Where are my Gun Owners?

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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Shyster on Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:59 pm

mac5155 wrote:The guy at cabelas said I could get a CCW permit for a crossbow. How in the flying **** am I going to conceal a crossbow

No, that is obviously wrong (at least in Pennsylvania). A concealed-carry permit in Pennsylvania applies to “firearms” as defined in 18 Pa.C.S. § 6102, which includes “Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches or any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches.” Considering that the latter two categories are, respectively, Short-Barreled Shotguns and Short-Barreled Rifles that are restricted under the federal National Firearms Act of 1934, it’s not too likely that someone would be regularly carrying either. So a Pennsylvania License to Carry Firearms pretty much applies only to handguns.

Were you told this in Wheeling? Maybe West Virginia law lets people carry crossbows, however improbable that might be in reality.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby ffemtreed on Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:18 am

Nuge wrote:Springfield XD or S&W M&P? I'm thinking of getting a 9mm for recreational shooting. From everything I've read, they seem pretty even, coming down to how each feels in the hand. Anyone have any opinions good or bad with either of these?



I have both and I favor the M&P.

the m&P is a bit slimmer and fits in my hand better. The only thing I don't like about my XD is the mag doesn't drop free, it tends to stick. I have tried everything to get it to go, I was ready to send it back to the factory but after playing with other XD's at the range they all had the similar problem so I don't think its a defect. SA told me they will break in and drop free over time. I have about 4000 rounds through it and while its a tad better it still sticks. Plus my XD is a subcompact .40s/w and I hate shooting that caliber but my wife loves it and its technically her gun, so it stays.

If your looking at the XD and m&P, don't rule out a glock right away, they are all very similar in design. You might be able to find a good deal on a used gen3 glock or even a new gen3 glock right now. I personally think the gen3 glocks are more reliable than the newer gen4's that are out.

Another gun to check out is the new Springfield XD .45 single stack, I personally have not shot it yet but I heard good things about it from people whom i trust. If your in the market at least give it a look.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby tifosi77 on Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:46 am

ffemtreed wrote:The only thing I don't like about my XD is the mag doesn't drop free, it tends to stick. I have tried everything to get it to go, I was ready to send it back to the factory but after playing with other XD's at the range they all had the similar problem so I don't think its a defect.

Okay, that's interesting. I had the same experience with the range rental I shot, thinking it might have just been a problem with a 'high miles' pistol. If that's endemic to the model, that makes the XD considerably less attractive. Have you heard similar complaints with the XDm's?
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby yubb on Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:46 am

I have an M&P 40 and really like it. Though I have little to compare it to. Clip certainly does drop out easily, though.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby FallenHero96 on Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:19 am

tifosi77 wrote:
ffemtreed wrote:The only thing I don't like about my XD is the mag doesn't drop free, it tends to stick. I have tried everything to get it to go, I was ready to send it back to the factory but after playing with other XD's at the range they all had the similar problem so I don't think its a defect.

Okay, that's interesting. I had the same experience with the range rental I shot, thinking it might have just been a problem with a 'high miles' pistol. If that's endemic to the model, that makes the XD considerably less attractive. Have you heard similar complaints with the XDm's?


I have a .40 XDM - it's a great gun. I only have about 350 rounds through it, but I have had zero problems so far. And the magazine drops right out easily. I have never shot the M&P, but I like the more aggressive look of the XDM.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby mac5155 on Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:34 am

Shyster wrote:
mac5155 wrote:The guy at cabelas said I could get a CCW permit for a crossbow. How in the flying **** am I going to conceal a crossbow

No, that is obviously wrong (at least in Pennsylvania). A concealed-carry permit in Pennsylvania applies to “firearms” as defined in 18 Pa.C.S. § 6102, which includes “Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches or any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches.” Considering that the latter two categories are, respectively, Short-Barreled Shotguns and Short-Barreled Rifles that are restricted under the federal National Firearms Act of 1934, it’s not too likely that someone would be regularly carrying either. So a Pennsylvania License to Carry Firearms pretty much applies only to handguns.

