronto Maple Leafs
15. New York Islanders
Last edited by André on Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:41 am, edited 3 times in total.
André
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,286
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:51 am
Location: Gävle, Sweden

Re: Complete roster overview and ranking

Postby brwi on Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:48 am

Thanks for your analysis and the time you put in to do this. Of course, I think you're way wrong on a few :D , but that makes for a discussion.

I don't think STL is that close to being #1, you got the Sabres and Oilers way higher than I would, and the Coyotes and Preds way, way too low. I also wouldn't put the Jets in the top-8 in the East as their blueline is still iffy and Pavelec has shown that he has lots of bouts with inconsistency mixed in with moments of stellar goaltending. Their depth also just isn't there yet. Senators at #11 in the East? Can't agree with that either.

Definitely agree that the top half of the West looks a LOT better than the top half of the East.

Great stuff, especially digging around for the cap figures to go along with your rankings.
brwi
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,125
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:36 am

Re: Complete roster overview and ranking

Postby steelhammer on Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:42 am

I don't understand how you can say that the Kings have the best collection of forwards in the league, unless you were being sarcastic? They could barely score at all last season.

Meanwhile the Pens have the two best players in the game, where third place is a distant 3rd. The best right wing in Neal (according to the NHL voting), one of the best overall d-men in the league in Letang, and finally an elite goaltender in Vokoun. It just seems like the Pens' weaknesses are being greatly exaggerated while those of the other team's are ignored. The Pens' have too much top-end strength to be ranked 9th, way too much.
steelhammer
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,279
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:31 am
Location: Hold on, I have a stat for that.

Re: Complete roster overview and ranking

Postby mikey287 on Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:04 am

There's alot of cap space league wide. Salaries have not gone up in relation to the cap as some suspected


This is very specious reasoning.

Other than that, nice job on the long post. The line combos are a little goofy, I'm surprised that LWL produced such results. But that's not really the point. Nice work, certainly some debatable points, but by and large it's well done. Thank you.
mikey287
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,516
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:40 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA - @MichaelFarkasHF

Re: Complete roster overview and ranking

Postby André on Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:35 am

Heck, of course there are tons of points you can single out and disagree with, but when you list all teams there are just as many tough choices. Don't see it as too set in stone. Blast away, give me your predicted standings. Or ranking of roster strenght on paper, again it's not the same thing. Nashville and Phoenix are prime examples of that.

Mikey287: About LWL I was surprised at times too. But when their page show Name - Name - Name I assume that's LW-C-RW? And with the teams I've watched it was familiar. I was very surprised to see Thornton spent alot of time as LW, however (that's the biggest example I think).

On the cap space: The maximum amount for an individual contract now is 14 mil. Some suspected salaries, including for the top players, rising along with the cap. That hasn't happened.
Last edited by André on Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
André
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,286
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:51 am
Location: Gävle, Sweden

Re: Complete roster overview and ranking

Postby André on Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:38 am

steelhammer wrote:I don't understand how you can say that the Kings have the best collection of forwards in the league, unless you were being sarcastic? They could barely score at all last season.

Meanwhile the Pens have the two best players in the game, where third place is a distant 3rd. The best right wing in Neal (according to the NHL voting), one of the best overall d-men in the league in Letang, and finally an elite goaltender in Vokoun. It just seems like the Pens' weaknesses are being greatly exaggerated while those of the other team's are ignored. The Pens' have too much top-end strength to be ranked 9th, way too much.


The roster is exactly what it was last year minus Michalek, Staal and Sullivan but plus Vokoun and Sutter. The second line wingers at the moment are Tangradi and Dupuis. I might be too hard on the Pens but not that much I think. Last year I had them first, and they've taken a step backward, while most or all of the teams ahead have gotten stronger compared to last year's roster.
André
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,286
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:51 am
Location: Gävle, Sweden

Re: Complete roster overview and ranking

Postby steelhammer on Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:04 pm

André wrote:
steelhammer wrote:I don't understand how you can say that the Kings have the best collection of forwards in the league, unless you were being sarcastic? They could barely score at all last season.

