The Men Who Built America

[mac5155]

Has anyone been watching this miniseries? I was bored today and remembered I DVR'd it, so started watching. The first 3 episodes were great. Talked about Cornelius Vanderbilt (who the town of Vanderbilt was named for, only 3-4 miles from my home), John D. Rockefeller, then moved into Andrew Carnegie and Henry Frick (who was born in my hometown). Its really interesting stuff and a nice change from the pawn crap that History has been known for lately.

[npv708]

Yeah, I've been tuning in. Reminds me of the History channel when I watched it daily for hours. The Vanderbilt episode was really good and we have the rest of them DVR'd. I can't wait to watch the Carnegie/Frick episode. Between Pawn Stars, IRT, Ax Men, Ancient Aliens and the other reality tv shows, History has gotten as far away from its roots as TLC has. I can't believe the lack of programming on the History channel for the Presidential election. They have days worth of documentaries and such, but nothing doing. Its embarrassing.

[mac5155]

I didnt realize they were sequential and watched the carnegie/frick one first.

For anyone that is interested, there's a new distillery museum in West Overton village in Scottdale which is where I'm from, and where Frick was born. The chair he was sitting in when he was shot is there. Cool stuff

[JS©]

yeah I caught them out of sequence too. I caught the one with Frick being shot by the anarchist first and then saw the one with the Johnstown Flood (the previous episode) the following week. Last week they were running a marathon but I only caught the flood and the frick shooting episodes.

[mac5155]

I had no idea Frick and Carnegie were blamed for the Johnstown flood

[meow]

I had no idea Frick and Carnegie were blamed for the Johnstown flood

I used to work at the Johnsyown Flood Museum and probably 90% of guests would say that.

[bh]

The book by David McCullough on the flood was awesome. I'd recommend it to anyone.

[mac5155]

I had no idea Frick and Carnegie were blamed for the Johnstown flood

I used to work at the Johnsyown Flood Museum and probably 90% of guests would say that.

What is the whole story? By them building their hunting club up there it weakened the dam?

[KennyTheKangaroo]

I had no idea Frick and Carnegie were blamed for the Johnstown flood

I used to work at the Johnsyown Flood Museum and probably 90% of guests would say that.

What is the whole story? By them building their hunting club up there it weakened the dam?

the club didnt build the dam. the dam was originally built by the state to help with the canal system that ran through jtown.

however, when the club bought the dam, the dam was in pretty bad shape. instead of spending the $$$ to fix it, they kind of made the repairs on the cheap and did not have reasonable systems to help with the flooding.

"the men who built america" could easily be renamed "if you think the guys on wall street are jagoffs for making money during the recession, consider the antics of these jagoffs"

[JS©]

I had no idea Frick and Carnegie were blamed for the Johnstown flood

I used to work at the Johnsyown Flood Museum and probably 90% of guests would say that.

there's probably a lot of blame to go around on that one.

Poor dam conditions, Frick and Carnegie not relaying the message until it was almost too late are two big reasons, but the biggest one or at least the one I took from this series was that Jtown Telegraph Company decided the message wasn't important (being that they've seen it dozens of times before) and didn't relay the message to the authorities. While it obviously wouldn't have prevented damage (that part is mostly Frick and Carnegie's fault), the loss of life may have been reduced since some families could have had the chance to seek higher ground.

McCullough was just on 60 Minutes last night and his book on the Flood was briefly mentioned. By briefly I mean probably long enough to acknowledge that he wrote it on a typewriter and nothing more.

[mac5155]

I agree there. These guys were slavedrivers who were about one thing: making money. And they didn't care who they killed or hurt

[meow]

I had no idea Frick and Carnegie were blamed for the Johnstown flood

I used to work at the Johnsyown Flood Museum and probably 90% of guests would say that.

What is the whole story? By them building their hunting club up there it weakened the dam?

There were three run-off pipes that released water from the dam, subsequently alleviating pressure on the dam. These pipes were completely open. The brian trust in charge of the club thought, "You know what, I bet there are some of our fish that swim through those pipes. Well, we don't want any fish to leave the lake like that. Let's put a grate over those pipes. The same amount of water will be able to pass through the grate, but our prized little fishies won't be able to escape." All that worked out just peachy until debris began to collect and clog the grates. Once the big rain storm came, it filled the dam beyond what it could hold and poof, the Johnstown Flood on 1889 - 2,209 dead.

