Lockout

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Re: Lockout

Postby pens_CT on Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:35 pm

Gaucho wrote:I have no idea what the owners want at this point.

They want to get to 50/50 this season, not in 4 yrs per the NHLPA plan.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Sarcastic on Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:35 pm

I am removing my Crosby jersey. Back in the closet you go.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:36 pm

Gaucho wrote:I have no idea what the owners want at this point.


Oh wait, I do: They don't want to honor existing contracts.

Well, shame on the players, I guess.
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Re: Lockout

Postby the riddler on Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:38 pm

This is a big move by the PA so the NHL probably figures that since they're making concessions they're going to keep making them. It's a negotiating tactic but further proves the point that it's all about winning and not about a compromise.
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Re: Lockout

Postby pens_CT on Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:46 pm

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Re: Lockout

Postby newarenanow on Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:52 pm

Does anyone else think the Fehr brothers feel like they are taking on a different animal with the NHL vs MLB?
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Re: Lockout

Postby jmh470 on Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:53 pm

I have yet to understand the consternation over the unfulfilled years of existing contracts. The players are behaving as if they have already performed those years of bargained-for service and are simply waiting for the paychecks to arrive. Neither party has performed on those years and, as such, they are legally, rationally, and ethically open to negotiation, and I'm not even considering the 'subject to existing CBA' language in every contract.

*insert 'deal with it' .gif*
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Re: Lockout

Postby newarenanow on Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:54 pm

pens_CT wrote:For those who like to look at numbers and comparisons between the NHL and NHLPA proposals see below.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/globe-on-hockey/the-nhlpa-proposal-by-the-numbers/article5530468/?cmpid=rss1&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


Thanks for the link. Nice breakdown.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:56 pm

jmh470 wrote:I have yet to understand the consternation over the unfulfilled years of existing contracts. The players are behaving as if they have already performed those years of bargained-for service and are simply waiting for the paychecks to arrive. Neither party has performed on those years and, as such, they are legally, rationally, and ethically open to negotiation, and I'm not even considering the 'subject to existing CBA' language in every contract.

*insert 'deal with it' .gif*


That is an... er, interesting take on it.
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Re: Lockout

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:59 pm

I read the article. From what I gather, the players have offered nothing new. If I'm Daly, I'm taking this into the bathroom and using it for what it was intended for. What a waste of paper.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Sarcastic on Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:03 pm

Yeah, jmh. If they're taking too much money, then why wait 4-5 years for owners to receive their usable/workable share of revenue. How much loss for a player on a $10 million (to make it easy) contract are we talking about?
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Re: Lockout

Postby jmh470 on Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:06 pm

Gaucho wrote:
jmh470 wrote:I have yet to understand the consternation over the unfulfilled years of existing contracts. The players are behaving as if they have already performed those years of bargained-for service and are simply waiting for the paychecks to arrive. Neither party has performed on those years and, as such, they are legally, rationally, and ethically open to negotiation, and I'm not even considering the 'subject to existing CBA' language in every contract.

*insert 'deal with it' .gif*


That is an... er, interesting take on it.


If by 'interesting' you mean 'the proper legal interpretation of those contracts,' then it is, indeed, quite 'interesting.'
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Re: Lockout

Postby FreeCandy44 on Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:09 pm

skullman80 wrote:Both sides can go F themselves at this point.

I completely agree...I refuse to buy any pens stuff for x mas. I'm beyond sick of this...NFL got it done, NBA got it done. Screw it.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Sarcastic on Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:12 pm

FreeCandy44 wrote:I refuse to buy any pens stuff for x mas.


That will show those bastards.
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Re: Lockout

Postby no name on Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:14 pm

Gaucho wrote:
jmh470 wrote:I have yet to understand the consternation over the unfulfilled years of existing contracts. The players are behaving as if they have already performed those years of bargained-for service and are simply waiting for the paychecks to arrive. Neither party has performed on those years and, as such, they are legally, rationally, and ethically open to negotiation, and I'm not even considering the 'subject to existing CBA' language in every contract.

*insert 'deal with it' .gif*


That is an... er, interesting take on it.


I kinda look at it as, the owners\GM offered you this contract for this ammount of money for your services, they should atleast honor the contract they gave you. Imagine if you leased a car, even though you have got no prefoprmace out of that car 2 years down the road the car dealership wants to charge you more all of a sudden.

Don't get me wrong, i clearly think over all the players are asking for way to much in every other catogory, but as far as honoring the contracts (the owners\gms chose to give) the players, they should have to pay those promised dollars.
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Re: Lockout

Postby tfrizz on Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:16 pm

RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:I read the article. From what I gather, the players have offered nothing new. If I'm Daly, I'm taking this into the bathroom and using it for what it was intended for. What a waste of paper.