Meanwhile the Pens have the two best players in the game, where third place is a distant 3rd. The best right wing in Neal (according to the NHL voting), one of the best overall d-men in the league in Letang, and finally an elite goaltender in Vokoun. It just seems like the Pens' weaknesses are being greatly exaggerated while those of the other team's are ignored. The Pens' have too much top-end strength to be ranked 9th, way too much.


The roster is exactly what it was last year minus Michalek, Staal and Sullivan but plus Vokoun and Sutter. The second line wingers at the moment are Tangradi and Dupuis. I might be too hard on the Pens but not that much I think. Last year I had them first, and they've taken a step backward, while most or all of the teams ahead have gotten stronger compared to last year's roster.


- In a 3rd line center role, replacing Staal with Sutter isn't that much of a drop at all both in offense and defense. If Sutter can get 40-45 points in the 3rd line role, there will be almost no change at all from Staal as the 3rd line center. It will probably be an improvement in defense actually. http://hockeyanalysis.com/2012/06/23/jordan-staal-vs-brandon-sutter/

- Sullivan was weak defensively. He just was. Additionally, he lacked the finishing touch the Pens need for a top-6 player. He was okay on the left point, but 43.8% of his points came on the PP. Given that and his weak defense, he was not exactly an asset at even strength.

- Michalek did not have a good year. He led the defensemen with ESGA/60. If you are looking for his quality of competition numbers to justify this ranking, well, they don't help that much. Now, an area where he really did excel was on the PK, and yes, that will be hard to replace.

- The addition of Vokoun literally addresses the Pens biggest positional weakness last season (horrendous backup goaltending and only slighlty above average starting goaltending). This is a major plus for the Pens.

So the way I see it, we got weaker in the PK but everything else should be no worse than equal to last season. We are much stronger in goaltending now and we should quite comfortably lead the league in goal scoring next season (as we did last season with 25% of the games with Crosby). I think we are going to see Crosby at a level we have never seen before, Neal could still theoretically improve as he is only 24, and hopefully continued development of Letang, Niskanen, Despres, Vitale, Fleury, Kennedy, etc. If the other players can maintain their form from last season and Martin gets back on track, we are still a cup favorite team IMHO.
steelhammer
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,279
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:31 am
Location: Hold on, I have a stat for that.

Re: Complete roster overview and ranking

Postby Zach6668 on Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:20 pm

André wrote:
steelhammer wrote:I don't understand how you can say that the Kings have the best collection of forwards in the league, unless you were being sarcastic? They could barely score at all last season.

Meanwhile the Pens have the two best players in the game, where third place is a distant 3rd. The best right wing in Neal (according to the NHL voting), one of the best overall d-men in the league in Letang, and finally an elite goaltender in Vokoun. It just seems like the Pens' weaknesses are being greatly exaggerated while those of the other team's are ignored. The Pens' have too much top-end strength to be ranked 9th, way too much.


The roster is exactly what it was last year minus Michalek, Staal and Sullivan but plus Vokoun and Sutter. The second line wingers at the moment are Tangradi and Dupuis. I might be too hard on the Pens but not that much I think. Last year I had them first, and they've taken a step backward, while most or all of the teams ahead have gotten stronger compared to last year's roster.


I mean, I don't really think this is true.

We're adding Despres full time, we're giving Niskanen a bigger role, both of which were earned trough excellent play. Yes, we're losing Michalek, but it's not like he's being replaced with nobody. And we're replacing Niskanen and Despres's previous roles internally.

With regards to the forward side, Sutter is an excellent replacement for Staal, when you consider Crosby will be playin in game #1. Glass replaces Asham nicely. Sullivan has yet to be technically replaced, but there are internal options, plus cap space. Tangradi moving tina full time NHL spot would be a decent replacement. It's not like Sullivan is so irreplaceable.

