Roenick on Sid's contract

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Re: Roenick on Sid's contract

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:28 pm

I have to disagree with a lot of people here. I'm not a fan of the dribble that Roenick can sometimes spout off, but I'm sorry, he's not wrong here. Let's clear up a few things here:

1) Crosby will be a Penguins for life if HE wants to be whether he has to sign a new contract every five years or not. There's no contract that makes a player for a specific team for life. Sid could sign a twenty year contract, but if at some point he wanted to leave he can request a trade.

2) This is a business. It doesn't matter if you're a loyal fan of a player or not, this is a business and the ability for your team to function is of paramount importance. If Sid were to sign somewhere else, I think it's safe to say 99% of every Penguin fan would remain a Penguin fan, watching their games, going to their games, buying their jersey and products.

I of course love Sid, would never want to see him go anywhere else. That being said, this contract is irresponsible. Sid will remain a concussion risk till the day he retires. This is not being insensitive, it's being realistic. Of course I want him to return to form and never suffer a concussion again, but to not get concussion insurance on this contract? If he ever gets a career-ending concussion, the Pens are EFFED. If he gets more concussions, can continue to play but becomes a player who misses lots of time over his career while not putting up the same points he used, the Pens are on the hook for a $8.7M cap hit till the end.

I'm glad Sid is here, but it's an irresponsible contract. Again, if Sid wants to be a Penguin for life, the contract length is irrelevant, he will continue to re-sign with the Pens.
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Re: Roenick on Sid's contract

Postby Kaizer on Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:21 pm

I thought it was established that he may have not even had a concussion from either of the steckel or hedman hits? that his neck was screwed up and is fine now. if he never had a concussion to begin with, he's no more at risk than anyone else.
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Re: Roenick on Sid's contract

Postby tfrizz on Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:09 am

Kaizer wrote:I thought it was established that he may have not even had a concussion from either of the steckel or hedman hits? that his neck was screwed up and is fine now. if he never had a concussion to begin with, he's no more at risk than anyone else.


It's a pretty safe bet that he did suffer a concussion, but it also seems that the neck problems may have played a larger role in the time he missed than the concussion did.
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Re: Roenick on Sid's contract

Postby Hawkeynut on Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:08 am

Roenick's a *****.
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Re: Roenick on Sid's contract

Postby raewhit on Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:38 am

but it's an irresponsible contract.


Unless you have seen his contract-how would you know?

I tend to believe that billionaire Ron Burkle and millionaire Mario Lemeiux know how to run a business- we aren't talking about Howard Baldwin.
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Re: Roenick on Sid's contract

Postby Lt. Dish on Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:56 pm

He thinks anything over 5 years is a mistake. OK, fine.

But I'm still waiting for him to regale us with his thoughts on the Bryzgalov, Simmonds and Hartnell deals.
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Re: Roenick on Sid's contract

Postby owtahear on Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:13 pm

I can't hear what Jeremy Roenick is saying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaiN8HjEy74
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Re: Roenick on Sid's contract

Postby Pitt87 on Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:38 pm

owtahear wrote:I can't hear what Jeremy Roenick is saying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaiN8HjEy74


His best games were played on Sega Genesis. That is all.
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Re: Roenick on Sid's contract

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:32 pm

raewhit wrote:
but it's an irresponsible contract.


Unless you have seen his contract-how would you know?

I tend to believe that billionaire Ron Burkle and millionaire Mario Lemeiux know how to run a business- we aren't talking about Howard Baldwin.


By that logic, how can you say it's a responsible contract? Did you read it?
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Re: Roenick on Sid's contract

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:32 pm

Hawkeynut wrote:Roenick's a *****.


He may be, but that doesn't make him wrong in this instance.
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Re: Roenick on Sid's contract

Postby raewhit on Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:35 pm

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:
raewhit wrote:
but it's an irresponsible contract.


Unless you have seen his contract-how would you know?

I tend to believe that billionaire Ron Burkle and millionaire Mario Lemeiux know how to run a business- we aren't talking about Howard Baldwin.


By that logic, how can you say it's a responsible contract? Did you read it?


I have no clue- but as I said before I tend to trust that Penguins management team-they seem to have a better handle on the team than anybody on LGP.
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Re: Roenick on Sid's contract

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:45 am

raewhit wrote:
Hugo Stiglitz wrote:
raewhit wrote:
but it's an irresponsible contract.


Unless you have seen his contract-how would you know?

I tend to believe that billionaire Ron Burkle and millionaire Mario Lemeiux know how to run a business- we aren't talking about Howard Baldwin.


By that logic, how can you say it's a responsible contract? Did you read it?


I have no clue- but as I said before I tend to trust that Penguins management team-they seem to have a better handle on the team than anybody on LGP.


That's fine, you can trust them, but I'm allowed to disagree with a team not taking out concussion insurance on ANY player that is a high concussion risk...especially one that's length is twelve years and a high cap hit. My knowledge of signing players and running a hockey may pale in comparison to any NHL hockey organization, but they're not doctors or psychics. Logic is logic and paying a player that takes up a large section of your cap space for a VERY long time without concussion insurance for a high risk player is simply irresponsible.

Just because they're high level management doesn't mean they're immune to making bad decisions.
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Re: Roenick on Sid's contract

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:47 am

I just want to clarify one more time for the other people on the board who will lash out at me, I'm a huge fan of Sid and want him to be a Penguin for life...there's just a more responsible way of doing.
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Re: Roenick on Sid's contract

Postby joopen on Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:10 am

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:I just want to clarify one more time for the other people on the board who will lash out at me, I'm a huge fan of Sid and want him to be a Penguin for life...there's just a more responsible way of doing.

