LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby MWB on Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:13 pm

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
I don't hate John Stewart I hate when people watch his show and develop opinions.

For the most part I get annoyed at the folks you listed. I very rarely see a person talk realistically and give me straight news.

I get most of my opinions from personal experience or research.


So you seem to be saying that anyone who agrees with an opinion of a person like Stewart is just doing it because they agree with everything he says. Not that they've developed that opinion on their own, like you have?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:14 pm



So he's not actually spouting factless rhetoric, he's just stating his opinion. And people who agree with his opinion use it as a way of bringing that angle up.[/quote]

Lol.

Semantics of a word. Awesome. As if someone's opinion on a news show is ok when his followers state it as fact.[/quote]

Wait, you think The Daily Show is a news show? Maybe that's the problem. It mostly just takes shots at how bad some of the news outlets can be, has humorous commentary, and makes fun of everyone (mostly those on the right, but some on the left as well). The real "news" part is the interviews, which is where Stewart actually is serious and does a better job of interviewing than most main stream types.[/quote][/quote]

I think too many people watch it as a news show. Thats for sure.
Last edited by BurghersAndDogsSports on Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Tico Rick on Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:14 pm

npv708 wrote:What a socialist.


He's an Islamic socialist.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby npv708 on Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:15 pm

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:


So he's not actually spouting factless rhetoric, he's just stating his opinion. And people who agree with his opinion use it as a way of bringing that angle up.


Lol.

Semantics of a word. Awesome. As if someone's opinion on a news show is ok when his followers state it as fact.[/quote]

Wait, you think The Daily Show is a news show? Maybe that's the problem. It mostly just takes shots at how bad some of the news outlets can be, has humorous commentary, and makes fun of everyone (mostly those on the right, but some on the left as well). The real "news" part is the interviews, which is where Stewart actually is serious and does a better job of interviewing than most main stream types.[/quote][/quote]

I think too many people watch it as a news show. Thats for sure.[/quote]

I think you severely underestimate your fellow Americans.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby MWB on Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:16 pm

npv708 wrote:
Tico Rick wrote:
npv708 wrote:
Tico Rick wrote:
npv708 wrote:
I prefer a nice blend of Mother Jones, the ACLU newsletter, Michael Moore's twitter feed, and Chris Matthew's hairdresser for all my news.


Well that sounds fair and balanced to me.


Yeah, I know, i like to make sure I only get my information from non-partisan, independent sources.


Wait, are you implying that the Weather Channel is biased?


Are you telling me Heavy Sprinkles doesn't sound like a left-leaning conspiracy to you?


The left would want to ban heavy sprinkles, like they want to ban big gulps.
:pop:
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby npv708 on Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:17 pm

Tico Rick wrote:
npv708 wrote:What a socialist.


He's an Islamic socialist.


Clearly. Look, he's just distributing that weather to everyone equally. Talk about class warfare, making it rain on rich people the same as poor people. He probably voted for the Ayatollah in the last election.
Last edited by npv708 on Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:17 pm

MWB wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
I don't hate John Stewart I hate when people watch his show and develop opinions.

For the most part I get annoyed at the folks you listed. I very rarely see a person talk realistically and give me straight news.

I get most of my opinions from personal experience or research.


So you seem to be saying that anyone who agrees with an opinion of a person like Stewart is just doing it because they agree with everything he says. Not that they've developed that opinion on their own, like you have?


Not what I said at all. Too many people reference and get excited/bothered over something that isnt necessarily real.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby MWB on Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:19 pm

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:I think too many people watch it as a news show. Thats for sure.


You seem to take your overall negative view of the people you interact with on a daily basis and bring it into this thread. A lot of people in this thread are pretty knowledgeable about a variety of political topics and really have formed their own opinions (not me mind you, I just drool over John Stewart's first 8 minutes, but others do).
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:19 pm

I generally read/watch/listen to right-wing media.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby MWB on Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:20 pm

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
MWB wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
I don't hate John Stewart I hate when people watch his show and develop opinions.