I think people are focussing too much in the playoff disaster, and forgetting how good of a regular season this team had, mostly without the best player in the game. Yes, playoffs are important, but the sample size is meaningless, and it was clear the team didn't play their best game, which should be corrected over the course of the upcoming camp and season.


Anyways, lots to digest with your post, and I like a lot of it. Thanks for giving me something interesting to read.

Wanted to point out, though that Coyle was traded to the Wild, you have him listed on the Sharks. He's got a decent chance to make the team, but more likely the first call up, I think.
Zach6668
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,459
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:29 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON, formerly Thunder Bay, ON

Re: Complete roster overview and ranking

Postby Zach6668 on Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:22 pm

Meant to add, I think you can expect a better season from Paul Martin, offsetting some of the perceived losses on D.
Zach6668
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,459
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:29 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON, formerly Thunder Bay, ON

Re: Complete roster overview and ranking

Postby steelhammer on Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:39 pm

And since this isn't all about Pittsburgh, lets look at the Flyers a little more closely:

- 2nd line is a joke. Simmonds has never hit 50 points in his career. Briere is coming off of a career low last season in terms of production (16 goals, 49 points in 70 games). Schenn is beyond unproven. He had a couple (emphasis added) good playoff games and now he is their 2nd line center? The dropoff from the 1st line is massive.
- Defense is even worse. Don't forget they lost Meszaros for the season and Lilja is out or a while too. Timmonen is not getting any younger (or better). The other Schenn hasn't really impressed anyone so far either.
- Goaltending, I probably don't even need to write anything about this.
- Losses: Jagr, JVR, Bobrovsky.
- Prospect depth: generally regarding as the worst in the league.
steelhammer
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,279
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:31 am
Location: Hold on, I have a stat for that.

Re: Complete roster overview and ranking

Postby mikey287 on Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:44 pm

Points:

- Yeah, they still seem a little off to me. But it's immaterial really. Line combos don't matter, depth is what matters. The combos will figure themselves out. In my notes, I have Thornton centering Marleau (LW) and Pavelski (RW) towards the end of the year, for whatever it's worth.

- Limited number of unrestricted free agents, especially this year. Some remain unsigned, both UFAs and RFAs. Prospects with bonus-laden contracts also to be considered. Long-term deals more and more common, free agency less and less common. Exisiting salaries can't jump with the Upper Limit, only new ones. The expectation is that "new" contracts will be amplified by the rising Upper Limit. Which you can make a quality case for. First example off the top of my head is a RFA, Sam Gagner. After 2010 season (0.22 G/G, 0.38 A/G season) he got 2 years, $2.275M/yr. After 2012 season (0.24 G/G, 0.39 A/G season) he got 1 yr, $3.2M. A hearty raise, though the Oilers were under no obligation to give him a raise (eligible for 100% qualifying offer). Salary cap figures, both Upper and Lower Limits, have a direct effect on player salaries. Nature of the marketplace.

- Additionally, hometown discount or "lesser" contracts accepted by two major free agents or would-be free agents: Sidney Crosby and Zach Parise. Also influence your numbers. Those salaries may not be indicative of market value.

- I hope those fractions of a percent ring true for Sutter being better than Staal defensively. Staal did some of the heaviest lifting in the league last year...Sutter is a fine player, but I think we're going to miss a Staal a little more than those fractions and decimals make it out to be...I guess we'll find out...if Sutter is 0.896 as good as Staal, I'd be ecstatic.

- We have to, above all, hope that Bylsma didn't lose the team all together during the last month of the season and the playoffs. And that he can successfully implement adjustments that bring out the best of his new players and their new roles. Otherwise, the personnel on the ice matters little.
mikey287
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,516
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:40 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA - @MichaelFarkasHF

Re: Complete roster overview and ranking

Postby brwi on Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:00 pm

Those that think sutter is an improvement over Staal defensively(or anyway else) don't ever watch the Canes play. He's a good 3rd liner but he isn't Staal yet. I don't think Jordan is awesome and might even be overpaid a little, but he's better than Sutter in all areas right now. Sutter has room to grow and some upside, but so does Staal.
brwi
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,125
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:36 am

Re: Complete roster overview and ranking

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:52 pm

steelhammer wrote:I don't understand how you can say that the Kings have the best collection of forwards in the league, unless you were being sarcastic? They could barely score at all last season.

