Lockout

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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:08 pm

Agreed.
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Re: Lockout

Postby shmenguin on Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:11 pm

but i guess the debate about the trade isn't whether it's "staal > sutter" or "staal >>>> sutter". it's, do you want to make your roster worse in the immediate, but accumulate long term assets along the way? or do you want to keep your roster as strong as possible with a "win now" mentality and then lose staal for nothing at the end of the year? i lean towards the latter.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:19 pm

Staal's defense was at times suspect last season (maybe because we needed his offense), so Sutter might well be an upgrade in that regard. And as long as Sid and Geno are healthy we'll always have plenty of offense. I'm a big fan of Jordan, but I hesitate to say that we are a "worse" team than before. Different maybe, and the 1st round loss was proof that we need to be different.
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Re: Lockout

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:22 pm

shmenguin wrote:but i guess the debate about the trade isn't whether it's "staal > sutter" or "staal >>>> sutter". it's, do you want to make your roster worse in the immediate, but accumulate long term assets along the way? or do you want to keep your roster as strong as possible with a "win now" mentality and then lose staal for nothing at the end of the year? i lean towards the latter.


Personally I don't think anyone is really debating that either.mMyself and others on the topic seem to agree. The issue is that some disagree with the over evaluation with Sutter and the effects of our depth chart.
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Re: Lockout

Postby shmenguin on Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:23 pm

it feels weird to talk about hockey. i have to stop, or it will get too depressing
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Re: Lockout

Postby meow on Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:28 pm

shmenguin wrote:game 4 against detroit. score is 2-1. enter "the" intagibles.

staal has moments of sheer super humanism. whatever sutter will bring, he won't bring that.

I agree that Staal has superstar moments, but how long are people going to bring up one game (a very big game) that happened 3 years ago?
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:29 pm

shmenguin wrote:it feels weird to talk about hockey. i have to stop, or it will get too depressing


I hear ya.
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Re: Lockout

Postby shmenguin on Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:32 pm

meow wrote:
shmenguin wrote:game 4 against detroit. score is 2-1. enter "the" intagibles.

staal has moments of sheer super humanism. whatever sutter will bring, he won't bring that.

I agree that Staal has superstar moments, but how long are people going to bring up one game (a very big game) that happened 3 years ago?


it's the best example. why bring up anything else?
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Re: Lockout

Postby offsides on Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:46 pm

Even with no hockey and no Staal anymore, he can still fill up pages in any thread on LGP.
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Re: Lockout

Postby penny lane on Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:39 pm

Email Tweet 4m Henrik Lundqvist ‏@HLundqvist30
If the plan is to have meetings between players and owners to solve this mess, maybe it's time to..
Henrik Lundqvist ‏@HLundqvist30
..allow teams that actually are carrying the league finacially to get involved. So far I have not seen any invitations to the meeting room..
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:00 pm

Not sure what he means. Is he telling the Jets to shut up, too?
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Re: Lockout

Postby no name on Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:34 pm

Gaucho wrote:Not sure what he means. Is he telling the Jets to shut up, too?


I think he is saying the profitable teams need to step up the the plate. But again i never can really tell what any of the players are talking about.
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Re: Lockout

Postby MRandall25 on Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:39 pm

I think he's trying to say the teams that want to keep the lockout going are keeping the teams who don't want it out of the loop/out of negotiations.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Mr. Colby on Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:49 pm

no name wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Not sure what he means. Is he telling the Jets to shut up, too?


But again i never can really tell what any of the players are talking about.


Don't worry, they don't know either
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Re: Lockout

Postby ulf on Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:12 pm

going to phoenix december 26-28 for work.. coyotes are supposed to host the kings on the 27th. 100% chance I'd be there if played. Ugh.
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Re: Lockout

Postby no name on Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:20 pm

penny lane wrote:
Email Tweet 4m Henrik Lundqvist ‏@HLundqvist30
If the plan is to have meetings between players and owners to solve this mess, maybe it's time to..
Henrik Lundqvist ‏@HLundqvist30
..allow teams that actually are carrying the league finacially to get involved. So far I have not seen any invitations to the meeting room..



Loose translation: i am an idiot, show me the money. End the lockout so i can get paid.

My swedish is a little rusty, so the translation might not be spot on.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:37 pm

Gaucho wrote:Staal's defense was at times suspect last season (maybe because we needed his offense), so Sutter might well be an upgrade in that regard. And as long as Sid and Geno are healthy we'll always have plenty of offense. I'm a big fan of Jordan, but I hesitate to say that we are a "worse" team than before. Different maybe, and the 1st round loss was proof that we need to be different.


I'd argue that his body of work in the defensive zone last season was pretty mediocre.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:39 pm

meow wrote:
shmenguin wrote:game 4 against detroit. score is 2-1. enter "the" intagibles.

staal has moments of sheer super humanism. whatever sutter will bring, he won't bring that.

I agree that Staal has superstar moments, but how long are people going to bring up one game (a very big game) that happened 3 years ago?


Definitely not the best player of that series. Game 7 against Detroit tied 0-0. Game 7 against Detroit up 1-0.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:51 pm

Trevor Linden's take:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=410579

He faced heavy criticism from owners and players in 2004-05 as the standoff divided the NHLPA and led to the departure of union head Bob Goodenow.

"At that point, (the scrapping of the season) didn't shock me," Linden said. "It was a massive philosophical divide. It was a huge philosophical divide on the economics of the game. ... This isn't."
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Re: Lockout

Postby tfrizz on Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:54 pm

Gaucho wrote:Not sure what he means. Is he telling the Jets to shut up, too?


He's talking about how the lockout is being driven by a small group of teams because Bettman only needs the approval of 8 teams to act. Many of the moderate and profitable teams have either been excluded from or not attended the meetings.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:04 pm

tfrizz wrote:Many of the moderate and profitable teams have either been excluded from or not attended the meetings.


I wasn't aware of that. Excluding profitable teams, huh? Go figure.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Bioshock on Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:09 pm

Gaucho wrote:
tfrizz wrote:Many of the moderate and profitable teams have either been excluded from or not attended the meetings.


I wasn't aware of that. Excluding profitable teams, huh? Go figure.

Yep, it's literally 7 teams holding the league hostage. I say 7 because Phoenix is under NHL control and you know how Bettman has them voting in these CBA negotiations.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:09 pm

They aren't being excluded, they just realize that their opinion isn't going to be heard because the 8 poorest teams have enough say to derail things. The profitable teams would have signed the players last proposal in a second. People foolishly like to talk about the teams not "losing money" with the lockout, but i'm not sure how they can actually believe that. They would undoubtedly be making(or losing less) money with a season going. Just like the players though, they're standing pat on principle, because giving up ground now sets precedent for giving up more ground in future negotiations. The players are stopping the trend that could have been started by the last CBA and the owners are preventing themselves from getting into an agreement in which they give up too much.
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Re: Lockout

Postby opie22002 on Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:29 am

I think it's time for Mario to step in.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Bioshock on Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:17 am

opie22002 wrote:I think it's time for Mario to step in.


Unfortunately, i don't think Mario has much respect in the NHL outside of Pittsburgh. People respect his accomplishments on the ice but remember what happened when he came out against what the Islanders did? Low lives like Garth Snow openly mocked him in public. I can't remember the exact quote and I'm paraphrasing here but i remember someone in the NHL saying, "If Mario wants to change the game so much, how about he shows up to ANY of our meetings."

I don't think Mario should step into this unless he brings Burkle with him. Otherwise, this could be extremely ugly.
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