Where are my Gun Owners?

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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby mac5155 on Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:29 pm

What are everyone's thoughts on the KelTec PF-9? A buddy of mine bought one and he doesn't care for it so he was offering it to me for $295 (I want to say he paid $350ish for it out the door).
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby ffemtreed on Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:43 pm

price seems high for a used gun. I seen them brand new in the store for $290.

If it includes some extra's like mags, holster or ammo then its probably worth it.

What doesn't your friend like about it? Better yet, what do you like about it and do you like it?

PS -- a quick search online I found it at joebob's for 289 shipped. You will then have to pay a transfer fee of 20 or 30 bucks at your local FFL. I bet you can get that gun at a show for 275 brand new! Buds has it brand new shipped for $251
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby viva la ben on Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:46 pm

mac5155 wrote:What are everyone's thoughts on the KelTec PF-9? A buddy of mine bought one and he doesn't care for it so he was offering it to me for $295 (I want to say he paid $350ish for it out the door).

You could front pocket carry since yer a big dude.
Never had reliability issues with mine.
Some people have problems with mags dropping out, and it's a little painful to shoot due to the thin grip.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby mac5155 on Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:06 pm

He doesn't like the thin grip. I like the subcompact and also I have smaller fatter hands so the thin grip doesnt bother me as much. I think he has 2 mags and a holster. It's barely used, fired maybe 30 times.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Shyster on Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:06 pm

I have a Kel-Tec P32 that’s worked fine for me. I know a guy who has a P3AT that’s he’s had problems with. From what I understand, Kel-Tecs can be a little hit-and-miss in the reliability department. They do have good customer service from what I’ve heard, and they will work on guns with problems. It also doesn’t sound like you’re getting much off the price.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Shyster on Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:34 pm

Anyone here handload/reload? Ammunition of all sorts is getting to be stupid expensive, and I’m thinking of handloading to feed my guns (mostly my handguns). I’d probably start off with .38 Special and .357 Magnum for my revolvers (and Marlin 1894), and then move on to other cartridges once I get more familiar with the process.

Any comments on reloading equipment? I’m thinking of starting with the Lee Classic Cast Turret Press. Also, any comments on available cost savings? For example, I’ve heard some people say that 9mm can still be purchased cheap enough that it’s not really worth handloading it. Can anyone substantiate that? Thanks.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby viva la ben on Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:02 pm

9mm 100pk WWB at wallyworld is 23.97
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby mac5155 on Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:44 pm

why do you think ammunition is going to be crazy expensive? I can get .308 shells for my rifle for like 75 cents a piece or less.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby DelPen on Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:02 pm

When you crunch the numbers unless you are shooting thousands of rounds a month you don't really save much money after you factor in the investment of equipment. Loading your own ammo is good for rare cartridges or if you have say an M1 Garand that really shouldn't be using off the shelf .30-06. And in an ammo shortage it will be just as hard to find primers, bullets and brass as it would be to find factory loads. I seem to recall back in 2009 after Obama got elected not much was available.

But if you are going through a ton of .45 ACP or .308 every week then it might make sense. And even then I wouldn't trust once fired brass to be as accurate as factory loads.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Shyster on Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:13 am

mac5155 wrote:why do you think ammunition is going to be crazy expensive? I can get .308 shells for my rifle for like 75 cents a piece or less.

How far back does your ammo purchasing go? I mean, it's not that I think ammo is going to get expensive, it's that it has gotten really expensive already.

I've been using Quicken and similar programs for years, so I have financial records of all my gun-related purchases going back to the first gun I bought in July 1997. I have concrete evidence of how much ammo has gone up in cost. For an example, the current price for Speer Gold Dot 125 gr. .357 SIG rounds is around $22 for a box of 20. I have a old box of 50 in my ammo crate (which my records show I bought on 06/03/2000) that still bears its $14.99 price tag. At that price/round, a box of 20 would cost $6. It's more than tripled in price. On 05/27/1999 I bought three boxes of Winchester white box .357 SIG for $13.29 per box of 50. Today, a box of the same ammo is around $32. That's about 2.5x the price. On the same day I bought the Gold Dots, I also bought two 20-round boxes of Winchester Super-X .30-06 Power Points for $12.99 a box. The exact same ammo is around $19-20 a box today. Not as much of an increase as the other stuff, but still substantially more. Two 500-round bricks of Federal .22 ammo cost me $18.00 on 02/25/2000. Try to find 500 rounds of .22 for less than $10 today.