Meanwhile the Pens have the two best players in the game, where third place is a distant 3rd. The best right wing in Neal (according to the NHL voting), one of the best overall d-men in the league in Letang, and finally an elite goaltender in Vokoun. It just seems like the Pens' weaknesses are being greatly exaggerated while those of the other team's are ignored. The Pens' have too much top-end strength to be ranked 9th, way too much.


Yes, it was clear during last years playoffs that his analysis was way way off. The Dupuis/Tangradi/cooke/Kenney/Glass/Jeffrey/Sutter/Adams bottom 8 forwards clearly cuts above LA having a solid 2nd, 3rd and 4th line because we have Crosby and Malkin.

Its clearly all the Pens haters out there over stating their weakness and not pens fans with black and gold goggles having a hard time admitting we are top heavy to a fault. On offense and defense.

In all seriousness I just dont get the posts blasting the Flyers 2nd line, or Michalek, or somehow these comparisons to Staal vs. Suter as if there will not be a drop off in overall talent there on offense or defense. I could touch on a lot of what you said in the posts but not sure it will matter, they did not have much reasoning so I will leave you with this. If you want to argue depth give me the Flyers, Kings or St. Louis line up missing a top 1 or 2 center and a top 1 or 2 wing and Ill give you ours:

Kennedy Malkin Neal
Jeffrey Sutter Dupuis
Cooke Vitale Tangradi
Glass Adams Uh Oh
Last edited by BurghersAndDogsSports on Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
BurghersAndDogsSports
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,043
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:42 am
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa

Re: Complete roster overview and ranking

Postby bhaw on Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:06 pm

brwi wrote:Those that think sutter is an improvement over Staal defensively(or anyway else) don't ever watch the Canes play. He's a good 3rd liner but he isn't Staal yet. I don't think Jordan is awesome and might even be overpaid a little, but he's better than Sutter in all areas right now. Sutter has room to grow and some upside, but so does Staal.


:thumb:

I'm fine with the trade that was made, but people claiming we won't miss a beat are sorely mistaken IMO. Sutter also has a concussion history, which no one seems to bring up.

I hope it's not too big of a difference, but I don't see Sutter making up for everything we lost in Staal.
bhaw
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 26,983
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:00 pm
Location: From Hockey Siberia to Hockey Hell

Re: Complete roster overview and ranking

Postby mikey287 on Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:11 pm

bhaw wrote:
brwi wrote:Those that think sutter is an improvement over Staal defensively(or anyway else) don't ever watch the Canes play. He's a good 3rd liner but he isn't Staal yet. I don't think Jordan is awesome and might even be overpaid a little, but he's better than Sutter in all areas right now. Sutter has room to grow and some upside, but so does Staal.


:thumb:

I'm fine with the trade that was made, but people claiming we won't miss a beat are sorely mistaken IMO. Sutter also has a concussion history, which no one seems to bring up.

I hope it's not too big of a difference, but I don't see Sutter making up for everything we lost in Staal.


Bingo. Staal did more for us than meets-the-eye almost his entire time here. Sutter has big shoes to fill...
mikey287
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,516
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:40 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA - @MichaelFarkasHF

Re: Complete roster overview and ranking

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:15 pm

mikey287 wrote:
bhaw wrote:
brwi wrote:Those that think sutter is an improvement over Staal defensively(or anyway else) don't ever watch the Canes play. He's a good 3rd liner but he isn't Staal yet. I don't think Jordan is awesome and might even be overpaid a little, but he's better than Sutter in all areas right now. Sutter has room to grow and some upside, but so does Staal.


