Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Letang Is The Truth on Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:40 am

lol
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Troy Loney on Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:45 am

When confronted on twitter about his incessant negativity, DK stated that he would support the Pirates if they made a "good" move. What a cop out.

They should package Karstens and Tony Sanchez for Matt Wieters, that's a good move right?
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Letang Is The Truth on Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:48 am

moskos for wieters
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Troy Loney on Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:54 am

I think DK has nightmares about the 2007 draft.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Letang Is The Truth on Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:57 am

i do
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Troy Loney on Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:37 am

They'd better tender Karstens. It might be a slight overpay because of injury concerns, but this screams of the Matt Capps situation a couple of years ago. Unless they have designs to bring in a legit pitcher to slot with Wandy and Burnett, they'll need Karstens. I'll be frustrated if they show Karstens the door and bring in some Octavio Dotelesque veteran stop gap to fill the backend of the rotation.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Rylan on Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:39 am

If the Pirates don't tender Karstens I would be upset. He is a solid pitcher, that even if/when the young arms finally break through he would still be an extremely valuable asset in the rotation. If they let him go, I could see him turning into a pitcher they would regret losing.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Troy Loney on Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:48 am

I feel like Karstens is like Arroyo. If they guy can hang around the big leagues with inferior stuff for this long, he'll be an asset because of longevity and consistency. A healthy Karstens is an asset and should be kept for sure.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby beerman on Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:49 am

Troy Loney wrote:They'd better tender Karstens. It might be a slight overpay because of injury concerns, but this screams of the Matt Capps situation a couple of years ago. Unless they have designs to bring in a legit pitcher to slot with Wandy and Burnett, they'll need Karstens. I'll be frustrated if they show Karstens the door and bring in some Octavio Dotelesque veteran stop gap to fill the backend of the rotation.


Yeah, MLB trade rumors has his arbitration predicted at $3.8M, they're usually pretty accurate on those, so while like you said it's a slight overpay I still can't think of a reason not to do it. They won't be able to replace Karstens for only $4M on the open market and they don't have in house candidates who can offer his production either.

Even if they do have plans for a legit starter I still think Karstens would make sense to keep. AJ, Wandy, FA, JMac, Karstens with McPherson/Locke as the first callup or long man until Cole might be ready mid year.. If Karstens does decent and Cole is ready or one of McPherson/Locke are beating the door down they could probably get something out of Karstens via trade since his salary is low.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Rylan on Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:52 am

It never seems to hurt to have plenty of arms.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby ulf on Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:09 am

I'd be very upset if they didn't attempt to bring karstens back
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby canaan on Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:10 am

im cautiously optimistic about R-Mart. i dont know what else the organization couldve done, sans some off the wall trade that never happens.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby ulf on Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:11 am

canaan wrote:im cautiously optimistic about R-Mart. i dont know what else the organization couldve done, sans some off the wall trade that never happens.

I would have rather had Napoli. But I haven't looked too much into his defensive numbers, so if he would have been barajas 2.0 behind the dish, then I'm fine with it.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Troy Loney on Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:16 am

ulf wrote:
canaan wrote:im cautiously optimistic about R-Mart. i dont know what else the organization couldve done, sans some off the wall trade that never happens.

I would have rather had Napoli. But I haven't looked too much into his defensive numbers, so if he would have been barajas 2.0 behind the dish, then I'm fine with it.


Napoli only hit 227 last year...he's definitely a better hitter than Martin, but your also going to end up paying him for his 2011 numbers which were an anamoly.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby canaan on Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:18 am

ulf wrote:
canaan wrote:im cautiously optimistic about R-Mart. i dont know what else the organization couldve done, sans some off the wall trade that never happens.

I would have rather had Napoli. But I haven't looked too much into his defensive numbers, so if he would have been barajas 2.0 behind the dish, then I'm fine with it.

look on the bright side, if we brought in napoli and hes a barajas redux, we'd hear a whole season of "crapoli" comments.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby columbia on Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:21 am

Napoli's in SQ Hill makes a decent pie.

/csb
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby ulf on Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:31 am

Very good point. I think rocco would have worn out crapoli by May.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby beerman on Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:35 am

May is being pretty generous
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Defence21 on Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:50 am

Mr. Colby wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
FreeCandy44 wrote:If he can actually throw someone out stealing and be sound defensively, ill be happy half happy.


I dont think he can. Plus he cant hit. This looks like a case of the Pirates just spending to spend.

People might look at this as a good move because they are spending, but I just cant get excited about a catcher who is on the decline.


Haha this is just unreal.

Pirates don't spend - Fans' response: "This is ridiculous, they should have spent more!"

Pirates spend - Fans' response: "This is ridiculous, they're just spending to spend!"

What gives?

What gives? Are you serious?

When people say they want the Pirates to increase the payroll and open the pocketbooks, they say so assuming it's understood that the money should be spent on players who deserve it and can improve the team. No one wants to see the Pirates spend money just to spend money. Money doesn't win games. Good players do. But good players earn good money. So, therefore, to have a better chance at winning, the Pirates need to spend some money on good players -- not declining players who are no better than the ones they have.

That $17 million certainly could be put to much better use than a catcher batting .211 with average/good defensive skills.

If Huntington would stop wasting cash on rejects and has-beens, he'd actually have some money to spend on legitimately helpful players -- and THAT is what fans want to see.

