2012 LGP College Football Thread

Forum for posts that are not hockey-related.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Re: 2012 LGP College Football Thread

Postby columbia on Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:40 am

thehockeyguru wrote:
columbia wrote:If you'll allow me to put my yinzer hat on:

They're destined for years of 6-7-8 win seasons, so I'd rather see a coach who wants to be there, than an endless string of ladder climbers.


Wannstache?


Sure.
columbia
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 42,434
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:13 am

Re: 2012 LGP College Football Thread

Postby thehockeyguru on Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:10 am

KennyTheKangaroo wrote:Also............

The thing that made that 2010 an extra special failure was that 5 guys on that team ended up getting drafted. Two more guys, DeCicco and Hynoski, went undrafted but ended up being contributors on pretty good teams. So there were 6 or 7 NFL caliber guys on that team and they won 7 stinking regular season games in the big east conference.

Pitt shouldnt expect to be a national championship contender, but its not out of line to expect a team with 6 or 7 NFL guys to win more than 7 games in the big east.


Knowing what you know now, would you have fired Wannstache?
thehockeyguru
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 10,281
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:43 pm
Location: I'm 30 minutes away, I'll be there in 10.

Re: 2012 LGP College Football Thread

Postby cheesesteakwithegg on Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:19 am

thehockeyguru wrote:
KennyTheKangaroo wrote:Also............

The thing that made that 2010 an extra special failure was that 5 guys on that team ended up getting drafted. Two more guys, DeCicco and Hynoski, went undrafted but ended up being contributors on pretty good teams. So there were 6 or 7 NFL caliber guys on that team and they won 7 stinking regular season games in the big east conference.

Pitt shouldnt expect to be a national championship contender, but its not out of line to expect a team with 6 or 7 NFL guys to win more than 7 games in the big east.


Knowing what you know now, would you have fired Wannstache?


I know that this wasn't directed towards me, but I'll answer anyway. In hindsight, no way I would have gotten rid of Wanny. At the time, I was OK with it because Wanny was underachieving with the talent that he had on his teams. Looking back on it, I would have taken 9 wins per year under Wanny, knowing that the program is 100% stable, than having to deal with this coaching carousel year after year.
cheesesteakwithegg
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,351
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:53 am

Re: 2012 LGP College Football Thread

Postby KennyTheKangaroo on Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:34 am

thehockeyguru wrote:
KennyTheKangaroo wrote:Also............

The thing that made that 2010 an extra special failure was that 5 guys on that team ended up getting drafted. Two more guys, DeCicco and Hynoski, went undrafted but ended up being contributors on pretty good teams. So there were 6 or 7 NFL caliber guys on that team and they won 7 stinking regular season games in the big east conference.

Pitt shouldnt expect to be a national championship contender, but its not out of line to expect a team with 6 or 7 NFL guys to win more than 7 games in the big east.


Knowing what you know now, would you have fired Wannstache?


Yes.

Pitt MAY have won a few more games the past two years. Theres no question that the last two recruiting classes would have been healthier/more productive. But wanny's styles werent going to change. He was still going to lose bad games. Tino still would have been a three year starter. Whoever would have replaced tino after this year still would have stunk, just like tino, just like stull. Kenny the kangaroo would still take the chance of firing him.
KennyTheKangaroo
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,263
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:15 am
Location: Under the Skycoaster

Re: 2012 LGP College Football Thread

Postby Stoosh on Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:36 am

I'll echo KTK's sentiments here.

I was a huge fan of Wannstedt. He had his misgivings as a game coach and couldn't develop QBs to save his life but for the most part, he was a very good representative of the program and the school.

But after choking away that game against Cincy in 2009, better things were expected in 2010 - namely a Big East title after coming so close the year before. Like KTK said, the 2010 team was almost-unanimously picked to win the Big East. On paper, that was far and away his best team.