Were you told this in Wheeling? Maybe West Virginia law lets people carry crossbows, however improbable that might be in reality.


Yes, Wheeling. Although after spending 2 hours wandering around waiting for them to assemble my bow (2 people working the week archery season starts on a Saturday? grrrr) I was fed up, and he may have been joking.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby ffemtreed on Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:30 am

tifosi77 wrote:
ffemtreed wrote:The only thing I don't like about my XD is the mag doesn't drop free, it tends to stick. I have tried everything to get it to go, I was ready to send it back to the factory but after playing with other XD's at the range they all had the similar problem so I don't think its a defect.

Okay, that's interesting. I had the same experience with the range rental I shot, thinking it might have just been a problem with a 'high miles' pistol. If that's endemic to the model, that makes the XD considerably less attractive. Have you heard similar complaints with the XDm's?



I don't have any first hand knowledge of the XDm's. I heard they are better than the XD's though with the mag problem.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Godric on Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:44 am

The mag drops free from my XD

A lot of rounds have come out of it as well
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby ffemtreed on Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:38 pm

Godric wrote:The mag drops free from my XD

A lot of rounds have come out of it as well


Your post got me curious, so I pulled the XD out of the safe and toyed with it. I found with ammo in the mag it drops fairly clean out of the gun, but an empty mag tends to stick. I guess its getting better then when new since even full mags stuck then.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Shyster on Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:46 pm

Does anyone have any experience with either the Browning Buckmark or the Smith & Wesson 22A pistols? I have an itch for another .22 pistol (you can never own too many .22 target pistols, IMO), and I already own a Ruger Mark II 22/45 and a Beretta Neos (plus three S&W .22 revolvers). Neither one of those would break the bank.

Then again, the Ruger Single Ten also looks enticing…
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby mac5155 on Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:48 pm

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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Godric on Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:55 pm

Shyster wrote:
Then again, the Ruger Single Ten also looks enticing…


I shoot my brother's.... It's a lot of fun and really accurate

He has a scoped 44 that looks exactly the same but of course its bigger and its a 6
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby ffemtreed on Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:49 pm

Shyster wrote:Does anyone have any experience with either the Browning Buckmark or the Smith & Wesson 22A pistols? I have an itch for another .22 pistol (you can never own too many .22 target pistols, IMO), and I already own a Ruger Mark II 22/45 and a Beretta Neos (plus three S&W .22 revolvers). Neither one of those would break the bank.

Then again, the Ruger Single Ten also looks enticing…



Your not going to beat that ruger mark II unless you go custom. The buckmark is a good step ahead of the S/W 22A in my opinion for bullseye accuracy. If you get the buckmark get one of the high models that have a rail so you can put a red dot on it. Very fun!

Since you have the Mark II, why not get a more tactical .22 like the SR22, M&P22. I personally LOVE my SR22. Its my newest gun that I own and by far has the most rounds out of it than any other gun I own.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby ffemtreed on Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:05 pm



I don't like the laser on those pocket guns unless you use it for training purposes.

#1 those guns are really only good for point and shoot in very close situations. The sights are useless on the gun.
#2 The purpose of the gun is deep concealment, so the added bulk of the laser goes against the concept of the gun.
#3 In a quick draw combat situation where you will be using the gun you more than likely won't have time to turn on the laser and aim it.
#4 Kinda related to #1, the trigger on these guns will destroy any accuracy you can really get. Even with the laser its hard to hit a 25 YD target with the gun unless you really really really practice with the trigger pull and do a lot of dry firing. In a SHTF scenerio that refined trigger pull you learned will more than likely go out the window.
#5 Having said all that, the laser while nice for training, adds a lot of cost to the gun and doesn't provide much benefit.

Having said that, I carry the LCP almost everyday and trust my life with it. I really only invision using it when physically assaulted, like from behind at an ATM, or being jumped walking down the street. 5 to 10 yards is my max distance I would consider myself effective with the gun. I think that 0 to 7 yards will take care of 95% of the encounters I might come upon that I would be forced to use my firearm. When my clothing allows I carry an M&P9 which I feel comfortable hitting center mass out to 50 yards if need be if you want to compare my skills between the LCP and a full size.

