Tangradi

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Re: Tangradi

Postby JS© on Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:54 pm

columbia wrote:
Penspal wrote:I had to laugh when I read that Tangradi said "... in the best shape of my life...".


8-)

Maybe he's been hanging out with Mario.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby Malkamaniac on Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:40 pm

I still can't figure out how people think we could have signed Scuds for what he got.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby Nizzy on Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:41 pm

@Malka

At the time the cap was much tighter and Shero and Co still believed Scuderi was only a number 5 defenseman at best. Looking back at it now he's worth every penny of that 3.1. However a guy like that coming up through the system, performing like he did, just a great guy... should have been offered 2.8-3.0 for the same amount of years. I don't even think Shero tried to match at all. Possible reasons is because he isnt the PMD type and obviously the cap.

Just makes me sick, to think, we probably could have dropped Kennedy after that year for Letestu on the 3rd line at 1M-1.5M cheaper, and possibly kept Scuds on the team just barely under the cap...
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Re: Tangradi

Postby NeddieVedder on Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:04 pm

Nizzy wrote:At the time the cap was much tighter and Shero and Co still believed Scuderi was only a number 5 defenseman at best. Looking back at it now he's worth every penny of that 3.1. However a guy like that coming up through the system, performing like he did, just a great guy... should have been offered 2.8-3.0 for the same amount of years. I don't even think Shero tried to match at all. Possible reasons is because he isnt the PMD type and obviously the cap.


Shero said in an interview with Madden after free agency last year that Scuderi and Gill were the two players he most regretted not being able to keep. The Pens went into '09-10 with something like $800,000 of cap room.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby bh on Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:50 am

NeddieVedder wrote:
Nizzy wrote:At the time the cap was much tighter and Shero and Co still believed Scuderi was only a number 5 defenseman at best. Looking back at it now he's worth every penny of that 3.1. However a guy like that coming up through the system, performing like he did, just a great guy... should have been offered 2.8-3.0 for the same amount of years. I don't even think Shero tried to match at all. Possible reasons is because he isnt the PMD type and obviously the cap.


Shero said in an interview with Madden after free agency last year that Scuderi and Gill were the two players he most regretted not being able to keep. The Pens went into '09-10 with something like $800,000 of cap room.
I think after we won the cup most of us realized how much those two meant to that team. It just was what it was. No way to sign either one of them. That's ok. I'm kinda anxious to see how the young guys do as the year progresses, especially Despres.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby Nizzy on Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:59 am

Neddie/BH,

Thanks for the info...yeah its easy to look back and say what if. Would have been nice if Gonchar's contract came off the books that year. Would have been nice to keep Scuderi/Gill for what, the combined 5.5M they're making, over Gonchar's 5.

I'm saying this as someone who realized Gonchar was a true number 1 that cup run. All round defenseman, making hits like I never seen. He gets a pass from me for that last year and first year of that 5 year deal. He was so sick in 09.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby pcm on Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:26 pm

It's interesting comparing our 08-09 roster to 09-10. The loss of depth there is just incredible. Losing Scuderi was likely inevitable due to the cap. I don't really blame Shero, but it was still a mistake. An easy mistake to make, but a mistake nonetheless.

How could it have been avoided? If Shero had extended him before the playoffs, his salary would have been more in the low $2 million range. Signing him would have then meant that the team wouldn't have been able to re-sign Fedetenko or Guerin, or need to sign McKee, all of which would have been for the best.

Of course, then maybe Goligoski wouldn't have gotten the ice time to mature in time for Shero to swing the organization's best trade since 1991. And now, hopefully, it means that the Pen's young defensive cache will get plenty of ice time proving themselves as bonafide assets this year.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby MRandall25 on Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:31 pm

What if Scuderi didn't want to negotiate until the season was over?

Sometimes you just can't sign someone, no matter how hard you try.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby MRandall25 on Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:36 pm

And furthermore, there was absolutely NOTHING Scuderi had shown up until that point that was deserving of being extended early, anyway. He made his money in the playoffs. Simple as that.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby pcm on Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:49 pm

That's not true. Scuderi didn't suddenly up and change his game come playoff time. He played the same solid, defensive game he'd developed up to that point. The difference was that playoff hockey showed off the value of having that type of player in your lineup. When games are close, tight, and intense, you need to have a couple rocks on your blueline to battle round after round and come out on top. Scuderi and Gill became those rocks.

His worth elevated dramatically because people saw it. That Shero didn't see it (enough to extend him) counts as a mistake in my book. And as he's been quoted saying, he recognizes now that he made a mistake.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby shmenguin on Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:50 pm

MRandall25 wrote:And furthermore, there was absolutely NOTHING Scuderi had shown up until that point that was deserving of being extended early, anyway. He made his money in the playoffs. Simple as that.


there's no truth to the first statement there
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Re: Tangradi

Postby MRandall25 on Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:06 pm

shmenguin wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:And furthermore, there was absolutely NOTHING Scuderi had shown up until that point that was deserving of being extended early, anyway. He made his money in the playoffs. Simple as that.


there's no truth to the first statement there


And everything you guys bring up is 150% hindsight, so I don't give a **** if you think it's right or not.