:thumb:

I'm fine with the trade that was made, but people claiming we won't miss a beat are sorely mistaken IMO. Sutter also has a concussion history, which no one seems to bring up.

I hope it's not too big of a difference, but I don't see Sutter making up for everything we lost in Staal.


Bingo. Staal did more for us than meets-the-eye almost his entire time here. Sutter has big shoes to fill...


I am in agreement with both posts. I have no problem with the Staal trade for various reasons, but he played an important role as a 3rd line center and as a solid injury replacement on the top 2 lines. Very important and will be missed.
BurghersAndDogsSports
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,043
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:42 am
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa

Re: Complete roster overview and ranking

Postby bhaw on Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:24 pm

Teams had to game plan around Sid, Malkin, Staal. I doubt they have to put the same time and effort into Sid, Malkin, Sutter.
bhaw
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 26,983
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:00 pm
Location: From Hockey Siberia to Hockey Hell

Re: Complete roster overview and ranking

Postby columbia on Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:27 pm

Thank goodness that Staal was such a team guy and couldn't wait to finish his career in PGH.
columbia
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 45,267
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:13 am

Re: Complete roster overview and ranking

Postby steelhammer on Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:28 pm

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
steelhammer wrote:I don't understand how you can say that the Kings have the best collection of forwards in the league, unless you were being sarcastic? They could barely score at all last season.

Meanwhile the Pens have the two best players in the game, where third place is a distant 3rd. The best right wing in Neal (according to the NHL voting), one of the best overall d-men in the league in Letang, and finally an elite goaltender in Vokoun. It just seems like the Pens' weaknesses are being greatly exaggerated while those of the other team's are ignored. The Pens' have too much top-end strength to be ranked 9th, way too much.


Yes, it was clear during last years playoffs that his analysis was way way off. The Dupuis/Tangradi/cooke/Kenney/Glass/Jeffrey/Sutter/Adams bottom 8 forwards clearly cuts above LA having a solid 2nd, 3rd and 4th line because we have Crosby and Malkin.

Its clearly all the Pens haters out there over stating their weakness and not pens fans with black and gold goggles having a hard time admitting we are top heavy to a fault. On offense and defense.

In all seriousness I just dont get the posts blasting the Flyers 2nd line, or Michalek, or somehow these comparisons to Staal vs. Suter as if there will not be a drop off in overall talent there on offense or defense. I could touch on a lot of what you said in the posts but not sure it will matter, they did not have much reasoning so I will leave you with this. If you want to argue depth give me the Flyers, Kings or St. Louis line up missing a top 1 or 2 center and a top 1 or 2 wing and Ill give you ours:

Kennedy Malkin Neal
Jeffrey Sutter Dupuis
Cooke Vitale Tangradi
Glass Adams Uh Oh


Vegas gold goggles seem to see the same thing: http://www.vegasinsider.com/nhl/odds/futures/
steelhammer
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,279
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:31 am
Location: Hold on, I have a stat for that.

Re: Complete roster overview and ranking

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:53 pm

steelhammer wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
steelhammer wrote:I don't understand how you can say that the Kings have the best collection of forwards in the league, unless you were being sarcastic? They could barely score at all last season.

Meanwhile the Pens have the two best players in the game, where third place is a distant 3rd. The best right wing in Neal (according to the NHL voting), one of the best overall d-men in the league in Letang, and finally an elite goaltender in Vokoun. It just seems like the Pens' weaknesses are being greatly exaggerated while those of the other team's are ignored. The Pens' have too much top-end strength to be ranked 9th, way too much.


Yes, it was clear during last years playoffs that his analysis was way way off. The Dupuis/Tangradi/cooke/Kenney/Glass/Jeffrey/Sutter/Adams bottom 8 forwards clearly cuts above LA having a solid 2nd, 3rd and 4th line because we have Crosby and Malkin.

Its clearly all the Pens haters out there over stating their weakness and not pens fans with black and gold goggles having a hard time admitting we are top heavy to a fault. On offense and defense.

