Dominik Hasek announced retirement today

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Dominik Hasek announced retirement today

Postby Tomas on Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:49 pm

In the "exclusive interview" for iSport.cz

In order to make the NHL again, he apparently offered to even go to the AHL. There were no takers. "I don't see any possibility to change this [outcome.] I wanted to do everything possible to return back to the NHL, but the other side did not feel the same. At the end, I decided it's no longer worth it." In the interview, he also claimed he lacks motivation to go back to the Czech Extraleague.

http://isport.blesk.cz/clanek/hokej-nhl ... risla.html
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Re: Dominik Hasek announced retirement today

Postby mikey287 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:30 am

Best of all time quite possibly. Turned pro over 30 years ago! Think about that for a second, over 30 years ago!
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Re: Dominik Hasek announced retirement today

Postby Pitt87 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:50 am

mikey287 wrote:Best of all time quite possibly. Turned pro over 30 years ago! Think about that for a second, over 30 years ago!


I'm 30. That is shocking.

Not much question that he was the best of his era. There might not be another like him for quite a while.
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Re: Dominik Hasek announced retirement today

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:53 am

There already has been. Tim Thomas.
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Re: Dominik Hasek announced retirement today

Postby tfrizz on Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:44 am

Pitt87 wrote:
mikey287 wrote:Best of all time quite possibly. Turned pro over 30 years ago! Think about that for a second, over 30 years ago!


I'm 30. That is shocking.

Not much question that he was the best of his era. There might not be another like him for quite a while.


I'll dispute that by saying Patrick Roy was the best of the era. Hasek is a clear #2 though. Brodeur can <if I type what I want to I'll make the mods and/or Admin mad>.
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Re: Dominik Hasek announced retirement today

Postby mikey287 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:02 am

Idoit40fans wrote:There already has been. Tim Thomas.


I lol'd. Not even close...by merit or by style.
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Re: Dominik Hasek announced retirement today

Postby mikey287 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:04 am

tfrizz wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:
mikey287 wrote:Best of all time quite possibly. Turned pro over 30 years ago! Think about that for a second, over 30 years ago!


I'm 30. That is shocking.

Not much question that he was the best of his era. There might not be another like him for quite a while.


I'll dispute that by saying Patrick Roy was the best of the era. Hasek is a clear #2 though. Brodeur can <if I type what I want to I'll make the mods and/or Admin mad>.


I'm ready to defend Hasek whenever called upon. :lol:

My top 5 (as of this moment): Hasek, Roy, Hall, Pllante, Brodeur. Lots of movement can be made, but I'm pretty confident in one and two and their order. 3-100, well, that's another story...
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Re: Dominik Hasek announced retirement today

Postby JS© on Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:38 am

out of curiosity, why Hasek over Roy?
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Re: Dominik Hasek announced retirement today

Postby Pitt87 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:53 pm

JS© wrote:out of curiosity, why Hasek over Roy?


Defense. Hasek won despite his defense, where you could argue that Roy and Brodeur played for teams known for not allowing many goals regardless of who was between the pipes.

That said, its a matter of perspective.
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Re: Dominik Hasek announced retirement today

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:39 pm

Pitt87 wrote:
JS© wrote:out of curiosity, why Hasek over Roy?


Defense. Hasek won despite his defense, where you could argue that Roy and Brodeur played for teams known for not allowing many goals regardless of who was between the pipes.

That said, its a matter of perspective.


I don't know about Roy, but the Devils went from being in the bottom half of the league in goals against for the several years preceding Brodeur to near the top of the league starting his first full season. Say what you want about the defense limiting shots, Brodeur was and is a huge part of the Devils maintaining possession of the puck and preventing opponents possession in his zone. If you choose to ignore that and just looking at shots, there aren't a lot of goalies that can stay in a game when that aren't involved.
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Re: Dominik Hasek announced retirement today

Postby MRandall25 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:55 pm

Roy had Chelios in Montreal and Foote and Blake pretty much the entire time in Colorado
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Re: Dominik Hasek announced retirement today

Postby mikey287 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:08 pm

JS© wrote:out of curiosity, why Hasek over Roy?


