Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby columbia on Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:53 pm

What the.....
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby ulf on Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:53 pm

their attendance might be negative next year
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby ulf on Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:00 pm

Giancarlo Stanton ‏@Giancarlo818
Alright, I'm pissed off!!! Plain & Simple
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby ulf on Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:12 pm

Hey Huntington, get Stanton. That would be sexy.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Troy Loney on Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:18 pm

ulf wrote:Hey Huntington, get Stanton. That would be sexy.


He should have gone for the players they were giving away for medicore talent.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby ulf on Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:20 pm

Yeah I wouldn't mind Reyes. Johnson is a stud but is never healthy. The rest, meh. Bonifacio is a stud but we don't need another speedy corner OF. Stanton would fit in so well.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Troy Loney on Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:23 pm

Probably could have had Johnson, Buerhle and Reyes in the salary dump. Probably would have taken Marte, one of the pitching prospects, and I don't Josh Harrison, Escobar is pretty worthless nowadays.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby offsides on Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:06 pm

ulf wrote:The Marlins just traded their whole team, sans Stanton, to Toronto. Reyes, Josh Johnson, Bonifacio, Buck, Buehrle all gone.


Just unreal!

"After the trade, the club has roughly $16 million on the books for 2013, not including arbitration-eligible players."

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/miam ... cio-111312
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby MRandall25 on Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:06 pm

Who stole Miami's GM phone?
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Mr. Colby on Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:32 pm

Stanton would be so sexxxxy on the Pirates... would require way too much though and we'd only have him for like 2 years
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:28 pm

Mr. Colby wrote:Stanton would be so sexxxxy on the Pirates... would require way too much though and we'd only have him for like 2 years


Why? He is arbitration eligible starting in 2014 and not a UFA until 2017. If they ask for Marte and a pitcher I'd do in a minute.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby since1970 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:53 pm

....it's ridiculous our FO feels they have their team in place for 2013. They care nothing about last years lessons. Attendance thru the roof when they were winning and then nothing during the collapse. Money was already guaranteed to them with 2mil in the seats. An owner who WANTED to win would've looked at what caused two straight collapses (one making baseball history) and try to prevent it from becoming a hat trick. The improvement to 79 games almost wasn't, and an owner with pride who's a baseball fan would never accept the failings of players and management that occured in the second half. They'd do things to try and ensure a better result, not go into the next season with the same question marks as the previous year, those being SS, corner outfield, first base, catcher. To be 16 games over .500 and end up 2 games under to me isn't improvement at all, it's a step backward. To have the tenth richest owner in the sport and the fans proving that when you put a winner on the field they'll come, and to not increase your payroll?? Selig is pissed at Loria, but not at Nutting, is it because the Brewers are in our division? Talk about the "integrity of the sport"........
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:17 pm

since1970 wrote:....it's ridiculous our FO feels they have their team in place for 2013. They care nothing about last years lessons. Attendance thru the roof when they were winning and then nothing during the collapse. Money was already guaranteed to them with 2mil in the seats. An owner who WANTED to win would've looked at what caused two straight collapses (one making baseball history) and try to prevent it from becoming a hat trick. The improvement to 79 games almost wasn't, and an owner with pride who's a baseball fan would never accept the failings of players and management that occured in the second half. They'd do things to try and ensure a better result, not go into the next season with the same question marks as the previous year, those being SS, corner outfield, first base, catcher. To be 16 games over .500 and end up 2 games under to me isn't improvement at all, it's a step backward. To have the tenth richest owner in the sport and the fans proving that when you put a winner on the field they'll come, and to not increase your payroll?? Selig is pissed at Loria, but not at Nutting, is it because the Brewers are in our division? Talk about the "integrity of the sport"........


To be honest, there just isn't much out there in the Free Agent market that improves the team at a reasonable cost. The biggest improvement could be made to our starting staff, but with some of our young arms on the fringe I'm not sure I'd bring in a 4th/5th starter.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby since1970 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:02 pm

unless you're getting top tier FA's, it's not a way to markedly improve, but the names out there being shopped could improve, but that requires increasing payroll, and not by 20mil, but Nutting won't ok it. Prospects are always tough to give up, especially when you over value them.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Troy Loney on Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:04 pm

I'd like to see what anyone complaining about the pirates not spending money, would be doing. Brandon McCarthy makes some sense to replace Correia, but that might take 3 years and $30MM. They have no choice but to sign a catcher, but with the best option being Russell Martin...there's not much to get excited about there.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby since1970 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:41 pm