Fact is, Scuds was nothing until the cup run. He made his bank. Move the **** on.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby shmenguin on Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:17 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:And furthermore, there was absolutely NOTHING Scuderi had shown up until that point that was deserving of being extended early, anyway. He made his money in the playoffs. Simple as that.


there's no truth to the first statement there


And everything you guys bring up is 150% hindsight, so I don't give a **** if you think it's right or not.

Fact is, Scuds was nothing until the cup run. He made his bank. Move the **** on.


Well you certainly seem like the reasonable one here
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Re: Tangradi

Postby MRandall25 on Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:24 pm

I'm just annoyed that we continuously have this discussion when it was clear

1) Shero would never have been able to sign him anyway

2) He didn't even earn the extension until the playoffs. 1 span of ~ 2 months and suddenly he goes from being affordable to not.

It's just a stupid argument. And it doesn't make a difference with the team as it's currently constructed and how it was constructed. The Pens were never able to sign him. I don't know why people keep trying to say it was possible.

I'm just annoyed that posters CONTINUALLY try to beat this already savagely beaten dead horse to even more death...
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Re: Tangradi

Postby shmenguin on Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:30 pm

Everyone was a fan of scuderi before the playoffs started. Sure, he increased his price tag in the finals and he may have been unwilling to sign anything before the offseason, which would make everything moot. But acting like he wasn't any good until the playoffs is either ignorant or just a defense mechanism.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby MRandall25 on Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:31 pm

shmenguin wrote:Everyone was a fan of scuderi before the playoffs started. Sure, he increased his price tag in the finals and he may have been unwilling to sign anything before the offseason, which would make everything moot. But acting like he wasn't any good until the playoffs is either ignorant or just a defense mechanism.


:face:

Image
Last edited by MRandall25 on Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby the wicked child on Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:31 pm

Scuderi's value skyrocketed during that run. He was a solid defender prior to that, but certainly not someone you break the bank to re-sign. It's easy to look back now and say "Shero should have tried to re-sign him prior to the playoffs", but that is pure hindsight, IMO. There are also no indications that it would have been possible or if either side was interested in such a deal. I would argue that there was no evidence that he would prove as critical to the run as he ultimately did... same with Gill.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby MRandall25 on Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:32 pm

the wicked child wrote:I would argue that there was no evidence that he would prove as critical to the run as he ultimately did... same with Gill.


THIS.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby shmenguin on Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:33 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
shmenguin wrote:Everyone was a fan of scuderi before the playoffs started. Sure, he increased his price tag in the finals and he may have been unwilling to sign anything before the offseason, which would make everything moot. But acting like he wasn't any good until the playoffs is either ignorant or just a defense mechanism.


:face:

Image


Lol, that doesn't make any sense. You need to figure out what you're even arguing.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby shmenguin on Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:42 pm

the wicked child wrote:Scuderi's value skyrocketed during that run. He was a solid defender prior to that, but certainly not someone you break the bank to re-sign. It's easy to look back now and say "Shero should have tried to re-sign him prior to the playoffs", but that is pure hindsight, IMO. There are also no indications that it would have been possible or if either side was interested in such a deal. I would argue that there was no evidence that he would prove as critical to the run as he ultimately did... same with Gill.


I think most people were interested in resigning him before the playoffs. Shero probably was too, but I doubt scuderi was into it. He was no spring chicken, and his value wasn't going to drop, so there was no other play besides waiting until July. So I don't blame shero or anyone else for how it played out. We were screwed no matter what.

Doesnt change that scuderi was very good for us the whole year. That is by no means a dead horse. It's just a fact that should be evident to anyone who isnt lost in their own maze of arguments.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby MRandall25 on Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:45 pm

shmenguin wrote:Everyone was a fan of scuderi before the playoffs started. Sure, he increased his price tag in the finals and he may have been unwilling to sign anything before the offseason, which would make everything moot. But acting like he wasn't any good until the playoffs is either ignorant or just a defense mechanism.


I never said he wasn't any good. I said he didn't earn the extension until the playoffs. There's a clear difference there.

I'm done. You just don't get it.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby columbia on Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:46 pm

Tangradi must be Itlaian for "let's discuss Penguins defensemen."
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Re: Tangradi

Postby shmenguin on Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:50 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
I never said he wasn't any good.

MRandall25 wrote:Fact is, Scuds was nothing until the cup run.


Just to have on the record.

Man...I'm not even in a bad mood today. This really brought te demon out of me.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby MRandall25 on Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:52 pm

shmenguin wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
I never said he wasn't any good.

MRandall25 wrote:Fact is, Scuds was nothing until the cup run.


Just to have on the record.

Man...I'm not even in a bad mood today. This really brought te demon out of me.


You interpreted it differently than what I meant it. Your fault, not mine.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby NeddieVedder on Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:56 pm

Are you going through caffeine withdrawal or something? It's cool bro
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