For the most part I get annoyed at the folks you listed. I very rarely see a person talk realistically and give me straight news.

I get most of my opinions from personal experience or research.


So you seem to be saying that anyone who agrees with an opinion of a person like Stewart is just doing it because they agree with everything he says. Not that they've developed that opinion on their own, like you have?


Not what I said at all. Too many people reference and get excited/bothered over something that isnt necessarily real.


Like death panels?

Seriously, I'm trying to figure out if you're talking about people in this thread, or other people.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby npv708 on Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:20 pm

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
MWB wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
I don't hate John Stewart I hate when people watch his show and develop opinions.

For the most part I get annoyed at the folks you listed. I very rarely see a person talk realistically and give me straight news.

I get most of my opinions from personal experience or research.


So you seem to be saying that anyone who agrees with an opinion of a person like Stewart is just doing it because they agree with everything he says. Not that they've developed that opinion on their own, like you have?


Not what I said at all. Too many people reference and get excited/bothered over something that isnt necessarily real.


Well, then what do you say about the study that came out (from FDU) that found viewers of the Daily Show are more politically informed than viewers of Fox News?

Edit: link http://publicmind.fdu.edu/2012/confirmed/
Last edited by npv708 on Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:21 pm

MWB wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:I think too many people watch it as a news show. Thats for sure.


You seem to take your overall negative view of the people you interact with on a daily basis and bring it into this thread. A lot of people in this thread are pretty knowledgeable about a variety of political topics and really have formed their own opinions (not me mind you, I just drool over John Stewart's first 8 minutes, but others do).


I get that I am not clear enough, but I am not always talking about this people in this thread. I am mostly referring to an overwhelming voice I hear daily in the depths of the Pittsburgh world.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby MWB on Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:02 pm

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
MWB wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:I think too many people watch it as a news show. Thats for sure.


You seem to take your overall negative view of the people you interact with on a daily basis and bring it into this thread. A lot of people in this thread are pretty knowledgeable about a variety of political topics and really have formed their own opinions (not me mind you, I just drool over John Stewart's first 8 minutes, but others do).


I get that I am not clear enough, but I am not always talking about this people in this thread. I am mostly referring to an overwhelming voice I hear daily in the depths of the Pittsburgh world.


Fair enough... I just think you've got a different audience here.

One other thing about Stewart... I'm surprised you're not a fan, because he points out the same types of hypocrisy that you rail against. Like this on part of the health care:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/1 ... 76410.html
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:09 pm

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:once Barry won the primary he turned his focus to the profitable company healthcare plan with a minimum profit pay or play system that in my estimation was a solid start to his entire class warfare campaign that has been so effective.

His first public comment endorsing the idea of the mandate was in July 2009, after he had been president for seven months, and some four months after the legislative meetings began.


what are you saying? He didint have a health are plan after he won the primaries?

No, Obama's plan (as revealed in the primary season) was focused mainly on controlling costs, not on expanding coverage (which is pretty much the exact opposite of the ACA), created an insurance pool and even had some element of non-profit participation by private insurance companies. (His plan was pilloried in the press as being no real reform, as it left a fairly sizable chunk of people uninsured) This is the plan that was his opening position for the reform negotiations that began in March 2009. Four months later, he dropped his opposition to the mandate.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby jf on Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:20 pm

tifosi77 wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:once Barry won the primary he turned his focus to the profitable company healthcare plan with a minimum profit pay or play system that in my estimation was a solid start to his entire class warfare campaign that has been so effective.

His first public comment endorsing the idea of the mandate was in July 2009, after he had been president for seven months, and some four months after the legislative meetings began.


what are you saying? He didint have a health are plan after he won the primaries?

No, Obama's plan (as revealed in the primary season) was focused mainly on controlling costs, not on expanding coverage (which is pretty much the exact opposite of the ACA), created an insurance pool and even had some element of non-profit participation by private insurance companies. (His plan was pilloried in the press as being no real reform, as it left a fairly sizable chunk of people uninsured) This is the plan that was his opening position for the reform negotiations that began in March 2009. Four months later, he dropped his opposition to the mandate.