In all seriousness I just dont get the posts blasting the Flyers 2nd line, or Michalek, or somehow these comparisons to Staal vs. Suter as if there will not be a drop off in overall talent there on offense or defense. I could touch on a lot of what you said in the posts but not sure it will matter, they did not have much reasoning so I will leave you with this. If you want to argue depth give me the Flyers, Kings or St. Louis line up missing a top 1 or 2 center and a top 1 or 2 wing and Ill give you ours:

Kennedy Malkin Neal
Jeffrey Sutter Dupuis
Cooke Vitale Tangradi
Glass Adams Uh Oh


Vegas gold goggles seem to see the same thing: http://www.vegasinsider.com/nhl/odds/futures/


Correct, of course that worked out well for the 2011-12 playoffs as well.
BurghersAndDogsSports
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,043
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:42 am
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa

Re: Complete roster overview and ranking

Postby steelhammer on Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:08 pm

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
steelhammer wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
steelhammer wrote:I don't understand how you can say that the Kings have the best collection of forwards in the league, unless you were being sarcastic? They could barely score at all last season.

Meanwhile the Pens have the two best players in the game, where third place is a distant 3rd. The best right wing in Neal (according to the NHL voting), one of the best overall d-men in the league in Letang, and finally an elite goaltender in Vokoun. It just seems like the Pens' weaknesses are being greatly exaggerated while those of the other team's are ignored. The Pens' have too much top-end strength to be ranked 9th, way too much.


Yes, it was clear during last years playoffs that his analysis was way way off. The Dupuis/Tangradi/cooke/Kenney/Glass/Jeffrey/Sutter/Adams bottom 8 forwards clearly cuts above LA having a solid 2nd, 3rd and 4th line because we have Crosby and Malkin.

Its clearly all the Pens haters out there over stating their weakness and not pens fans with black and gold goggles having a hard time admitting we are top heavy to a fault. On offense and defense.

In all seriousness I just dont get the posts blasting the Flyers 2nd line, or Michalek, or somehow these comparisons to Staal vs. Suter as if there will not be a drop off in overall talent there on offense or defense. I could touch on a lot of what you said in the posts but not sure it will matter, they did not have much reasoning so I will leave you with this. If you want to argue depth give me the Flyers, Kings or St. Louis line up missing a top 1 or 2 center and a top 1 or 2 wing and Ill give you ours:

Kennedy Malkin Neal
Jeffrey Sutter Dupuis
Cooke Vitale Tangradi
Glass Adams Uh Oh


Vegas gold goggles seem to see the same thing: http://www.vegasinsider.com/nhl/odds/futures/


Correct, of course that worked out well for the 2011-12 playoffs as well.


The Pens and Blues should just forfeit next season. No hope whatsoever.
steelhammer
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,279
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:31 am
Location: Hold on, I have a stat for that.

Re: Complete roster overview and ranking

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:36 pm

steelhammer wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
steelhammer wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
steelhammer wrote:I don't understand how you can say that the Kings have the best collection of forwards in the league, unless you were being sarcastic? They could barely score at all last season.

Meanwhile the Pens have the two best players in the game, where third place is a distant 3rd. The best right wing in Neal (according to the NHL voting), one of the best overall d-men in the league in Letang, and finally an elite goaltender in Vokoun. It just seems like the Pens' weaknesses are being greatly exaggerated while those of the other team's are ignored. The Pens' have too much top-end strength to be ranked 9th, way too much.


Yes, it was clear during last years playoffs that his analysis was way way off. The Dupuis/Tangradi/cooke/Kenney/Glass/Jeffrey/Sutter/Adams bottom 8 forwards clearly cuts above LA having a solid 2nd, 3rd and 4th line because we have Crosby and Malkin.

Its clearly all the Pens haters out there over stating their weakness and not pens fans with black and gold goggles having a hard time admitting we are top heavy to a fault. On offense and defense.