Of course, I lot of these increases are related to big increases in the prices of metals, and that would also raise the price of handloading components like brass and bullets. But if there are savings to be realized, I'm looking for them.

This post also makes me feel old.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby mac5155 on Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:54 am

Well, I surely dont keep track of it that thoroughly. I don't buy a ton of ammo either. But if you're pumping 100 rounds a week through a handgun then sure, it might be a fun hobby to start reloading ammo. I just don't see a savings in it because I value my time more than the few dollars a year i'd save by doing it.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby tifosi77 on Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:18 pm

How long would it take to handload, say, 100 rounds of pistol ammo?

Handloading has always seemed like something of a black art to me, so I hope this discussion goes into some more detail.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby mac5155 on Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:20 pm

My soon-to-be mother-in-law's boyfriend (that's a mouthful) reloads. Trouble is hes a nutjob a-hole so I don't like him and don't intend on being nice to him just because I want more info and want him to reload my ammo :lol:
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Shyster on Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:14 pm

tifosi77 wrote:How long would it take to handload, say, 100 rounds of pistol ammo?

Handloading has always seemed like something of a black art to me, so I hope this discussion goes into some more detail.

That would depend on a number of factors, like what type of press you’re using and what level of setup you need to do. There are three common types of presses: single-stage, turret, and progressive. Single-stage presses hold a single reloading die and cartridge at a time. You can only do one operation (like case resizing, bullet seating, or crimping) at a time on one cartridge. You’ll need to change dies for each operation. Turret presses hold a single cartridge at a time, but have multiple stations for loading dies. You can rotate stations manually, or some rotate automatically. The idea is that you can insert one empty case and then rotate the turret holding the dies so that by the time the case leaves the press, it has been through all of the stations. Progressive presses have multiple stations for dies like turret presses but also have multiple cartridge holders. They’re designed so that each pull of the handle will produce a loaded cartridge. Here’s a great video comparing the three types of presses



A single-stage can probably do maybe 50 rounds an hour if you’re speedy. A turret press can easily double that or more. Progressive presses can produce hundreds of rounds per hour. Of course, the cost and the setup complexity goes up substantially from single-stage to progressive. Good single-stage presses can be had for less than $100. A full progressive might start at $500 and hit $1,000 if you buy optional goodies like automatic case feeders.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby tifosi77 on Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:27 pm

50 rounds an hour? Geez, that doesn't sound like a lot at all. I guess that's one every minute or so, but I just never quantified it before.

It's almost as if the only reason for handloading would be the desire to control the load, or out of a hobby interest; economically, I'm not sure that would be worth my while.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Shyster on Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:11 pm

Well, a single-stage press is the slowest method, as you have to repeatedly switch dies. Other presses speed that up. For example, here's a video showing loading on the Lee Classic Cast Turret Press:



He’s doing about five rounds a minute, or around 300 an hour. Of course, it’s not possible to always maintain that rate as you’ll need to occasionally stop to refill the primer tray and add more powder to the measure. It’s also a good idea to weigh the powder charge about every 20–50 rounds or so to make sure the measure is still throwing the right amount. I could see maybe 200 rounds an hour, though. That’s not too bad a rate. That’s why I’m thinking of going with the Turret. Cabela’s offers the Lee Classic Cast Turret Press in a kit for $229 that includes pretty much all of the basic equipment except dies and components.

I found another video on Youtube where a guy does a cost breakdown of reloading using .45 ACP. Compared to buying Winchester white box at Wally World, he calculated that a handloaded cartridge using new brass saves about 18 cents per round. So the $229 price for the press kit above would be “paid for” in around 1,300 rounds. Add in the cost of dies and other accessories, and reloading could be saving money in, say, 2,000 rounds or so. And that calculation assumed brand-new brass each time. As brass can be loaded multiple times, the per-round cost actually drops each time you re-use the brass. I have a buddy who has loaded low-pressure revolver brass like .38 Special something like 10 times before he started to see cracks or splits.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Shyster on Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:30 pm