If the ACA was not his plan . why didn't he veto it.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:24 pm

Maine GOP Chairman : "I Play Basketball Every Sunday With a Black Guy"
http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2012/ ... eople.html

Are these people for real?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby npv708 on Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:26 pm

columbia wrote:Maine GOP Chairman : "I Play Basketball Every Sunday With a Black Guy"
http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2012/ ... eople.html

Are these people for real?


Image
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:30 pm

jf wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:once Barry won the primary he turned his focus to the profitable company healthcare plan with a minimum profit pay or play system that in my estimation was a solid start to his entire class warfare campaign that has been so effective.

His first public comment endorsing the idea of the mandate was in July 2009, after he had been president for seven months, and some four months after the legislative meetings began.


what are you saying? He didint have a health are plan after he won the primaries?

No, Obama's plan (as revealed in the primary season) was focused mainly on controlling costs, not on expanding coverage (which is pretty much the exact opposite of the ACA), created an insurance pool and even had some element of non-profit participation by private insurance companies. (His plan was pilloried in the press as being no real reform, as it left a fairly sizable chunk of people uninsured) This is the plan that was his opening position for the reform negotiations that began in March 2009. Four months later, he dropped his opposition to the mandate.

If the ACA was not his plan . why didn't he veto it.

He changed his plan to incorporate the mandate, the thinking being that since it was a conservative idea that had been floating around since 1989 (and was the core of many of the Republican counter-proposals to Hillarycare in 1993/4, and was a component of Romneycare in Massachusetts) and had significant bi-partisan support in the past that Congressional Republicans would be more willing work for a compromise in that framework.

Little did Obama and the Democrats know that between 1994 and 2009/10, the definition of the word "socialist" had been changed to include anything promoted by the Kenyan Muslim non-president...... including even the Republican's own ideas.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:53 pm

MWB wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
MWB wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:I think too many people watch it as a news show. Thats for sure.


You seem to take your overall negative view of the people you interact with on a daily basis and bring it into this thread. A lot of people in this thread are pretty knowledgeable about a variety of political topics and really have formed their own opinions (not me mind you, I just drool over John Stewart's first 8 minutes, but others do).


I get that I am not clear enough, but I am not always talking about this people in this thread. I am mostly referring to an overwhelming voice I hear daily in the depths of the Pittsburgh world.


Fair enough... I just think you've got a different audience here.

One other thing about Stewart... I'm surprised you're not a fan, because he points out the same types of hypocrisy that you rail against. Like this on part of the health care:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/1 ... 76410.html


I more just don't like the reaction to a lot of these types of shows anymore. They used to be for entertainment, now these guys are panelists on talk shows.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Geezer on Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:10 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:^^^^ Exactly what I'm talking about. Over the last few months the PDT has turned from a discussion thread into a circlejerk of who can come up with the snarkiest, wittiest, and most sarcastic one-liner. Knock yourselves out.

You make that sound like that's a bad thing.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:15 pm

npv708 wrote:
Tico Rick wrote:McCain skips Benghazi briefing:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/15/mccain-skips-benghazi-briefing-gets-testy-when-questioned-by-cnn/?hpt=hp_t1

(Sorry if this was posted before; I've just been sporadically checking this thread lately.)


I love the headline from Foreign Policy magazine...

"Republicans skip Benghazi hearing; complain about lack of information on Benghazi"

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts ... n_benghazi

Paul spokeswoman Moira Bagley tells The Cable: "Sen. Paul didn't need to attend yet another Administration press conference disguised as a classified briefing to know there should have been Marines defending our personnel in Libya, to hear the Administration make the same excuses in private they will make in public. Sen. Paul is focused on demanding answers, demanding those who made these fatal mistake be fired, and fixing the mess this Administration has made. All of that needs to be done in public, for Americans to see and hear."

:lol:

He not only fell really far from the tree, I'm not even sure he's an apple.