I mean, just the macro stuff should go a long way to clinching this for Hasek...if I need to go into detail later, I will...

He played, what, 12 or 13 seasons in the NHL, right? He didn't even become a starter until he was 28 (came over just a few years before that)

- 6 Vezinas (other notable finishes: 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 8th), so he wins the best goalie award for half of his career roughly and was top-8 for virtually his whole NHL career...that's really a lot of notoriety and to not really have a down year in all that time and on different teams, is really remarkable.

- All-Star Voting (6-time First-Team All-Star): 1st, 1st*, 1st, 1st*, 1st, 1st, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 7th - and then four more in the top-7

- Hart trophy record: 1st, 1st* 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 8th - Look at this Hart trophy record! 5x he was top-3 for it! That's not a goalie award...at all. And he was deemed so valuable that he won it twice, once almost unaminously (and the other time wasn't far off either).

* = near-unaminous decision

Background on the Hart: It's been around since 1923-24. Here's all the times it's been given to a goalie: 1929 Roy Worters (made a bad Pittsburgh team look really good, won it head-to-head against Hainsworth's 22 SO in 44 games season), 1950 Chuck Rayner, 1954 Al Rollins (on a last place Chicago team), 1962 Jacques Plante (first year without Doug Harvey, proved himself), 2002 Jose Theodore (tied with Iginla for the award).

So, there we go, it's going on 100 years now and we have 5 goalies that ever won it (and one was a tie)...and then Hasek, who won it twice back to back and was a strong, strong consideration for it another three times on top of that. Sickening.

Just for the record, because this is very one-sided, here's Patrick Roy's Hart trophy record: 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th. Stellar, really stellar. That's why he's the second best goalie of all-time. Damn near all goalies don't get that far. Roy had a few more years to get those, but that's not really the point. It's a terrific Hart record, but it pales in comparison to Hasek.

They all do:

Finishing Top-3 for Hart (Goaltenders):
Hasek: 5
Brodeur: 3 (all thirds)
Worters: 2
Rollins: 2
Roy: 2
Esposito: 2
Brimsek: 2
Durnan: 2
Vachon: 2
Liut: 2
Roach: 2

I don't even want to break it down statistically, but his dominance over his peers in save pct. when adjusting for era is just silly. So far ahead of the pack...

Led the NHL in save pct. 6 straight seasons (5 other top-10 finishes to go along with it). Led the NHL in shutouts 4 times (6 more times he was top-6).

Officially, he's the all-time leader in save pct. Of course, that's not necessarily true as it's only been officially kept since 1983. But let's go with that...he's the save pct. leader for goalies since 1983...save pct. has been going nowhere but up since he retired. So, what does that mean? Out of all the other top-12, they're all active! In fact, Hasek is one of just two not active in the top-18 (the other is Cristobal Huet). Among the top-30, only Huet (14th), Fernandez (19th), Legace (20th), Roy (24th), Hebert (27th) and Dunham (30th) are not active in the NHL! A list that includes Marc-Andre Fleury! (fittingly, 29th)

To further show the effects of era on save percentage, here's a list of the goalies from 50th-100th on the same list that are currently active:
Boucher (55th), Raycroft (57th)...and I'm done. That's why when I say "asterisk this Tim Thomas and Brian Elliott nonsense", it's not for fervent hatred, it's because it's a different time...that's another story, this is about Hasek...

Lost in all this talk is that we're only talking about the NHL. Hasek was a pro for nearly 10 years before coming over (I think he was the youngest pro in history when he turned professional in 1981 in the Czechoslovakian league - likely the 3rd best league in the world at the time [NHL, RSL, Czech] - and conventional wisdom suggests goalies take longer to develop, pfft!).

