Lockout

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Re: Lockout

Postby interstorm on Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:04 pm

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:Above when I said 3% I was simply referring to the fact that you can not compare sports business I any other business models. thats it, it's not even reasonable to bring them into the discussion.

why not?

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:if a sports team is worth x amount of dollars it's all on paper in theory. If a business is worth x amount of dollars there are tangible assets, like a building, products, and cash reserve.

there are plenty of businesses with no assets. probably in the next few weeks you're going to hear someone bought the term 'Twinkies' from the now defunct Hostess. they'll be selling a name...and they'll be paying a lot. also, just in case you're in NYC - there are broadway plays that rent space, pay employees and make money. sure - they're probably not worth $240 million on average, but the model is very similar. there are plenty of examples just like these...

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:As far as common sense, that's my point. Everyone keeps coming up with long reasons why the owners are wrong, when the facts are two thirds of them lost money and a handful that made money could have their fortunes turned in one season.

While I do agree that 3 or 4 teams make too much profit I don't know how you fix it being that even if you took all their profit and spread it evenly most teams would still be skating on thin ice.


they have a big hand in losing money!!! look at their decisions -- they hold responsibility for their business. they shouldn't have been running them like they have been. we all laugh each offseason at some of the prices players go for. sarge had a good year last year - i'll give him that - but who in their right mind would have thought he should have gotten that salary? i didn't. maybe if GMs (and the owners giving the go-aheads) showed some restraint player salaries would be more reasonable.

it should also be said that everything we "know" about team finances comes second hand -- as someone stated earlier, NHL franchises may be a de-facto tax shelter for some people.

no team is making "too much" - i don't think that exists. good for toronto, good for new york, good for montreal -- they deserve it!!!

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:In my opinion, sans a few teams, the split needs to come down an some contract stipulations put in place. Up revenue sharing and be down with it.


I'm saying this too!!!! 50/50 makes sense -- just the owners (i believe) don't need to do it effective tomorrow.
because - as i outlined above -- most of them really aren't hurting.
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Re: Lockout

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:31 pm

interstorm wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:Above when I said 3% I was simply referring to the fact that you can not compare sports business I any other business models. thats it, it's not even reasonable to bring them into the discussion.

why not?

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:if a sports team is worth x amount of dollars it's all on paper in theory. If a business is worth x amount of dollars there are tangible assets, like a building, products, and cash reserve.

there are plenty of businesses with no assets. probably in the next few weeks you're going to hear someone bought the term 'Twinkies' from the now defunct Hostess. they'll be selling a name...and they'll be paying a lot. also, just in case you're in NYC - there are broadway plays that rent space, pay employees and make money. sure - they're probably not worth $240 million on average, but the model is very similar. there are plenty of examples just like these...

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:As far as common sense, that's my point. Everyone keeps coming up with long reasons why the owners are wrong, when the facts are two thirds of them lost money and a handful that made money could have their fortunes turned in one season.

While I do agree that 3 or 4 teams make too much profit I don't know how you fix it being that even if you took all their profit and spread it evenly most teams would still be skating on thin ice.


they have a big hand in losing money!!! look at their decisions -- they hold responsibility for their business. they shouldn't have been running them like they have been. we all laugh each offseason at some of the prices players go for. sarge had a good year last year - i'll give him that - but who in their right mind would have thought he should have gotten that salary? i didn't. maybe if GMs (and the owners giving the go-aheads) showed some restraint player salaries would be more reasonable.

it should also be said that everything we "know" about team finances comes second hand -- as someone stated earlier, NHL franchises may be a de-facto tax shelter for some people.

no team is making "too much" - i don't think that exists. good for toronto, good for new york, good for montreal -- they deserve it!!!

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:In my opinion, sans a few teams, the split needs to come down an some contract stipulations put in place. Up revenue sharing and be down with it.


I'm saying this too!!!! 50/50 makes sense -- just the owners (i believe) don't need to do it effective tomorrow.
because - as i outlined above -- most of them really aren't hurting.


There are millions of business in the world. I am sure if we look real hard we can find a handful that carry similar business model, like others in the entertainment industry. Point being most dont, I would bet the number ends up being 99.98 %. And businesses liquidating their assets and/or selling a name out of bankruptcy doesnt really count. For a thousand reasons.

GM's cant show restraint, they are poised by labor laws to act in accordance with the CBA. If players are going to the highest bidder in a free market it is bound to happen, eventually higher cash teams are going to have to pay (other than the NE Patriots who get away with being cheap wads and would have more super bowls if they spent on free agents in defense, if the top money teams in each league didnt max on out on salary it would hurt their overall draw of fans and bring bad will, period). Winning teams draw fans, fans spend money, step 3 profit. Yes, there are bad decisions but if the entire league operated the same it would be collusion. Not to mention most teams dont "do" this to themselves other than maybe Toronto.