They've offered a lot of new things, here are a few:

  1. They've agreed to the NHL's request for a 50/50 split of HRR starting in Year 1.
  2. They requested $393-million in compensation through Make Whole. This is up from the $211-million the owners have offered, but down from the $592-million previously requested.
  3. They've actually provided a full proposal including contracting issues, as opposed to just some financials.
  4. They rejected many of the NHL's "secondary" proposals, but have countered with their own.

There won't be a true 50/50 split of HRR over the life of this CBA because of the Make Whole provision, so anyone looking for that is going to be sorely disappointed. They key to the financial side of this is that the NHLPA has agreed to a 50/50 split of HRR and that sets the framework for the any new CBAs moving forward.

As has been noted, the NHL and NHLPA's offers - financially - are only $182-million apart. That amounts to a little over $1.5-million per team per year over the four-year course of the Make Whole provision.
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Re: Lockout

Postby FreeCandy44 on Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:18 pm

Sarcastic wrote:
FreeCandy44 wrote:I refuse to buy any pens stuff for x mas.


That will show those bastards.


Its the point of the matter.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:23 pm

jmh470 wrote:
Gaucho wrote:
jmh470 wrote:I have yet to understand the consternation over the unfulfilled years of existing contracts. The players are behaving as if they have already performed those years of bargained-for service and are simply waiting for the paychecks to arrive. Neither party has performed on those years and, as such, they are legally, rationally, and ethically open to negotiation, and I'm not even considering the 'subject to existing CBA' language in every contract.

*insert 'deal with it' .gif*


That is an... er, interesting take on it.


If by 'interesting' you mean 'the proper legal interpretation of those contracts,' then it is, indeed, quite 'interesting.'


I normally mean 'interesting' when I say 'interesting'.
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Re: Lockout

Postby mikey287 on Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:40 pm

Gaucho wrote:
mikey287 wrote:I'm sure the pro-union propagandists will make a big stink about the NHL's response (before fully hearing their position) but the owners have bent already...this is the first time the players have come to the table with anything remotely reasonable. I just got back from work, so I'm just now digesting some of this issue, but I see that a lot of the PA's proposals involve flat dollars...meaning that it is no longer linked to revenues...I don't understand how that can be accepted by the owners. We just lost an entire season over that issue, now we're gonna lose another one because the terrorist wants to undo it...? Come on...

I'll await the NHL's response...but the PA's offer, AIUI, seems to take its sweet time getting down to 50/50, the other sports leagues are there and have been there...not in 2017...


Isn't it a tad ridiculous to call Fehr a "terrorist"?


Nope. Not the first time and not the last either in this thread I'm sure.

He doesn't even want to bend this far...it's the people under him that are getting antsy...he wants to destroy it, like he destroyed baseball. Destruction, chaos, panic...sounds like terrorism.

Read over the proposal briefly. See some de-linkage, some softening of the cap as well plus a bunch of money that they may or may not have gotten anyhow (pending revenues/escrow) is a demand of theirs...players seem very interested in short term cashing in using big market teams to do the spending, little concern with the game itself and sustainability of markets to allow for overall growth which would benefit them much more over the long haul...
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Re: Lockout

Postby Hawkeynut on Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:04 pm

Hawkeynut wrote:My head hurts.

I can't wait for the NHL to flat out reject it to see the fall out. At this point I am about as cynical as they come.


YEAH! One more day till the meltdown. I expect more games including the All Star game will be cancelled on Friday.

NHL cancelled the game on poor old Phoenix during the last lockout.. now another desperate team in Columbus is about to loose theirs.

These pathetic group of millionaires and billionaires are sticking themselves.. I love it!!
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Re: Lockout

Postby MRandall25 on Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:17 pm

It was supposed to be in Atlanta, not Phoenix...

Your point is still taken ;)
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Re: Lockout

Postby Bioshock on Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:10 pm

If my math is correct, all the players did today was put on a new spin on the same idea all over again.

At this point, screw both sides. Everyone in other major sports gets that it's business and gets back to work while you guys argue and shoot yourselves in the foot over and over again. You are the worst run organization in all of professional sports. Some people may think what i just said is over dramatic, but hey, those other leagues are playing, aren't they?

Seriously, you make the MLS look like a model sports league. Go screw yourself NHL.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:12 pm

There's never been a lockout or strike in the NBA, NFL, or MLB?
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Re: Lockout

Postby joopen on Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:57 pm

Gaucho wrote:There's never been a lockout or strike in the NBA, NFL, or MLB?


Not 3 consecutive work stoppages at the end of 3 consecutive CBA expirations
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Re: Lockout

Postby KG on Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:58 pm

Wake me when it's over...
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