I think it's interesting that after Romney was briefed on Benghazi, he stopped really bringing it up. Was asked about it point blank at the third and final debate, and he punted. To me, that's telling. I think there's much ado about nothing here, all bluster and no substance.

That is not by any means meant to imply that the deaths of four Americans on sovereign U.S. soil in an overseas land is insignificant. There are issues, and they must be sorted out. But 'cover up'? Watergate-style hearings? I don't think there's any 'there' there. It screams of an attempt to manufacture outrage over something that, while certainly tragic and probably preventable, doesn't rise to this level of fuss.

I'm sure if left to his own devices, in time Obama will deliver the second term scandal we all know he has in him. But this..... ain't it.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Geezer on Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:16 pm

columbia wrote:Maine GOP Chairman : "I Play Basketball Every Sunday With a Black Guy"
http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2012/ ... eople.html

Are these people for real?

His basketball buddy must commute to Maine; No blacks really live there ,do they?

This guy thinks he's open-minded? Some of my best friends are liberal. I deserve some kind of civic award.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:28 pm

[/quote]
No, Obama's plan (as revealed in the primary season) was focused mainly on controlling costs, not on expanding coverage (which is pretty much the exact opposite of the ACA), created an insurance pool and even had some element of non-profit participation by private insurance companies. (His plan was pilloried in the press as being no real reform, as it left a fairly sizable chunk of people uninsured) This is the plan that was his opening position for the reform negotiations that began in March 2009. Four months later, he dropped his opposition to the mandate.[/quote]
If the ACA was not his plan . why didn't he veto it.[/quote]
He changed his plan to incorporate the mandate, the thinking being that since it was a conservative idea that had been floating around since 1989 (and was the core of many of the Republican counter-proposals to Hillarycare in 1993/4, and was a component of Romneycare in Massachusetts) and had significant bi-partisan support in the past that Congressional Republicans would be more willing work for a compromise in that framework.

Little did Obama and the Democrats know that between 1994 and 2009/10, the definition of the word "socialist" had been changed to include anything promoted by the Kenyan Muslim non-president...... including even the Republican's own ideas.[/quote]

So in the debate, he tore Hillary a new one and even mocked her with questions about how this could even be a reality. Then after, he went back to her plan because that could get passed. And now he is a hero, even though Bill and Hillary were all but "approval rated" out on what he ultimately put in? So anyways.....

The biggest issue you are missing in your reply is you start at the primaries - because he had 100% support of the mandate [b]PRIOR to the primaries[/b], his destruction of it during (which you note above) and his back tracking of it after. You can claim bipartisan all you want on the last part but you can not start a book halfway through and claim the last switch was for bipartisan reaons- I think its pretty clear that it was in his plans all along.....since he actually had said that in his recent past. He didnt switch to garner some right wing support. He switched to go back to his original beliefs.

Not to mention that everyone focuses on a few elements of the act/history and forgets that he originally put a lot of planning into the taxing of businesses with exemptions to less profitable entities - that the public loved (and had zero chance of getting passed on a thousand different levels)- all that went away.

These all were not bipartisan angles. These were clear blatantly dishonest moves by him.

Just as you can claim that there is back and forth from the right on this plan and their attacking of anything he does as socialist, the backlash to this plan isnt about one or two issues that are always pointed out. Followed up with its pretty clear Obama knew exactly what he was doing.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:28 pm

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:

No, Obama's plan (as revealed in the primary season) was focused mainly on controlling costs, not on expanding coverage (which is pretty much the exact opposite of the ACA), created an insurance pool and even had some element of non-profit participation by private insurance companies. (His plan was pilloried in the press as being no real reform, as it left a fairly sizable chunk of people uninsured) This is the plan that was his opening position for the reform negotiations that began in March 2009. Four months later, he dropped his opposition to the mandate.