If you go to some gun shows you can find the LCP for 259 without a laser. You can commonly get them on sale for 279 at Gander without a laser.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby yubb on Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:27 pm

You can hit your target from 50 yards with a pistol consistently?
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby mac5155 on Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:17 pm

Ok, so an LCP with no laser.

I also like the Smith and Wesson bodyguard series. I think my next purchase is going to be a very small carry pistol. These little things pack plenty of punch, and I don't mind the long trigger pull-I only want it to fire when I pull the trigger.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby ffemtreed on Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:47 pm

yubb wrote:You can hit your target from 50 yards with a pistol consistently?


absolutely. Center mass which is a pretty big target. 9 out of 10 on paper. Its all about trigger control and sight alignment. Not saying I could do that under a great amount of stress, but taking my time its pretty easy. Most people who shoot a pistol a lot can do it, most just don't realize it because they never try.

There are people at my range who consistently pick off soda cans at 100 yards with a pistol. i am not that good yet.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby ffemtreed on Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:51 pm

mac5155 wrote:Ok, so an LCP with no laser.

I also like the Smith and Wesson bodyguard series. I think my next purchase is going to be a very small carry pistol. These little things pack plenty of punch, and I don't mind the long trigger pull-I only want it to fire when I pull the trigger.


My wife carries the bodygaurd380. I really like the gun except for the laser and the thumb safety. The thumb safe is why i choose to not carry the gun. Its just one extra thing to fumble with when you need it. The bodyguard is made much better than the LCP and the sights are a million times better. The triggers are about the same. Its really a personal choice.

The laser control on the 380 is very very quirky. The button is very mushy and doesn't always work. I HATE it. there are mods on the net to improve the laser button, so if you go with that gun you might want to look at the mods if your button is mushy.


Just make sure whichever one you get that you use a good pocket holster with it (desantis) and never re-holster the gun with the holster still in the pocket, always take the holster out of the pocket and put the gun in the holster than put the whole package into your pocket. Also try to not have anything else other than the gun in that pocket.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby yubb on Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:50 am

Wow. Yeah, I guess I never tried to shoot much farther than 10 to 15 yards away.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby mac5155 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:39 am

ffemtreed wrote:
mac5155 wrote:Ok, so an LCP with no laser.

I also like the Smith and Wesson bodyguard series. I think my next purchase is going to be a very small carry pistol. These little things pack plenty of punch, and I don't mind the long trigger pull-I only want it to fire when I pull the trigger.


My wife carries the bodygaurd380. I really like the gun except for the laser and the thumb safety. The thumb safe is why i choose to not carry the gun. Its just one extra thing to fumble with when you need it. The bodyguard is made much better than the LCP and the sights are a million times better. The triggers are about the same. Its really a personal choice.

The laser control on the 380 is very very quirky. The button is very mushy and doesn't always work. I HATE it. there are mods on the net to improve the laser button, so if you go with that gun you might want to look at the mods if your button is mushy.


Just make sure whichever one you get that you use a good pocket holster with it (desantis) and never re-holster the gun with the holster still in the pocket, always take the holster out of the pocket and put the gun in the holster than put the whole package into your pocket. Also try to not have anything else other than the gun in that pocket.


I'm not a fan of anything in my pockets. A cell phone and keys drive me nuts. I think the only time I'd ever get a pocket holster would be when wearing shorts, and all my casual shorts (not gym shorts) are cargo pockets. If I was wearing long pants, I'd probably go with an ankle holster.

Are there huge size/weight differences between those two guns? The laser on the Bodyguard looks a lot more streamlined, like it belongs on the gun, whereas on the LCP it is just there, big, and bulky.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Shyster on Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:10 pm

ffemtreed wrote:Since you have the Mark II, why not get a more tactical .22 like the SR22, M&P22. I personally LOVE my SR22. Its my newest gun that I own and by far has the most rounds out of it than any other gun I own.