[mac5155]

That is nuts. They said on the program that bodies were found in Cincinnati!

[JS©]

I had no idea Frick and Carnegie were blamed for the Johnstown flood

I used to work at the Johnsyown Flood Museum and probably 90% of guests would say that.

What is the whole story? By them building their hunting club up there it weakened the dam?

There were three run-off pipes that released water from the dam, subsequently alleviating pressure on the dam. These pipes were completely open. The brian trust in charge of the club thought, "You know what, I bet there are some of our fish that swim through those pipes. Well, we don't want any fish to leave the lake like that. Let's put a grate over those pipes. The same amount of water will be able to pass through the grate, but our prized little fishies won't be able to escape." All that worked out just peachy until debris began to collect and clog the grates. Once the big rain storm came, it filled the dam beyond what it could hold and poof, the Johnstown Flood on 1889 - 2,209 dead.

I thought I read somewhere that they got rid of the pipes.

[pittsoccer33]

We are still being taxed to pay for the Johnstown Flood. Every time you go to the liquor store.

Most of the good programming is on H2 now.

[KennyTheKangaroo]

kenny the kangaroo is not sure that they neccessarily "got rid" of the pipes. IKTKRC, in between the time it was used for the canal and the hunting/fishing club purchased the property, vandals/theives stole the metal from the pipes for scrap. instead of spending the $$$ to fix the pipes, the club members opted to ingore such a feature. as a result, the only way for water to get out of the lake was through the spillway.

[mac5155]

According to the show, the top of the damn was shaved down to make it wider for HC Frick's carriage to be able to cross it.

[JS©]

We are still being taxed to pay for the Johnstown Flood. Every time you go to the liquor store.
Most of the good programming is on H2 now.

Don't get me started on the Flood Tax What started out as a 10% tax is now an 18% tax that goes to the states "general fund" (read: political pocket money.) Basically none of it goes to it's original purpose. I'm curious when they changed this. Not sure when anybody has strolled through Jtown last, but there are still parts that look like they haven't recovered from the flood.....the original one.

kenny the kangaroo is not sure that they neccessarily "got rid" of the pipes. IKTKRC, in between the time it was used for the canal and the hunting/fishing club purchased the property, vandals/theives stole the metal from the pipes for scrap. instead of spending the $$$ to fix the pipes, the club members opted to ingore such a feature. as a result, the only way for water to get out of the lake was through the spillway.

found this on wiki, although posted without a source:
Additionally, a previous owner had removed and sold for scrap the three cast iron discharge pipes that previously allowed a controlled release of water. There had been some speculation as to the dam's integrity, and concerns had been raised by the head of the Cambria Iron Works downstream in Johnstown.

According to the show, the top of the damn was shaved down to make it wider for HC Frick's carriage to be able to cross it.

Also from wiki: Development included lowering the dam to make its top wide enough to hold a road, and putting a fish screen in the spillway (the screen also trapped debris). These alterations are thought to have increased the vulnerability of the dam.

[mac5155]

Im up to the JP Morgan episode. It was so cool hearing about Carnegie's relationship with Tom Scott and how he got a hatred for Rockefeller. Also, I wonder how accurate this show is portraying Henry Frick. I always knew he was a ruthless businessman but this show is making him out to be absolutely cut-throat. Also never knew about the Mississippi river bridge and how that basically gave Carnegie all the ideas for the steel industry.

[KennyTheKangaroo]

watched the finale last night and quite frankly it was as enjoyable as the rest of the series. the wealth those guys accumulated is just draw dropping. something like a combined $600 billion in todays money.

[mac5155]

It would never fly though. These guys are the reason for government regulation.

[legame]

The title of the series itself is infuriating...

[mac5155]

Why? They built america into what it is today. Without them we're still an agrarian society and no way we can sustain 300+ million people like that.

[legame]

As a historian, I subscribe more to the idea of history from below than the great man theory. In my opinion, millions of African Americans and poor European immigrants built America.

[legame]

That's not to say there's no value in it or that I don't enjoy watching programs like this.