I have a product recommendation. Earlier this year, I became the owner of a vintage Smith & Wesson K-22 revolver (the gun that would later become the .22 Model 17). It came with the original skinny “service grips,” to which a Tyler T-Grip had been added. I decided that a nicer set of grips would be in order for this gun (grips that would also fill in the gap between the grips and the trigger guard), so I ordered a set of “Retro Combat Square Butt” grips from Ahrends Grips in oil-finished padauk wood. After about a four-month wait, they came in today. They are absolutely beautiful and fit nice and tight. At $80 plus shipping, I think they were quite reasonable in price for semi-custom grips, and they were well worth the wait. If you own a S&W revolver or a 1911-style semi-auto that could use a set of really nice grips, I fully recommend taking a look at Ahrends.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Shyster on Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:46 am

A flight attendant reporting for work at the Philly airport forgot that she had her Smith & Wesson J-frame .38 in her purse. Oopsie. She can likely kiss her concealed-carry permit goodbye, if not face other charges. But that isn’t the most important aspect of this story. The airport police officer that took the gun from her then negligently discharged it while attempting to unload it:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2 ... -security/

How the flying heck did that officer ND a revolver? You push the cylinder release with your thumb and swing out the cylinder. At no time do you need to come anywhere near the trigger. That cop should be fired for terminal stupidity.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Godric on Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:48 am

Shyster wrote:
How the flying heck did that officer ND a revolver? You push the cylinder release with your thumb and swing out the cylinder. At no time do you need to come anywhere near the trigger. That cop should be fired for terminal stupidity.


I don't believe this is the first time you made a post about a ND with a revolver... and I'll agree everytime
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Nuge on Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:56 am

Springfield XD or S&W M&P? I'm thinking of getting a 9mm for recreational shooting. From everything I've read, they seem pretty even, coming down to how each feels in the hand. Anyone have any opinions good or bad with either of these?
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Godric on Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:08 pm

Nuge wrote:Springfield XD or S&W M&P? I'm thinking of getting a 9mm for recreational shooting. From everything I've read, they seem pretty even, coming down to how each feels in the hand. Anyone have any opinions good or bad with either of these?


Godric wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:There's a guy I work with who has lost something like $600 in the past five or six months on a penny auction gun site. I kinda feel bad for him.

ffemtreed wrote:On personal level I hate glocks as well, the grip angle is really weird to me in my hands when I align the sites.

That's exactly my gripe. It feels awkward when presenting, almost like the pistol is on top of your hand.


Do you guys have little baby sized hands? Lol. Jk glocks aren't my flavor either.... As I posted before I have a Springfield Arms XD .40 and I love it. Got it on the cheap too



I really like my XD. Its one of my favorite handguns to bring to the range.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Shyster on Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:27 pm

Nuge wrote:Springfield XD or S&W M&P? I'm thinking of getting a 9mm for recreational shooting. From everything I've read, they seem pretty even, coming down to how each feels in the hand. Anyone have any opinions good or bad with either of these?

I’ve never shot either, but I have shootin’ buddies who own examples of both. From what they’ve said, they both really like their respective guns, and both of them have been completely reliable. I think you’re right about it coming down to how they feel in the hand. I don’t think you could go wrong with either of them.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Shyster on Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:35 pm

Godric wrote:I don't believe this is the first time you made a post about a ND with a revolver... and I'll agree everytime

Thanks for reminding me. I forgot about that earlier event and had to look it up. Not only was it someone NDing a revolver, that earlier event also happened at an airport with an airport security worker being the triggerman. It’s a sad commentary on the quality of our airport security workers that they apparently can’t figure out how to unload a gun that only has two controls, and one of them is obviously the trigger.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby mac5155 on Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:04 pm

The guy at cabelas said I could get a CCW permit for a crossbow. How in the flying **** am I going to conceal a crossbow
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby tifosi77 on Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:08 pm

I've shot an XD and loved it. Threw a wrench in the works as I decided to save up for a USP, but now I know that there's another pistol out there that feels super comfortable in my hand, and that I can shoot well(ish), and only costs half as much as the H&K.

mac5155 wrote:The guy at cabelas said I could get a CCW permit for a crossbow. How in the flying **** am I going to conceal a crossbow

Carefully. Very, very carefully.
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