It didn't matter how long of a contract he signed, there would be no insurance on the contract until he completes a season w/o head issues. How can you expect them to do something that was literally impossible to do? Do you exPect Sid to take a one year deal and see what happens? Come on.
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Re: Roenick on Sid's contract

Postby columbia on Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:01 am

To whatever extent there is risk involved with Crosby, it's the same as if he had signed a 3 year deal:

That is, he misses too many games and is not available (or properly conditioned) for the playoffs. If that happens a few more times, the dude will probably just retire....The length of the contract is irrelevant at that point.
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Re: Roenick on Sid's contract

Postby Zach6668 on Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:04 pm

columbia wrote:To whatever extent there is risk involved with Crosby, it's the same as if he had signed a 3 year deal:

That is, he misses too many games and is not available (or properly conditioned) for the playoffs. If that happens a few more times, the dude will probably just retire....The length of the contract is irrelevant at that point.


Would you retire with 50 million left on your deal? Or sit on IR and get paid...?
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Re: Roenick on Sid's contract

Postby columbia on Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:11 pm

I have no idea...then again, I've never made north of $40M and then signed a contract like he did.
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Re: Roenick on Sid's contract

Postby Troy Loney on Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:13 pm

Long term deals dont work! Look at Yashin and DiPietro!
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Re: Roenick on Sid's contract

Postby pugilist13 on Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:26 pm

Whether you agree with Sid's contract or not, one thing still remains, JR is a complete ***.
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Re: Roenick on Sid's contract

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:08 am

joopen wrote:
Hugo Stiglitz wrote:I just want to clarify one more time for the other people on the board who will lash out at me, I'm a huge fan of Sid and want him to be a Penguin for life...there's just a more responsible way of doing.

It didn't matter how long of a contract he signed, there would be no insurance on the contract until he completes a season w/o head issues. How can you expect them to do something that was literally impossible to do? Do you exPect Sid to take a one year deal and see what happens? Come on.


What do you mean? Maybe I'm unclear about a stipulation regarding putting insurance on the contract. You're saying the Penguins can't just add insurance to the contract based on the other concussions?
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Re: Roenick on Sid's contract

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:09 am

pugilist13 wrote:Whether you agree with Sid's contract or not, one thing still remains, JR is a complete ***.


Yes, he is. JR and Mike Milbury should get drunk together and do a podcast.
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Re: Roenick on Sid's contract

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:14 am

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:
joopen wrote:
Hugo Stiglitz wrote:I just want to clarify one more time for the other people on the board who will lash out at me, I'm a huge fan of Sid and want him to be a Penguin for life...there's just a more responsible way of doing.

It didn't matter how long of a contract he signed, there would be no insurance on the contract until he completes a season w/o head issues. How can you expect them to do something that was literally impossible to do? Do you exPect Sid to take a one year deal and see what happens? Come on.


What do you mean? Maybe I'm unclear about a stipulation regarding putting insurance on the contract. You're saying the Penguins can't just add insurance to the contract based on the other concussions?


I cant remember where and I dont feel like researching but there was some media reports that Sid has to play a year, 2 or 3 symptom free or whatever before he is able to be insured for head/neck related injuries. I assume they can still insure him for other injuries but in short the answer is no they can not insure him yet but if he stays healthy eventually they will be able to.
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Re: Roenick on Sid's contract

Postby penmyst on Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:01 am

Why does anybody care about insurance? That's the Pens ownership losing money if he goes out after a year or two. It doesn't matter.

The real issue is what is the cap hit over the term of that contract. Insurance won't help that one bit. His career ending (or being permanently in-out-in-out) after 1 or 2 years of a 10 year deal would be crippling.
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Re: Roenick on Sid's contract

Postby CERV96 on Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:22 am

penmyst wrote:Why does anybody care about insurance? That's the Pens ownership losing money if he goes out after a year or two. It doesn't matter.

The real issue is what is the cap hit over the term of that contract. Insurance won't help that one bit. His career ending (or being permanently in-out-in-out) after 1 or 2 years of a 10 year deal would be crippling.


IIRC in the current CBA(when contract was signed) that any player signing a deal under the age of 35 and that said player were to retire the Pens would be off the books on that cap amount(would still have to pay him though). It is if a player signs a deal above the age of 35 and that said player retires then the numbers are on the books for the remainder of the contract. This happened with Pronger and that is why he is still on the LTIR and not retired so the Flyers can use his cap space. If he were to retire then the Flyers are on the hook for his cap hit until the contract expires.
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Re: Roenick on Sid's contract

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:04 am

penmyst wrote:Why does anybody care about insurance? That's the Pens ownership losing money if he goes out after a year or two. It doesn't matter.

The real issue is what is the cap hit over the term of that contract. Insurance won't help that one bit. His career ending (or being permanently in-out-in-out) after 1 or 2 years of a 10 year deal would be crippling.


Because if they have to pay $8 million per year in cash that is money they can be spending on other players. The Penguins do not make $20 million per year in profit and Burkle has yet to show he is willing to just throw money in, lose $10 or $15 million per year for the sake of winning like so many think he would.

If it comes off the cap but the Penguins are on the hook still for the cash they probably wont be able to spend to the cap. If they get insurance that will help their bottom line. Add in the fact that his contract calls for higher payments than $8.7 the first half or so and Malkins probably will too there is no way they are filling in his roster spot with one or two players of the same value. It wont happen.
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