Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby MRandall25 on Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:18 pm

Isn't Chris Capuano like 45? Feels like he's been around since I could remember.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby ulf on Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:20 pm

a little disappointed karstens was non-tendered.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Mr. Colby on Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:21 pm

Capuano (34) is similar to Karstens, but his salary is 6 million...

Why not just keep Karstens at 3.8 and trade Hanrahan for somebody else. It's frustrating.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby PhantomJB93 on Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:33 pm

Really not liking these moves right now. I was barely alright with Martin but non-tendering Karstens and then trading Hanrahan for Capuano, I can't get on board with that. Better shell out more big bucks on a LEGITIMATE starting pitcher, even if Capuano is acquired, or else I'm gonna jump on the "NH should be fired" bandwagon.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby KennyTheKangaroo on Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:35 pm

having a front end of a rotation of capuano, wandy, and aj burnett just kinda seems like its an age related disaster waiting to happen
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Defence21 on Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:39 pm

Troy Loney wrote:Yuck,

Pirates and Dodgers talking a Hanrahan for Capuano swap, and Karstens to be non tendered to make room for Martin.

Now, these are moves to get irritated about.

Don't know anything about Capuano, but non-tendering Karstens is precisely what I was hoping wouldn't, but expected would happen when Martin signed. So they improve the catching position at a huge increase in price, but sacrifice one of the more reliable (when healthy, albeit) and underrated pitchers on the staff, who likely would have come cheaply, compared to what he is worth.

Adding Martin and his $17 million in a vacuum isn't where my problem is/was -- it's the ramifications that come from paying one player that much money on a low-budget team with many holes/needs.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby ulf on Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:46 pm

i think the karstens move wasn't a money thing. he wasn't going to get more than 4.5 mil...I think they were worried about his injuries. Alas, that is also dumb.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby KennyTheKangaroo on Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:58 pm

Defence21 wrote:Adding Martin and his $17 million in a vacuum isn't where my problem is/was -- it's the ramifications that come from paying one player that much money on a low-budget team with many holes/needs.


Well, that $17 million is going to filling arguably the pirates biggest hole, no?

Plus, it remains to be seen how much the pirates are going to be willing to spend on payroll in 2013. There final 2012 payroll was probably in the 50-60 mills range. Management has plenty of reasons to up the payroll by another $10-20 million. obviously they are clearing some payroll off the books from last year-corriea, bedard, barahahahas, and mcclouth free up over $10 million alone. Karstens is another $4 million or so.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Defence21 on Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:08 pm

KennyTheKangaroo wrote:
Defence21 wrote:Adding Martin and his $17 million in a vacuum isn't where my problem is/was -- it's the ramifications that come from paying one player that much money on a low-budget team with many holes/needs.


Well, that $17 million is going to filling arguably the pirates biggest hole, no?

Plus, it remains to be seen how much the pirates are going to be willing to spend on payroll in 2013. There final 2012 payroll was probably in the 50-60 mills range. Management has plenty of reasons to up the payroll by another $10-20 million. obviously they are clearing some payroll off the books from last year-corriea, bedard, barahahahas, and mcclouth free up over $10 million alone. Karstens is another $4 million or so.

They are filling one of their bigger (possibly the biggest) hole -- but there remain many holes to fill, and giving this much to one player could be hampering them from filling others effectively. All reports are that the Pirates payroll will increase organically, according to Huntington and Nutting, to around $70 million. The question is, is that $70 million in actual salary or what they are paying players? If it's actual salary, they're pretty darn close once they tender who they have and fill in the holes with some cheapies. If it's based on what they are paying players, they have somewhere around $10-$15 million more to play with. Regardless of the situation, I've grown unimpressed with all things Pirates and have lost the little faith I had once I saw the team collapse (following a terrible trade deadline) with little/no ramifications. Nutting may want to win, but I see nothing to indicate he's willing to do what it takes to win -- and that isn't necessarily focused on spending, as Martin's signing indicates he will open his wallet, to an extent.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Mr. Colby on Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:09 pm

I think Karstens was going to be non-tendered regardless of whether Russell Martin signed here. It wasn't about money. But it was about stupidity.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby DudeMan2766 on Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:40 pm

Can't find an article posted online yet but word is Poser to the A's
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby MWB on Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:59 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
Mr. Colby wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
Mr. Colby wrote:Serious question, money aside, who on that Catcher's list would you rather see in a Pirates uniform?