A lot of the teams that lost a ton of money has lower pay rolls. And not to mention, everyone expects every GM to be perfect. I mean, heck Ray Shero IS the problem for the defensive contracts he handed out???? It cant happen, there will be bad signings, its a competitive industry.

These rules are not to protect teams form themselves, its to even the playing field so all teams can compete. Thus driving up the popularity, thus making more money for everyone.

The economics of the league need to change. This will minimally effect the players.
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Re: Lockout

Postby BigMcK on Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:35 am

columbia wrote:I mean, plenty of businesses go under and I don't see why an NHL team should be exempt from that possibility.


To only see 6 teams play each other is for a season is good for business?

*complete understanding of profit and loss*
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Re: Lockout

Postby newarenanow on Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:58 am

One reason I'm excited for this to end, I"m sick of seeing FLyers 5, Pens 1 on the front of the LGP homepage.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:04 am

BigMcK wrote:
columbia wrote:I mean, plenty of businesses go under and I don't see why an NHL team should be exempt from that possibility.


To only see 6 teams play each other is for a season is good for business?

*complete understanding of profit and loss*

Once talent got distributed, more teams would become tolerable to watch and would make more money. For example, Competitive dallas is a huge bed of money...as opposed to crap attendance.
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Re: Lockout

Postby no name on Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:22 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
BigMcK wrote:
columbia wrote:I mean, plenty of businesses go under and I don't see why an NHL team should be exempt from that possibility.


To only see 6 teams play each other is for a season is good for business?

*complete understanding of profit and loss*

Once talent got distributed, more teams would become tolerable to watch and would make more money. For example, Competitive dallas is a huge bed of money...as opposed to crap attendance.


there will always be good teams and bad teams no matter how you contract. Some markets just need time to rebound. And once you rebound another team will fall. Its just a on going process. What you want is not to have the -20 million dollar seasons some cities have endured. If you could eliminate thoes cites or have it so they only lost only 10 million. Revenue sharing would be much more helpful to thoes bottom feeders.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:39 pm

Sid and AO on Hamrlik. Guess who says all the right things and who's just being a loudmouth.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=410354
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Re: Lockout

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:42 pm

Gaucho wrote:Sid and AO on Hamrlik. Guess who says all the right things and who's just being a loudmouth.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=410354


Read the article and watched the interviews earlier. If one of them is going by the nhlpa playbook it ov. Crosby was more loose with his thoughts.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Godric on Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:47 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Sid and AO on Hamrlik. Guess who says all the right things and who's just being a loudmouth.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=410354


Read the article and watched the interviews earlier. If one of them is going by the nhlpa playbook it ov. Crosby was more loose with his thoughts.


Sid's actually a grown up with an intellect and thinks for himself

OV is a *****bag
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Re: Lockout

Postby Pens15 on Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:02 pm

I could be way off, admittedly, but it seems to me that the fundamental issue is that the owners are trying to force the players to bail out the struggling franchises. I don't blame the players at all for fighting that.
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Re: Lockout

Postby meow on Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:28 pm

My take from that article: OV is worried about his wallet and Crosby is worried about losing the entire season.
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Re: Lockout

Postby tfrizz on Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:29 pm

A source directly associated with NBC Sports has informed me that the NHL specifically requested to NBC that they not broadcast Operation Hat Trick. While it's not definite that NBC would have gone through with the broadcast, the NHL's intervention seems to have been enough to end all discussions of the possibility.


Wow...

http://www.nyrangersblog.com/2012-artic ... trick.html
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:54 pm

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Re: Lockout

Postby no name on Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:46 pm

tfrizz wrote:
A source directly associated with NBC Sports has informed me that the NHL specifically requested to NBC that they not broadcast Operation Hat Trick. While it's not definite that NBC would have gone through with the broadcast, the NHL's intervention seems to have been enough to end all discussions of the possibility.


Wow...

http://www.nyrangersblog.com/2012-artic ... trick.html


Terrible move by the owners concidering the money went ot charity "victims of hurrican sandy" Gary should of allowed it, then match the money the players gave to the victims.
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Re: Lockout

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:08 pm

Pens15 wrote:I could be way off, admittedly, but it seems to me that the fundamental issue is that the owners are trying to force the players to bail out the struggling franchises. I don't blame the players at all for fighting that.


