LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:00 pm

MRandall25 wrote:Micronesia is the name for the group of islands, which are split into:

-Nauru
-Palau
-Federal States of Micronesia
-Kiribati
-Marshall Islands
-Guam
-Mariana Islands
-Wake Island

Edit: Damnit Gaucho :wink:


Yeah, we need to stop posting simultaneosuly.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Digitalgypsy66 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:23 pm

Gaucho wrote:Palau. Duh.

I know Peleliu, one of the islands in the Palau chain. Marines fought the Japanese there.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby MRandall25 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:25 pm

Digitalgypsy66 wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Palau. Duh.

I know Peleliu, one of the islands in the Palau chain. Marines fought the Japanese there.


The book "The Pacific" (if I'm recalling correctly)?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Digitalgypsy66 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:31 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
Digitalgypsy66 wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Palau. Duh.

I know Peleliu, one of the islands in the Palau chain. Marines fought the Japanese there.


The book "The Pacific" (if I'm recalling correctly)?

Yes, but a better read is "With the Old Breed" by E.B. Sledge. Sledge is one of the characters in "The Pacific."
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby MRandall25 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:34 pm

Digitalgypsy66 wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
Digitalgypsy66 wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Palau. Duh.

I know Peleliu, one of the islands in the Palau chain. Marines fought the Japanese there.


The book "The Pacific" (if I'm recalling correctly)?

Yes, but a better read is "With the Old Breed" by E.B. Sledge. Sledge is one of the characters in "The Pacific."


That must've been what I was thinking of... been a few years.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:14 pm

Thought "The Pacific" was much more hit-and-miss than "Band Of Brothers". But the highs - specifically the final two episodes - were as intense and powerful as anything I've ever seen on television.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Digitalgypsy66 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:48 pm

tifosi77 wrote:Thought "The Pacific" was much more hit-and-miss than "Band Of Brothers". But the highs - specifically the final two episodes - were as intense and powerful as anything I've ever seen on television.

Agreed. The stories of Sledge, Leckie, and Basilone were so diverse, it was hard to put together a cogent story. Speilberg, Hanks, and the other producers wanted to add a naval aviator's Battle of Midway story to the series, but it was too costly. His story is in the book, however.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Rylan on Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:16 am

Shyster wrote:
Sarcastic wrote:
Rylan wrote:Leave Israel and Palestine to figure out their own issues. Other nations trying to force a nation into giving up land to form another independent state is major over-stepping IMO.

Palestine will finally get recognized this Thursday. I don't understand why Israel (and it's lap puppy, the US) are so against it, as it merely means that it will be taken a bit more seriously. OK, I get it. Israel is scared Pal. will be able to take Israeli leaders to Hague and sue their pants off (and Israel will just ignore it all like it has the 130+ UN resolutions against it), but my point is that instead of making nice with the Palestinians, Israel instead goes on a vicious attack and threatens that this means they'll never get their land now. It's crazy stuff. Isreal is doing the opposite of what I'd be doing. I'm just saying.

I share your confusion. Any remedies or benefits statehood would grant to the Palestinians would run the same way for the Israelis. For example, if the West Bank and Gaza were an independent state, then any rockets flying across the border into Israel would not be acts of “resistance” or “opposing the occupation” or anything like that, they would be casus belli justifying international sanctions or even an Israeli declaration of war. Even the U.N. charter permits member states to defend themselves against aggression from other states. The rockets and terrorism would have to stop, or the Palestinian state would swiftly find itself on the losing end of a perfectly just and legitimate full-blown war.


Technically Palestine will be a nation without borders. They will just be an observer state within the UN. Basically a name change with no benefits if I understood everything correctly.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Sarcastic on Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:18 am

Rylan wrote:Technically Palestine will be a nation without borders. They will just be an observer state within the UN. Basically a name change with no benefits if I understood everything correctly.


Yes, for now. But. This is taken from today's newspaper in Israel.