- U18 WJC Best Goaltender award
- U20 WJC Best Goaltender award
- Represented Czechoslovakia (again, the 3rd best hockey power in the world) at the World Championships at age 18! And won a silver!
- Czech League best goalie of the year award (x5 - 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990)
- Czech League Player of the Year (x3 - 1987, 1989, 1990)
- Czech League Champion (x2 - 1987, 1989)
- World Championships Best Goaltender Award (x2 - 1987, 1989)
- Czech League Playoff MVP (1989)
- Olympics Best Goalie (1998), Gold Medal winner

I mean, look, they had an award just for him "Best Goaltender" in the Czech League and still felt the need to give him the "Player of the Year" award as well because he was so overwhelmingly good. Weird how that carried over into the NHL even, as illustrated above. As for the prestige of that "Player of the Year" award (called the Izvestia Golden Stick, if memory serves (Tomas?), it has a strong correlation to greatness: Jan Suchy, Frantisek Posposil, Vladimir Martinec, Milan Novy, Peter Stastny pretty much owned the award...for those familiar with international hockey in the 1970's and 80's, you know those names and they mean a lot to you.

Roy's only international experience came in 1998 - the first best-on-best Olympics, where Roy lead Canada to, what, a 5th place finish was it? Losing head-to-head against Hasek.
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Re: Dominik Hasek announced retirement today

Postby Tomas on Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:37 pm

mikey287 wrote:[ As for the prestige of that "Player of the Year" award (called the Izvestia Golden Stick, if memory serves (Tomas?), it has a strong correlation to greatness: Jan Suchy, Frantisek Posposil, Vladimir Martinec, Milan Novy, Peter Stastny pretty much owned the award...for those familiar with international hockey in the 1970's and 80's, you know those names and they mean a lot to you.


Just "Golden Stick." 'Izvestia' was some Soviet newspaper that gave name to this tournament: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_On ... _hockey%29

Golden Stick is really a big deal, and Hasek won it 5 times (second all time to JJ's 10 wins): http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zlat%C3%A1_hokejka
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Re: Dominik Hasek announced retirement today

Postby mikey287 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:51 pm

Thank you, as always, Tomas.

I believe there is a Golden Stick award for top Czech player and an Izvestia Golden Stick for best player in all of Europe. I've seen the voting results for the Czech one (I think I'm looking at it here, am I not: http://www.zlatahokejka2009.cz/historie?rubrid=57 )

I don't think I've seen the voting results for the Izvestia Golden Stick award...probably lodged deep in the annals of some communist newspaper (I guess, the Izvestia) needing to be dusted off and decoded...maybe one day...
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Re: Dominik Hasek announced retirement today

Postby Pitt87 on Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:11 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:
JS© wrote:out of curiosity, why Hasek over Roy?


Defense. Hasek won despite his defense, where you could argue that Roy and Brodeur played for teams known for not allowing many goals regardless of who was between the pipes.

That said, its a matter of perspective.


I don't know about Roy, but the Devils went from being in the bottom half of the league in goals against for the several years preceding Brodeur to near the top of the league starting his first full season. Say what you want about the defense limiting shots, Brodeur was and is a huge part of the Devils maintaining possession of the puck and preventing opponents possession in his zone. If you choose to ignore that and just looking at shots, there aren't a lot of goalies that can stay in a game when that aren't involved.


