Lance Armstrong, Doper or Not?

[Gaucho]

Given how many cyclists have been caught doping...who cares?

A juiced Armstrong beat equally juiced competitors.

Pretty much.

[columbia]

Considering how slow my postal carrier is, I wish Lance had passed on some juice to those folks.

[KennyTheKangaroo]

I would be a lot more inclined to think this was a vendetta if this was a European or world anti-doping organization. But this is the USADA that is so doggedly pursuing this. I don't really think they have a vendetta against American athletes.

its a vendetta against michelob ultra

[CBear3]

I would be a lot more inclined to think this was a vendetta if this was a European or world anti-doping organization. But this is the USADA that is so doggedly pursuing this. I don't really think they have a vendetta against American athletes.

It's real easy. What's the best way to make a splash and make people pay attention to you? Take down the biggest fish in the ocean. And knowing that he's been picked at from every angle for a decade makes it easy to win.

[stopper40]

I would be a lot more inclined to think this was a vendetta if this was a European or world anti-doping organization. But this is the USADA that is so doggedly pursuing this. I don't really think they have a vendetta against American athletes.

its a vendetta against michelob ultra

Everyone should have a vendetta against michelob ultra

[shafnutz05]

I would be a lot more inclined to think this was a vendetta if this was a European or world anti-doping organization. But this is the USADA that is so doggedly pursuing this. I don't really think they have a vendetta against American athletes.

its a vendetta against michelob ultra

Everyone should have a vendetta against michelob ultra

Agreed. Budweiser Select 55 is so much better

[JS©]

While I'm sure Lance doped... I just think it's funny that the new TDF winners we have as a result of this are:

Zulle - admitted EPO user
Ulrich x 3 - suspended for doping
Basso - suspended for doping
Kloden - suspected and fined for doping
Beloki - suspected of doping, but acquitted.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.p ... stcount=56

a million views in this thread, and it seems like Lance doesn't have too many fans at Cycling News: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=18272

[steelhammer]

This is a good summary of doping in cycling. They have the top 10 finishers for every year since 1998 and what their doping history is. Might have to go outside of the top 10 for many of the races to determine a winner.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_at_the_Tour_de_France

[Gaucho]

I don't think there will be "new" winners. There'll simply be no winner at all.

It is really sad what has become of cycling.

[columbia]

Doping aside, I'm amazed that any human being could even finish the Tour de France.

[Gaucho]

Doping aside, I'm amazed that any human being could even finish the Tour de France.

This is something that often gets overlooked. These guys are still amazing athletes. And it sucks that they are being singled out and made scapegoats for a culture that is probably more or less prevalent in most all endurance and strength sports.

[steelhammer]

Doping aside, I'm amazed that any human being could even finish the Tour de France.

This is something that often gets overlooked. These guys are still amazing athletes. And it sucks that they are being singled out and made scapegoats for a culture that is probably more or less prevalent in most all endurance and strength sports.

The average speed of the race has increased 8% since 1989 which means the riders have to move 16% more air and thus do 16% more work. There is really only 1 way to keep up that kind of pace for 99.99999% of athletes. That might even be a low estimate. Given the physical demands and danger of the sport, the PEDs are one of the lesser risks they take.

[DudeMan2766]

I think there's some posters juicing their post counts.

[knives of ice]

no doubt Armstrong doped. there is no doubt in my mind that Bolt and the Jamaican track team dope as well, the testing is pretty much pathetic and simple to beat. Its an epidemic in all sports right now because they don't spend the money to do CIR tests and allow a 4/1 ratio. what armstrong did was completely different but its en epidemic in all sports its just a matter of if these sports want to spend the money to do the correct testing.

[Mr. Colby]

Why don't they just legalize blood doping in cycling then? Seems like cycling would be a good sport in which to allow the athletes to get more oxygen to their lungs

[Mr. Colby]

Negative effects are increased viscosity = more easily coagulated

[steelhammer]

Why don't they just legalize blood doping in cycling then? Seems like cycling would be a good sport in which to allow the athletes to get more oxygen to their lungs

There are some arguments for it: http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/2012/07/stop-persecuting-armstrong-time-for-a-doping-amnesty-in-cycling/#more-3905

[llipgh2]

a million views in this thread, and it seems like Lance doesn't have too many fans at Cycling News: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=18272

Pfft. Even if these people juiced to the max, they couldn't do what Armstrong did.

I agree with some other posters. Juiced or not, it is a big accomplishment. And it's not like he was the only one. And juiced or not, winning 7 times is rather remarkable.

[PghSkins]

a million views in this thread, and it seems like Lance doesn't have too many fans at Cycling News: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=18272

I like to ride but did not realize how superior I was supposed to feel. Fortunately all the posters in that thread have set me straight.

[Shyster]

The poll needs an option for “I don’t care.” Based on the fact that pretty much anyone and everyone who has ever won a bicycle race for the last 40 years seems to have been busted for doping at some point, even if Armstrong had been doped to the gills he still wouldn’t have had a competitive advantage because everyone else was doing it too. It’s like saying that Mark McGwire had an unfair advantage over Sammy Sosa when in fact they were both on so much juice it was practically squirting out of their pores.

[the wicked child]

WGAF? By the time they are done tearing down the dopers, there won't be anyone left. For a somewhat marginal sport, it's surprising that they seem to be on a never ending witch hunt.

[MRandall25]

Does it really taint his achievements that much if everyone is doping?

[tifosi77]

Lance Armstrong's physiology is simply different.

The Science of Lance Armstrong: Born, and Built, to Win

His heart is physically larger than an average human (by about 30%), his lung capacity is about 3x that of a normal man, his VO2/max - the amount of oxygen in his blood - is double that of a normal man, and high even for an endurance athlete. At the time of the writing of that NatGeo article (2005) he was the only human being ever documented to have improved his muscle efficiency. He has the lowest levels of lactic acid production many scientists have ever seen. All told, over his seven-year TdF win streak he was able to improve his pedaling rate from 85 strokes/min to 105 strokes/min.

While it's difficult to completely discount all the chatter, if it's true he still managed to beat seven fields full of cheaters.

[Gaucho]

Does it really taint his achievements that much if everyone is doping?

Nope. Him being a complete a***hole is what tainted his achievements.

[Tomas]

George Hincapie admits he doped (shortly after retirement):

http://www.georgehincapie.com/news/Stat ... -Hincapie/