Why does Israel oppose the measure?

Jerusalem's main concern is that the General Assembly's decision will enable the Palestinians to challenge Israel, both diplomatically and legally, in the international arena. For example, Israel is concerned that the Palestinians will pursue legal action at The Hague against Israeli officials involved in settlement construction or against Israeli army officers serving in the West Bank. In addition, the Palestinian bid is likely to increase pressure on Israel to end settlement construction and to encourage boycotts of Israeli goods sold on the international market.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:21 am

Palestine has a little more leverage now. Now they only have to make up their minds whether it's the Hamas or Abbas who represents them.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Rylan on Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:34 am

How so Gaucho? I don't really grasp some things about the UN. But as far as I knew, the UN can not recognize a nation it had to come from the Security Counsel or what have you?

Also I like the move by Germany to abstain from voting, at least last I had read :fist:
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:41 am

Rylan wrote:How so Gaucho? I don't really grasp some things about the UN. But as far as I knew, the UN can not recognize a nation it had to come from the Security Counsel or what have you?

Also I like the move by Germany to abstain from voting, at least last I had read :fist:


See Sarcastic's post. I'd say it's comparable to the difference between being an illegal or a citizen. Roughly.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Rylan on Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:48 am

I don't think any international law or war crimes would be done at the UN because the crimes would be capable of being challenged in either Israel or Palestine.

And for the record, I still don't understand why Palestine HAS to be a nation. I am not even pro-Israel, but it doesn't make sense to me that a group of people MUST have their own nation and other nations are ok with telling them they have to give up land/resources.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby GaryRissling on Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:31 am

Rylan wrote:I don't think any international law or war crimes would be done at the UN because the crimes would be capable of being challenged in either Israel or Palestine.

And for the record, I still don't understand why Palestine HAS to be a nation. I am not even pro-Israel, but it doesn't make sense to me that a group of people MUST have their own nation and other nations are ok with telling them they have to give up land/resources.


It doesn't have to be. In fact, it would be much better IMO if we supported a non-sectarian democracy in Israel that recognized the equality of man; but that is never discussed. Segregation is the preferred solution. I don't for the life of me understand unconditionally supporting any racially/sectarian-based geo-political ideology is in keeping with what we believe as a nation.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Factorial on Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:44 am

GaryRissling wrote:
Rylan wrote:I don't think any international law or war crimes would be done at the UN because the crimes would be capable of being challenged in either Israel or Palestine.

And for the record, I still don't understand why Palestine HAS to be a nation. I am not even pro-Israel, but it doesn't make sense to me that a group of people MUST have their own nation and other nations are ok with telling them they have to give up land/resources.


It doesn't have to be. In fact, it would be much better IMO if we supported a non-sectarian democracy in Israel that recognized the equality of man; but that is never discussed. Segregation is the preferred solution. I don't for the life of me understand unconditionally supporting any racially/sectarian-based geo-political ideology is in keeping with what we believe as a nation.


It's apartheid..... :thumbdown:
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:58 am

Rylan wrote:And for the record, I still don't understand why Palestine HAS to be a nation.

I think part of the intransigence of the current situation is that many Palestinians have that exact same thought about Jews.... or more rather why Jews HAVE to have a nation right smack in the middle of where they were living (stateless) for centuries.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby GaryRissling on Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:20 am

tifosi77 wrote:
Rylan wrote:And for the record, I still don't understand why Palestine HAS to be a nation.

I think part of the intransigence of the current situation is that many Palestinians have that exact same thought about Jews.... or more rather why Jews HAVE to have a nation right smack in the middle of where they were living (stateless) for centuries.