I don't think its possible to dispute any of this, but if you look at the names of the guys that played in front of Hasek when he won the Hart in 97 & 98, Alexei Zhitnik and Richard Smehlik are the outstanding names. Some others include Jay McKee and Jason Wooley. When Marty won the Vezina in 2003 & 2004, the names in front of his were Neidermayer, Stevens, Daneyko & Rafalski.
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Re: Dominik Hasek announced retirement today

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:50 am

That really has nothing to do with it. The point is, they weren't a team that shut other teams down until he got there. It was like night and day.
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Re: Dominik Hasek announced retirement today

Postby pensfan1989 on Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:29 am

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Re: Dominik Hasek announced retirement today

Postby Rylan on Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:06 pm

3 Goals I distinctly remember being scored on Hasek are:

The Kasper goal, The Brett Hull goal, and a goal scored by Eddie Olczky from the red line as a Penguin.
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Re: Dominik Hasek announced retirement today

Postby mikey287 on Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:14 pm

I'm not sure what we're discussing really...the Devils were a defensive team that limited chances higher up in the offensive zone or, often, the neutral zone (thus, neutral zone trap)...shots are down, save pct. can be negatively effected unless 1 goal or less is allowed. 16 out of 18 is only .889. Devils notoriously stingy with home shot counts...as Doc always alluded to. Negatively affected Marty's save pct., positively reflected on defense.

Hasek's Sabres, different type of defensive structure. Ruff offers a lot of variation. Sometimes puck side attack, sometimes a positional, almost man defense that involves a lot of skating for the forwards. The use of Michael Peca against other teams top units was noteworthy in the timeframe alluded to...also, Ruff's habitual issue of finding the right wingers to fit his system as it required somewhat of an uncharacteristic defensive commitment from both wings I believe...tried to insert many natural centers into the lineup because they would best understand the defensive responsibilites of the forward. System allowed plenty of shots (I'd almost think by Hasek's request...as he seemed better facing a lot of shots early...took warm-ups very methodically and seriously), but did it's best to limit second-chance opportunities. Limited talent was boosted by good coaching and elite level goaltending.
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Re: Dominik Hasek announced retirement today

Postby Lesky on Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:55 am

mikey287 wrote:Thank you, as always, Tomas.

I believe there is a Golden Stick award for top Czech player and an Izvestia Golden Stick for best player in all of Europe. I've seen the voting results for the Czech one (I think I'm looking at it here, am I not: http://www.zlatahokejka2009.cz/historie?rubrid=57 )

I don't think I've seen the voting results for the Izvestia Golden Stick award...probably lodged deep in the annals of some communist newspaper (I guess, the Izvestia) needing to be dusted off and decoded...maybe one day...


How could Jiri Dopita win 2001 when Jagr had Art Ross Trophy with the Pens?
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Re: Dominik Hasek announced retirement today

Postby mikey287 on Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:58 pm

Lesky wrote:
mikey287 wrote:Thank you, as always, Tomas.

I believe there is a Golden Stick award for top Czech player and an Izvestia Golden Stick for best player in all of Europe. I've seen the voting results for the Czech one (I think I'm looking at it here, am I not: http://www.zlatahokejka2009.cz/historie?rubrid=57 )

I don't think I've seen the voting results for the Izvestia Golden Stick award...probably lodged deep in the annals of some communist newspaper (I guess, the Izvestia) needing to be dusted off and decoded...maybe one day...


How could Jiri Dopita win 2001 when Jagr had Art Ross Trophy with the Pens?


First thought that came to mind was "voter fatigue"...Jagr always wins, so you look for a reason to not give it to him because you basically know, that's your guy...like Michael Jordan not winning the MVP every single season he was in the league...just too obvious. In the case of Dopita, who had numerous top-5 finishes for a number of years leading up to that, he had probably one of the finest domestic seasons in Czech Republic history I have to believe in 2001...he was quite dominant from start to finish that year (winning the playoff MVP and a championship, then followed it up with a Gold Medal at the WCs)...I remember at the time Dopita was hailed as the "best player outside of the NHL", in large part because of that season. Such a good season that despite being twice drafted before that (1992 with Boston, 1998 with the Islanders) it finally forced the hand of an NHL team to give him money to come over (Philadelphia ponied up the dough)...

So while Jagr did have the better season really (dominating the world's best league vs. dominating the world's, hmm, 5th or 6th best league at the time?), it's just a case of showing appreciation for a star that stayed home in exchange for a star that got plenty of attention already...
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