It's not a hard concept to understand.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby ulf on Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:54 am

Defence21 wrote:
Mr. Colby wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
FreeCandy44 wrote:If he can actually throw someone out stealing and be sound defensively, ill be happy half happy.


I dont think he can. Plus he cant hit. This looks like a case of the Pirates just spending to spend.

People might look at this as a good move because they are spending, but I just cant get excited about a catcher who is on the decline.


Haha this is just unreal.

Pirates don't spend - Fans' response: "This is ridiculous, they should have spent more!"

Pirates spend - Fans' response: "This is ridiculous, they're just spending to spend!"

What gives?

What gives? Are you serious?

When people say they want the Pirates to increase the payroll and open the pocketbooks, they say so assuming it's understood that the money should be spent on players who deserve it and can improve the team. No one wants to see the Pirates spend money just to spend money. Money doesn't win games. Good players do. But good players earn good money. So, therefore, to have a better chance at winning, the Pirates need to spend some money on good players -- not declining players who are no better than the ones they have.

That $17 million certainly could be put to much better use than a catcher batting .211 with average/good defensive skills.

If Huntington would stop wasting cash on rejects and has-beens, he'd actually have some money to spend on legitimately helpful players -- and THAT is what fans want to see.

It's not a hard concept to understand.

We got the best player available at our position of greatest need. Obviously the market isn't great, but that's why we didn't break the bank. I find it hard to complain about this move. What would you have rather done? Watch McKenry and Barajas again? Bring Sanchez up? He's only played a few months in AAA and hit, I think, .220.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Defence21 on Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:57 am

Troy Loney wrote:When confronted on twitter about his incessant negativity, DK stated that he would support the Pirates if they made a "good" move. What a cop out.

They should package Karstens and Tony Sanchez for Matt Wieters, that's a good move right?

DK's tone has dramatically changed since jumping ship to the Trib. He's fallen into the sensationalist club that Rossi is president of. And, on a similar note, how annoying is Josh Yohe on Facebook/Twitter touting recent news/developments with a Sulia posting, then linking to a story that is a week or two old? That paper is such a joke.

That said, DK has every reason to be negative with regard to the Pirates -- as do all of us. This is a team that constantly gets it wrong. It's almost as if they try to be the laughing stock of professional sports. This Martin signing is comparable to the Rangers signings of Scott Gomez and Wade Reddon. The difference? The Rangers are big spenders and easily could correct their mistakes without worrying about the financial ramifications. The Pirates, on the other hand, are not big spenders and can't correct a mistake of this magnitude without financial ramifications. This signing is just the latest in a long line of idiocy coming from all parties involved with the Pirates. DK needs to stop being so sensational with his acquisitions, but he also shouldn't stop being negative just because fans want him to be positive.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Defence21 on Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:03 am

ulf wrote:
Defence21 wrote:
Mr. Colby wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
FreeCandy44 wrote:If he can actually throw someone out stealing and be sound defensively, ill be happy half happy.


I dont think he can. Plus he cant hit. This looks like a case of the Pirates just spending to spend.

People might look at this as a good move because they are spending, but I just cant get excited about a catcher who is on the decline.


Haha this is just unreal.

Pirates don't spend - Fans' response: "This is ridiculous, they should have spent more!"

Pirates spend - Fans' response: "This is ridiculous, they're just spending to spend!"

What gives?

What gives? Are you serious?
I

When people say they want the Pirates to increase the payroll and open the pocketbooks, they say so assuming it's understood that the money should be spent on players who deserve it and can improve the team. No one wants to see the Pirates spend money just to spend money. Money doesn't win games. Good players do. But good players earn good money. So, therefore, to have a better chance at winning, the Pirates need to spend some money on good players -- not declining players who are no better than the ones they have.

That $17 million certainly could be put to much better use than a catcher batting .211 with average/good defensive skills.

If Huntington would stop wasting cash on rejects and has-beens, he'd actually have some money to spend on legitimately helpful players -- and THAT is what fans want to see.

It's not a hard concept to understand.

We got the best player available at our position of greatest need. Obviously the market isn't great, but that's why we didn't break the bank. I find it hard to complain about this move. What would you have rather done? Watch McKenry and Barajas again? Bring Sanchez up? He's only played a few months in AAA and hit, I think, .220.

I'd rather see the Pirates act like a competent organization and pass on any player who is overpaid to this extreme -- no matter how dire the need is at the position. If the Penguins needed a power play quarterback, would you pay $7 million a season? I highly doubt it, because he's just not worth it. Just because you need a player at a certain position doesn't mean you bend over and pay someone double (or more) what he is worth.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Troy Loney on Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:03 am

When I see a criticism like this, what I think is that you probably have little understanding with regards to the context of player movement in MLB. It's complicated and I wouldn't expect everyone to fully grasp what they're seeing. I expect more from DK, that's why I think his twiter rants are pathetic. I start trying to summarize the context, but I've not the patience to do it.

All I'll say is that the Pirates did well to fill their catching vacancy with a servicable player at $17M.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby ulf on Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:07 am

What's he worth? 6-7 mil most likely? They overpaid a million or so to because we absolutely needed a catcher. I'm not overly excited, because he isn't that great. But I can't criticize the move at all.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby ulf on Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:08 am

Also, good luck getting any 30 year old free agent to come here for market rate.
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