It should also be noted that the concept of the nation-state is a fairly modern development (mid-17th c); and most parts of the world still hold tribal/regional allegiances in much greater esteem than their nation. One only need look at Cataluña's vote to secede from Spain this week as an example of this. I say this because IMO the ME and Africa in particular have really not taken well to this concept that crosses tribal lines in a fairly arbitrary manner from their perspective. And this is under the best of circumstances, which the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is decidedly not.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Sarcastic on Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:26 am

5 million Palestinian refugees were created by the creation of Israel. People who were physically displaced from their homes. That figure is from our State Department.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Kaizer on Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:29 am

ExPatriatePen wrote:It's not a stretch to believe that the video survailence from the drones (which would have shown the RPG's and other heavy assualt weapons) would have been part of that material.


its not a slam dunk to assume video telemetry recordings from the Drones were in any politicians' hands even days after the attack. they arent closed circuit, theyre recorded on tape and would have to be delivered specifically to anyone who wanted to see them by hand / mail.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:49 am

The chances of Catalunya - which is mostly autonomous anyway - seceding from Spain are slim to none, actually. It's mostly just posturing and frustration about allegedly having to bail out the other, less properous regions (same happens in Belgium, the UK, Germany...). What they fail to mention, of course, is that Catalunya is also the region with by far the highest per capita debts in all of Spain. So they want to apply a little pressure on the Spanish government.

Yes, they are proud Catalunyans, but most of them are proud Spaniards, too.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby DelPen on Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:49 am

http://news.yahoo.com/congress-looks-do ... itics.html

Talks about getting rid of the dollar bill, which is fne. But while we are at it institute a tax on rounding up all sales transactions to nickel, maybe even a dime. It costs 2 centes to make a penny and 11 cents to make a nickel. So get rid of oth of them. If it normally costs $5.23 theres a federal sales tax of 2-7 cents. that would probably raise billions a year if every transaction is essentiially going to be taxed.

Only issue with getting rid of the nickel is the quarter would need to go as well and then we would have just dimes, half dollars and dollar coins. And all pricing needs to be done in .05 or .10 increments. Most people I think would be willing to accept this tax since you will not notice it day-to-day and it gets rid of pennies.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby GaryRissling on Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:14 pm

Gaucho wrote:The chances of Catalunya - which is mostly autonomous anyway - seceding from Spain are slim to none, actually. It's mostly just posturing and frustration about allegedly having to bail out the other, less properous regions (same happens in Belgium, the UK, Germany...). What they fail to mention, of course, is that Catalunya is also the region with by far the highest per capita debts in all of Spain. So they want to apply a little pressure on the Spanish government.

Yes, they are proud Catalunyans, but most of them are proud Spaniards, too.


I agree that actual secession is highly unlikely, but while I haven't been to the region since the early 2000's, even at that time, you'd be hard pressed to find much love for Madrid, or Spanish flags for that matter. Franco's regime was not so long ago. Heck it only ended around the last time the Flyers won the cup.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:20 pm

GaryRissling wrote:
Gaucho wrote:The chances of Catalunya - which is mostly autonomous anyway - seceding from Spain are slim to none, actually. It's mostly just posturing and frustration about allegedly having to bail out the other, less properous regions (same happens in Belgium, the UK, Germany...). What they fail to mention, of course, is that Catalunya is also the region with by far the highest per capita debts in all of Spain. So they want to apply a little pressure on the Spanish government.

Yes, they are proud Catalunyans, but most of them are proud Spaniards, too.


I agree that actual secession is highly unlikely, but while I haven't been to the region since the early 2000's, even at that time, you'd be hard pressed to find much love for Madrid, or Spanish flags for that matter. Franco's regime was not so long ago. Heck it only ended around the last time the Flyers won the cup.


Yeah, it's definitely true that they view themselves as Catalunyans first and foremost.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:43 pm

DelPen wrote:http://news.yahoo.com/congress-looks-doing-away-1-bill-083418974--politics.html

Talks about getting rid of the dollar bill, which is fne. But while we are at it institute a tax on rounding up all sales transactions to nickel, maybe even a dime. It costs 2 centes to make a penny and 11 cents to make a nickel. So get rid of oth of them. If it normally costs $5.23 theres a federal sales tax of 2-7 cents. that would probably raise billions a year if every transaction is essentiially going to be taxed.