In all seriousness I just dont get the posts blasting the Flyers 2nd line, or Michalek, or somehow these comparisons to Staal vs. Suter as if there will not be a drop off in overall talent there on offense or defense. I could touch on a lot of what you said in the posts but not sure it will matter, they did not have much reasoning so I will leave you with this. If you want to argue depth give me the Flyers, Kings or St. Louis line up missing a top 1 or 2 center and a top 1 or 2 wing and Ill give you ours:

Kennedy Malkin Neal
Jeffrey Sutter Dupuis
Cooke Vitale Tangradi
Glass Adams Uh Oh


Vegas gold goggles seem to see the same thing: http://www.vegasinsider.com/nhl/odds/futures/


Correct, of course that worked out well for the 2011-12 playoffs as well.


The Pens and Blues should just forfeit next season. No hope whatsoever.


Well, I guess the defensive mechanisms can make up for the flaws that have kept us from seriously competing for a championship recently but I digress.
BurghersAndDogsSports
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,043
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:42 am
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa

Re: Complete roster overview and ranking

Postby Penspal on Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:36 am

First off, thanks for sharing your analysis André. Tons of info in there. You would have had to make hundreds of judgement calls to get that listing.

I'm going to digest it through the day and see if anything interesting comes to mind.
Penspal
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,364
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:12 am
Location: dark recesses of Sid's brain

Re: Complete roster overview and ranking

Postby André on Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:43 am

mikey287 wrote:Points:

- Yeah, they still seem a little off to me. But it's immaterial really. Line combos don't matter, depth is what matters. The combos will figure themselves out. In my notes, I have Thornton centering Marleau (LW) and Pavelski (RW) towards the end of the year, for whatever it's worth.

- Limited number of unrestricted free agents, especially this year. Some remain unsigned, both UFAs and RFAs. Prospects with bonus-laden contracts also to be considered. Long-term deals more and more common, free agency less and less common. Exisiting salaries can't jump with the Upper Limit, only new ones. The expectation is that "new" contracts will be amplified by the rising Upper Limit. Which you can make a quality case for. First example off the top of my head is a RFA, Sam Gagner. After 2010 season (0.22 G/G, 0.38 A/G season) he got 2 years, $2.275M/yr. After 2012 season (0.24 G/G, 0.39 A/G season) he got 1 yr, $3.2M. A hearty raise, though the Oilers were under no obligation to give him a raise (eligible for 100% qualifying offer). Salary cap figures, both Upper and Lower Limits, have a direct effect on player salaries. Nature of the marketplace.

- Additionally, hometown discount or "lesser" contracts accepted by two major free agents or would-be free agents: Sidney Crosby and Zach Parise. Also influence your numbers. Those salaries may not be indicative of market value.


It's been the case for several seasons now. See Kovalchuck's deal for example. There was speculation of a 10 mil deal. And hometown discounts are still disscounts, and something that wasn't as common before the cap.

Then again the loophole contracts have helped I guess. Some salary averages for the years the player will actually play is alot higher than the cap hit. Still I stand by my point though, that salaries have not risen as much as the cap (39 to 70). No star's even close to a max deal.
André
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,286
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:51 am
Location: Gävle, Sweden

Re: Complete roster overview and ranking

Postby pugilist13 on Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:06 pm

brwi wrote:Those that think sutter is an improvement over Staal defensively(or anyway else) don't ever watch the Canes play. He's a good 3rd liner but he isn't Staal yet. I don't think Jordan is awesome and might even be overpaid a little, but he's better than Sutter in all areas right now. Sutter has room to grow and some upside, but so does Staal.

Good points. Sutter was the perfect guy to get back, a true 3rd line center. Staal is a 3rd liner for a handful of teams, the Pens being one of them. Sutter is better in the dot at this point, but thats about it. I still like the deal. Dumoulin may end up being the centerpiece from Pens end.
pugilist13
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,258
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:51 pm
Location: your back yard

Next

Return to NPR

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

e-mail