My understanding of the SR22 is that it is traditional SA/DA in operation, which is something I no longer use for my carry guns (I used to carry a SIG P225). If it were closer in operation to my other guns, then I’d be more interested. For example, I have a S&W Model 317 .22 J-Frame to pair with my 642 for practice.

On that note, I really applaud S&W for making the M&P22. Personally, I think every manufacturer of tactical guns should either make a specific .22 version or offer a .22 conversion kit. For example, I firmly believe that if Glock were to make a .22 pistol that mimicked the size, shape, sights, and trigger action of its centerfire pistols, they would sell a ton of them. It baffles me that they don’t make one. Sure, you can get 9mm ammo pretty cheap to shoot in your 17/19/26/34, but 9mm is still many times over more expensive than .22 LR.

I personally would pay quite a bit of money if Kahr were to make a .22 that I could use to practice. I even badgered the Kahr representatives about that the last time the NRA Annual Meetings were in town. So far, nothing.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby mac5155 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:15 pm

Shyster wrote:
ffemtreed wrote:Since you have the Mark II, why not get a more tactical .22 like the SR22, M&P22. I personally LOVE my SR22. Its my newest gun that I own and by far has the most rounds out of it than any other gun I own.

My understanding of the SR22 is that it is traditional SA/DA in operation, which is something I no longer use for my carry guns (I used to carry a SIG P225). If it were closer in operation to my other guns, then I’d be more interested. For example, I have a S&W Model 317 .22 J-Frame to pair with my 642 for practice.

On that note, I really applaud S&W for making the M&P22. Personally, I think every manufacturer of tactical guns should either make a specific .22 version or offer a .22 conversion kit. For example, I firmly believe that if Glock were to make a .22 pistol that mimicked the size, shape, sights, and trigger action of its centerfire pistols, they would sell a ton of them. It baffles me that they don’t make one. Sure, you can get 9mm ammo pretty cheap to shoot in your 17/19/26/34, but 9mm is still many times over more expensive than .22 LR.

I personally would pay quite a bit of money if Kahr were to make a .22 that I could use to practice. I even badgered the Kahr representatives about that the last time the NRA Annual Meetings were in town. So far, nothing.


Do you carry while you're at work? I am just wondering in light of the hostage situation that occurred at your building.

My building has a no-firearms policy. I believe it pertains to CCW also, but don't really feel the need to test it out.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Shyster on Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:52 pm

mac5155 wrote:Do you carry while you're at work? I am just wondering in light of the hostage situation that occurred at your building.

My building has a no-firearms policy. I believe it pertains to CCW also, but don't really feel the need to test it out.

I do not. I’m not sure whether the building has such a policy, or whether the building’s management could actually prohibit that to its tenants. My company is silent on the question, and I’ve been hesitant to ask about it. My guess would be that our management would say no.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby ffemtreed on Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:14 pm

I do not carry at work since I worked in public schools and starting next week at a medical care facility that has a strong no firearms/weapons policy.

For those who asked about the SR22, yes its a DA/SA action, however the MP22 is more like their big brothers. I chose not to get the MP22 because it has a thumb safe on it, where as my m&p carry gun that I did most of my training with doesn't. I don't want to screw with any muscle memory issues with having two guns so similar.

Oh yeah I almost forgot to mention the M&P shield to check out for anyone who wants a smaller frame gun. They are very hard to get and i haven't laid hands on one yet, but from the sounds of it they are very good.
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Re: Where are my Gun Owners? (CCW related)

Postby Shyster on Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:25 pm

Also on the top of smaller guns, I must say I love my Kahr PM9. It’s not quite as small as the .380s on the market, but it offers 6+1 rounds of 9mm (7+1 with the extended mag) in a gun that’s similar in length and height to a J-frame S&W (and substantially thinner). I’ve found it’s not bad at all to shoot and is quite “combat” accurate. Kahr also does now offer a smaller .380 too. And speaking of J-frames, they have long been considered pocket guns. Just about all of my shooting buddies own either a S&W 442 or 642 Centennial for occasional pocket carry.
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