Only issue with getting rid of the nickel is the quarter would need to go as well and then we would have just dimes, half dollars and dollar coins. And all pricing needs to be done in .05 or .10 increments. Most people I think would be willing to accept this tax since you will not notice it day-to-day and it gets rid of pennies.


There's way to much paper and physical coin in the realm right now anyway, hell, tell me the last time you (or anyone else you know) paid their mortgage, car payment or any other purchase over $100 in cash?

And you haven't seen anything yet, SQUARE is just the begining. I'm confident that in a few short years you'll be waving your cell phone over the scanner at your local grocery store, starbucks, even the consessons are at CEC.

(Although I still support the decommisioning from a purely practical standpoint)
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Sarcastic on Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:49 pm

I'm going to return to what's going on in Israel because I am pretty worried with what just happened in past week's elections. Netanyahu's party lost some very important moderates he was close to and with whom he shared common ideas. Elected in their place were a few extreme right-wing politicians, openly racist (that isn't coming from me, but from Israeli media reports), who are opposed to any compromise with the Palestinians or the West, for that matter.

These are some links to read. Again, if an article won't load in full, put haaretz and article name into google and first result will load the complete article. I like Haaretz because it is a left-leaning newspaper that isn't just a mouthpiece for that administration.

Likud Beiteinu is headed for a showdown with the world
http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/strenger-than-fiction/likud-beitenu-is-headed-for-a-showdown-with-the-world.premium-1.480946

All commentators agree that this week’s Likud primaries marked a watershed event. Anti-liberal forces have gained considerable power, with Danny Danon, Zeev Elkin, Tzipi Hotovely and Yariv Levin climbing up the ranks, and Moshe Feiglin, an extreme right-winger who has been Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s nightmare for years, outflanks them. The Likud ministers who fended off the worst excesses of past anti-liberal legislation, Benny Begin, Dan Meridor and Michael Eitan will not be in the next Knesset.

The Likud has always been torn between its right wing ideology and a basic belief in the principles of Liberal Democracy. This conflict has now come to an end. It is now an extreme right-wing party with strong racist undertones. The majority of its MKs are in favor of Israel’s annexing the West Bank; but unlike Speaker of the Knesset Rubi Rivlin they wouldn’t dream of giving Palestinians political rights. They are even delegitimizing Israel’s serving Arab MKs, and want to see Israel as an ethnically unitary state.

Likud primary postmortem: More headache for Netanyahu
http://www.haaretz.com/news/israeli-elections-2013/israel-election-insider/likud-primary-postmortem-more-headache-for-netanyahu.premium-1.480882

4. Feiglin in London – Moshe Feiglin, leader of the far-right "Jewish leadership" faction in the part, will be anything other than a backbencher in the next Knesset. For Netanyahu, who cannot even bear to mention his name, this will be a hard pill to swallow. The fact remains that the man who was jailed for anti-Arab incitement not only clinched the fourteenth spot on the Likud list but, controlling thousands of members, he is by all accounts one of the party's kingmakers.

His election will have sent shudders down the spines of British-Jewish leaders last night. Feiglin is on the list of foreign figures barred from entering Britain due to the fear that his presence would, according to a former Home Secretary Jacqui Smith, "foment or justify terrorist violence in furtherance of particular beliefs; seek to provoke others to terrorist acts; foment other serious criminal activity or seek to provoke others to serious criminal acts and foster hatred which might lead to inter-community violence in the UK." Now he is a member of parliament for Israel's ruling party.

Has Likud gone too far right for Netanyahu?
http://www.haaretz.com/news/israeli-elections-2013/israel-election-insider/has-likud-gone-too-far-right-for-netanyahu.premium-1.480755

The new Likud – more rightist than ever – will allow the PM little flexibility. He is probably the most liberal and moderate figure to remain on the list.
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