If the ACA was not his plan . why didn't he veto it.[/quote]
He changed his plan to incorporate the mandate, the thinking being that since it was a conservative idea that had been floating around since 1989 (and was the core of many of the Republican counter-proposals to Hillarycare in 1993/4, and was a component of Romneycare in Massachusetts) and had significant bi-partisan support in the past that Congressional Republicans would be more willing work for a compromise in that framework.

Little did Obama and the Democrats know that between 1994 and 2009/10, the definition of the word "socialist" had been changed to include anything promoted by the Kenyan Muslim non-president...... including even the Republican's own ideas.[/quote][/quote]

So in the debate, he tore Hillary a new one and even mocked her with questions about how this could even be a reality. Then after, he went back to her plan because that could get passed. And now he is a hero, even though Bill and Hillary were all but "approval rated" out on what he ultimately put in? So anyways.....

The biggest issue you are missing in your reply is you start at the primaries - because he had 100% support of the mandate [b]PRIOR to the primaries[/b], his destruction of it during (which you note above) and his back tracking of it after. You can claim bipartisan all you want on the last part but you can not start a book halfway through and claim the last switch was for bipartisan reaons- I think its pretty clear that it was in his plans all along.....since he actually had said that in his recent past. He didnt switch to garner some right wing support. He switched to go back to his original beliefs.

Not to mention that everyone focuses on a few elements of the act/history and forgets that he originally put a lot of planning into the taxing of businesses with exemptions to less profitable entities - that the public loved (and had zero chance of getting passed on a thousand different levels)- all that went away.

These all were not bipartisan angles. These were clear blatantly dishonest moves by him.

Just as you can claim that there is back and forth from the right on this plan and their attacking of anything he does as socialist, the backlash to this plan isnt about one or two issues that are always pointed out. Followed up with its pretty clear Obama knew exactly what he was doing.[/quote]
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:29 pm

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:

No, Obama's plan (as revealed in the primary season) was focused mainly on controlling costs, not on expanding coverage (which is pretty much the exact opposite of the ACA), created an insurance pool and even had some element of non-profit participation by private insurance companies. (His plan was pilloried in the press as being no real reform, as it left a fairly sizable chunk of people uninsured) This is the plan that was his opening position for the reform negotiations that began in March 2009. Four months later, he dropped his opposition to the mandate.

If the ACA was not his plan . why didn't he veto it.


He changed his plan to incorporate the mandate, the thinking being that since it was a conservative idea that had been floating around since 1989 (and was the core of many of the Republican counter-proposals to Hillarycare in 1993/4, and was a component of Romneycare in Massachusetts) and had significant bi-partisan support in the past that Congressional Republicans would be more willing work for a compromise in that framework.

Little did Obama and the Democrats know that between 1994 and 2009/10, the definition of the word "socialist" had been changed to include anything promoted by the Kenyan Muslim non-president...... including even the Republican's own ideas.


So in the debate, he tore Hillary a new one and even mocked her with questions about how this could even be a reality. Then after, he went back to her plan because that could get passed. And now he is a hero, even though Bill and Hillary were all but "approval rated" out on what he ultimately put in? So anyways.....

The biggest issue you are missing in your reply is you start at the primaries - because he had 100% support of the mandate prior to the primaries! his destruction of it during (which you note above) and his back tracking of it after. You can claim bipartisan all you want on the last part but you can not start a book halfway through and claim the last switch was for bipartisan reasons- I think its pretty clear that it was in his plans all along.....since he actually had said that in his recent past. He didnt switch to garner some right wing support. He switched to go back to his original beliefs and had switched them in the primaries to oust Hillary.

Not to mention that everyone focuses on a few elements of the act/history and forgets that he originally put a lot of planning into the taxing of businesses with exemptions to less profitable entities - that the public loved (and had zero chance of getting passed on a thousand different levels)- all that went away.

These all were not bipartisan angles. These were clear blatantly dishonest moves by him.

Just as you can claim that there is back and forth from the right on this plan and their attacking of anything he does as socialist, the backlash to this plan isnt about one or two issues that are always pointed out. Followed up with its pretty clear Obama knew exactly what he was doing.
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