Spending money isn't exclusive to free agents, there's the trade route as well, but I'm not sure I'll ever see a day where the Pirates pay a position player 12/15mil a year, which isn't crazy by today's market. If they draw 2.5 or 2.75, which last year proved the could, and with the increase each team is getting in TV revenue, and your owner is a billionaire is it unreasonable to expect a payroll of 70/75mil ? I'm not one to think that they need to spend 85/90mil, but to constantly be in the lowest 5 or 3 in salary year after year is a joke.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:58 pm

since1970 wrote:Spending money isn't exclusive to free agents, there's the trade route as well, but I'm not sure I'll ever see a day where the Pirates pay a position player 12/15mil a year, which isn't crazy by today's market. If they draw 2.5 or 2.75, which last year proved the could, and with the increase each team is getting in TV revenue, and your owner is a billionaire is it unreasonable to expect a payroll of 70/75mil ? I'm not one to think that they need to spend 85/90mil, but to constantly be in the lowest 5 or 3 in salary year after year is a joke.


But you can't just spend money to spend it. The contracts the Marlins gave Reyes and Burele were a joke.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby since1970 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:07 pm

They made a business decision, just as they did in signing Melky. They feel with the Yankees/Red Sox in decline they took the risk. I'm not advocating that kind of payroll, but Cabrera signs for 8mil a year in Toronto, and forget the steriods, would it have been unreasonable for the Pirates to offer that....
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:11 pm

since1970 wrote:They made a business decision, just as they did in signing Melky. They feel with the Yankees/Red Sox in decline they took the risk. I'm not advocating that kind of payroll, but Cabrera signs for 8mil a year in Toronto, and forget the steriods, would it have been unreasonable for the Pirates to offer that....


I'd rather have BJ Upton at that price, but your point is valid. 8M for a player like that isn't unreasonable especially for 2 years.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby since1970 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:26 pm

The problem here is we know 8mil might as well be 800mil, and even though what the Jays did seems a little over the top it looks to me like they feel now is the time to win, which is something I doubt we'll see here as long as Nutting continues to run a sports franchise like a newspaper. Who knows, maybe it'll bite the Jays in the behind, but what do you think ticket sales and anticipation is there? A sports franchise should be a break even proposition not a profit making venture, they're rich guys toys, not a business to add to personal wealth, they're generally about swagger, ego, and bragging rites. I'm not against them making money, unless they do it at the expense of the on field product, then it either sell because you can't afford a team, or sell because you have no interest in winning.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:46 pm

since1970 wrote:The problem here is we know 8mil might as well be 800mil, and even though what the Jays did seems a little over the top it looks to me like they feel now is the time to win, which is something I doubt we'll see here as long as Nutting continues to run a sports franchise like a newspaper. Who knows, maybe it'll bite the Jays in the behind, but what do you think ticket sales and anticipation is there? A sports franchise should be a break even proposition not a profit making venture, they're rich guys toys, not a business to add to personal wealth, they're generally about swagger, ego, and bragging rites. I'm not against them making money, unless they do it at the expense of the on field product, then it either sell because you can't afford a team, or sell because you have no interest in winning.



I'm as disappointed as the next guy because of the way this past season ended, but there were definitely improvements made both in talent on the MLB roster and in the Win column. This upcoming season has to build on the momentum, and if the Pirates take a step back in 2013 I think all of the progress that has been made will be nullified.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby since1970 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:57 pm

I look at last year as failure. I knew they weren't going to stay 16 games above .500, but where they were to where they finished? That to me is as bad as if they lost 100 games, if you play .300 baseball for 3 months and don't improve it seems to me to be a prescription for failure next year if you stand pat. When you've been as bad as this club 7 or 9 wins seems like a good thing, but it's a ridiculous yard stick. This organization should be well past baby steps. In the past six years they should've been able to get to .500 by adding SMART free agents with their home grown talent, but again that would've required financial committment from the owner and maybe some competancy from your GM, and we have neither.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby ulf on Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:58 pm

Can we at least wait until the pirates do nothing until we bash them for doing nothing?
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:02 pm

since1970 wrote:I look at last year as failure. I knew they weren't going to stay 16 games above .500, but where they were to where they finished? That to me is as bad as if they lost 100 games, if you play .300 baseball for 3 months and don't improve it seems to me to be a prescription for failure next year if you stand pat. When you've been as bad as this club 7 or 9 wins seems like a good thing, but it's a ridiculous yard stick. This organization should be well past baby steps. In the past six years they should've been able to get to .500 by adding SMART free agents with their home grown talent, but again that would've required financial committment from the owner and maybe some competancy from your GM, and we have neither.


Walker got hurt and they leaned too much on their young players. Down the stretch that is going to end in disaster 9/10 times.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby since1970 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:04 pm

Our GM has already said they won't be doing anything so that to me speaks volumes
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