Mauer, McCann, and Molina obviously, but other than that possibly Montero or Ruiz maybe?


Ruiz is suspended for PED's


Wow, I missed that completely.

Now his fluke year last season makes a lot more sense


FWIW it was amphetamines (not really sure what the difference is between those and roids)


The difference is 25 games.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby schreibdog on Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:05 am

Pirates non-tender Karstens and Morton. Then turn around and sign Morton to a one-year $2 million deal. So, at least they're giving him another shot.

Really disappointed about the non-tender of Karstens. They don't have any internal options that will be ready by the start of the season (and we have to fill the #4 and #5 spots now) and no solid UFA is going to come anywhere close to the projected 3.8mill that Karstens would have made. Locke and/or McPherson MIGHT be ready, but you're counting on a rookie with little MLB experience. And if he fails, there's no backup plan until Morton comes back or Cole comes up. I keep trying to come up with a reason to non-tender him, but I can't find one. This move makes no sense to me.

Resop to Oakland for a high A-ball pitcher (Zack Thornton).

Yamaico Navarro to Baltimore for a rookie-ball pitcher (Jhondaniel Medina).
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby ville5 on Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:01 am

Mr. Colby wrote:Serious question, money aside, who on that Catcher's list would you rather see in a Pirates uniform?

Mauer, McCann, and Molina obviously, but other than that possibly Montero or Ruiz maybe?

Doumit
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Bioshock on Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:02 am

schreibdog wrote:Pirates non-tender Karstens and Morton. Then turn around and sign Morton to a one-year $2 million deal. So, at least they're giving him another shot.

Really disappointed about the non-tender of Karstens. They don't have any internal options that will be ready by the start of the season (and we have to fill the #4 and #5 spots now) and no solid UFA is going to come anywhere close to the projected 3.8mill that Karstens would have made. Locke and/or McPherson MIGHT be ready, but you're counting on a rookie with little MLB experience. And if he fails, there's no backup plan until Morton comes back or Cole comes up. I keep trying to come up with a reason to non-tender him, but I can't find one. This move makes no sense to me.

Resop to Oakland for a high A-ball pitcher (Zack Thornton).

Yamaico Navarro to Baltimore for a rookie-ball pitcher (Jhondaniel Medina).


Dude, it's the Pirates. Par for the course as far as I'm concerned.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby ville5 on Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:04 am

Troy Loney wrote:Yuck,

Pirates and Dodgers talking a Hanrahan for Capuano swap, and Karstens to be non tendered to make room for Martin.

Now, these are moves to get irritated about.

If Capuano is the best opie can do for the Hammer, he should be fired on the spot.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby thehockeyguru on Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:53 pm

ville5 wrote:
Troy Loney wrote:Yuck,

Pirates and Dodgers talking a Hanrahan for Capuano swap, and Karstens to be non tendered to make room for Martin.

Now, these are moves to get irritated about.

If Capuano is the best opie can do for the Hammer, he should be fired on the spot.


I agree. Look what the Angels gave up for Hanson.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby ulf on Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:08 pm

Third Eye Blind skyblast 8/31. I'm pumped.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby viva la ben on Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:15 pm

ulf wrote:Third Eye Blind skyblast 8/31. I'm pumped.

Doot doot doot, doot doo doot doo
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby DudeMan2766 on Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:55 pm

viva la ben wrote:
ulf wrote:Third Eye Blind skyblast 8/31. I'm pumped.

Doot doot doot, doot doo doot doo


Baby I want some-thin else....

Im not singing the song. I'd rather have something else
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Rocco on Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:29 pm

ulf wrote:Third Eye Blind skyblast 8/31. I'm pumped.


If this season goes horribly, they may have to dedicate "Jumper" to me.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby ulf on Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:37 pm

i can definitely see some Jumper jokes, come August 31st. prime collapse time of year
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Malkamaniac on Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:25 pm

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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby columbia on Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:27 pm

Why would the Pirates now trade for a catcher?
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Malkamaniac on Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:30 pm

columbia wrote:Why would the Pirates now trade for a catcher?


I figured this was good fodder to pass along to discuss things. More or less, how many believe they WON'T dump salary this off season?
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