20 teams lost money. 20 teams that provide 500 jobs for players and have to spend at least $45 millio. Per season on them lost money.

there is some truth to your post but a bigger truth is a viable 30 franchises is much better financially in the long run for the players.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Godric on Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:11 pm

no name wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
A source directly associated with NBC Sports has informed me that the NHL specifically requested to NBC that they not broadcast Operation Hat Trick. While it's not definite that NBC would have gone through with the broadcast, the NHL's intervention seems to have been enough to end all discussions of the possibility.


Wow...

http://www.nyrangersblog.com/2012-artic ... trick.html


Terrible move by the owners concidering the money went ot charity "victims of hurrican sandy" Gary should of allowed it, then match the money the players gave to the victims.


What the ****? There needs to be outrage.
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Re: Lockout

Postby offsides on Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:06 pm

Godric wrote:
no name wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
A source directly associated with NBC Sports has informed me that the NHL specifically requested to NBC that they not broadcast Operation Hat Trick. While it's not definite that NBC would have gone through with the broadcast, the NHL's intervention seems to have been enough to end all discussions of the possibility.


Wow...

http://www.nyrangersblog.com/2012-artic ... trick.html


Terrible move by the owners concidering the money went ot charity "victims of hurrican sandy" Gary should of allowed it, then match the money the players gave to the victims.


What the ****? There needs to be outrage.


Outrage by who? Lot of apathy out there right now. The NHL lockout is very back burner right now.
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Re: Lockout

Postby sj? on Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:07 pm

Image
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Re: Lockout

Postby Bioshock on Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:44 pm

offsides wrote:
Godric wrote:
no name wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
A source directly associated with NBC Sports has informed me that the NHL specifically requested to NBC that they not broadcast Operation Hat Trick. While it's not definite that NBC would have gone through with the broadcast, the NHL's intervention seems to have been enough to end all discussions of the possibility.


Wow...

http://www.nyrangersblog.com/2012-artic ... trick.html


Terrible move by the owners concidering the money went ot charity "victims of hurrican sandy" Gary should of allowed it, then match the money the players gave to the victims.


What the ****? There needs to be outrage.


Outrage by who? Lot of apathy out there right now. The NHL lockout is very back burner right now.


Just cancel the season.
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Re: Lockout

Postby no name on Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:53 pm

Fehr\NHLPA is willing to lose a season to get a deal that gives the players the upper hand...

Bettman\owners are willing to lose a season to get a deal they want that crushes the players...

This thing can last 2 years, i am a hugh hockey fan love the sport and even i am at the point of not caring anymore.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Bioshock on Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:34 pm

John Buccigross ‏@Buccigross

NHL player told me NHL team front office person told him, 48 game schedule beginning in Jan. is already outlined #rockoutwithyourNHLockout

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Re: Lockout

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:38 pm

Bioshock wrote:John Buccigross ‏@Buccigross

NHL player told me NHL team front office person told him, 48 game schedule beginning in Jan. is already outlined #rockoutwithyourNHLockout

N'at


Interesting but non issue. I would guess the league has or has had about 5 different schedules ready to go at various times since September 15th.
I wouldnt think they can put a schedule together for all teams quickly, plus this is providing them with a 48 game schedule now and would allow them
the dates to schedule more concerts in Feb, March and April without worry.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Bioshock on Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:42 pm

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
Bioshock wrote:John Buccigross ‏@Buccigross

NHL player told me NHL team front office person told him, 48 game schedule beginning in Jan. is already outlined #rockoutwithyourNHLockout

N'at


Interesting but non issue. I would guess the league has or has had about 5 different schedules ready to go at various times since September 15th.
I wouldnt think they can put a schedule together for all teams quickly, plus this is providing them with a 48 game schedule now and would allow them
the dates to schedule more concerts in Feb, March and April without worry.


Pretty much my feelings as well. Just passing along something of note from a noteworthy columnist.

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Re: Lockout

Postby MRandall25 on Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:09 am

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
Bioshock wrote:John Buccigross ‏@Buccigross

NHL player told me NHL team front office person told him, 48 game schedule beginning in Jan. is already outlined #rockoutwithyourNHLockout

N'at


Interesting but non issue. I would guess the league has or has had about 5 different schedules ready to go at various times since September 15th.
I wouldnt think they can put a schedule together for all teams quickly, plus this is providing them with a 48 game schedule now and would allow them
the dates to schedule more concerts in Feb, March and April without worry.


Yeah, this is what I immediately thought as well... Doesn't hurt to have some sort of positivity though.
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Re: Lockout

Postby FreeCandy44 on Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:32 am

newarenanow wrote:One reason I'm excited for this to end, I"m sick of seeing FLyers 5, Pens 1 on the front of the LGP homepage.

God it feels like that game happened years ago.
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