That said, I could at least appreciate the OOC losses. The Utah loss was on the road (very tough place to play) and they were breaking in a new QB. I could get the Miami loss to a point, as they played a bad game and were outclassed athletically. That was also the game when Mason got hurt. I can even get the ND loss as it was on the road. But the last straw for me was the combination of the UConn and WVU losses.

The UConn loss came on the heels of three very convincing wins to start conference play that year. So despite some tough OOC games, the team got the fanbase's hopes up with their first three games of conference play. As KTK mentioned, they were in control of their own destiny against a UConn team that was substandard at best.

Thursday night game. National TV audience. At UConn. The chance to take firm control of the top spot in the conference. The sad thing was, despite the three previous wins, I KNEW when I sat down to watch that game that those four things were key ingredients to a Wannstedt Disaster Cocktail. And I don't know what was worse - the stomach punch of the reality of the loss, or the realization that if Wanny couldn't win a game like that with the talent he had on that team (Tino aside), it was never going to happen under his watch.

The WVU game two weeks later only confirmed that. It wasn't at the game, but it was the first time I ever turned off a Pitt game early since I started following them. The team quit. Whether that was on Wannstedt or perhaps some of the players, I don't know. But there was no way he could possibly explain away the complete lack of effort and interest that team put forth that afternoon. Wanny probably saves his job with a win there and he had to know that, which made their complete lack of preparation even more astounding. When that game ended, I remember saying here and over at PittBlather that it was time for a change. If he couldn't elevate that collection of talent to a conference title/BCS bowl, I lost complete faith that he could ever do it with another group because I don't think he was likely to get a markedly-better group.

I never had a problem with the decision to let him go, though I always felt bad because it was easy to see how much he loved the program. That was made even worse by Pederson's absolute bungling of the entire transition, beginning from the start with his mishandling of the announcement and the spectacle he allowed to be created when Wannstedt met the media surrounded by the players. All that did was fuel suspicions that Pederson had no direction, no control and no sense of a plan.

Those suspicions were later confirmed with the Haywood hire. If you're going to let a guy like Wannstedt go, you have to be fairly certain that the guy you're bringing in is going to produce better results on the field. Haywood was not that guy. He was not even close to being that guy. Haywood was a transparent attempt to go cheap, sold under the guise of instilling more discipline and accountability to a program that had seemingly lost its way under Wannstedt. Two weeks later, he's in jail for beating the mother of his child.

Maybe it's not entirely fair to Pederson to hold him accountable if Chryst leaves. No one could've reasonably foreseen Bielema leaving for another job and with reports of a $6 million buyout in Chryst's contract, Pitt took substantial attempts to protect their interest. But if he goes, the reality is that Pitt would be on it's fourth head coaching search in three years, in large part because Pederson had no cohesive plan from the start of this whole mess.
Stoosh
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,437
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:19 am
Location: Aliquippa, PA

Re: 2012 LGP College Football Thread

Postby slappybrown on Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:09 pm

So Chryst is from Madison; played QB for the Badgers; coached there for 7 years; and he'd be moving to the B10 to make more money with better facilities, more resources and an insane fanbase?

If UW wants him, I'd be stunned if he didn't take the job. Seems like a no-brainer. I wouldn't even blame him frankly. Its actually home for him, unlike Phoenix for Graham.
slappybrown
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,735
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:08 am
Location: Noted Board Henchman

Re: 2012 LGP College Football Thread

Postby newarenanow on Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:20 pm

slappybrown wrote:So Chryst is from Madison; played QB for the Badgers; coached there for 7 years; and he'd be moving to the B10 to make more money with better facilities, more resources and an insane fanbase?

If UW wants him, I'd be stunned if he didn't take the job. Seems like a no-brainer. I wouldn't even blame him frankly. Its actually home for him, unlike Phoenix for Graham.


I feel the same way. Unlike Graham, Chryst actually has VERY strong ties to Wisky. I would not blame him one bit for making the jump.
newarenanow
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 40,582
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:56 pm

Re: 2012 LGP College Football Thread

Postby newarenanow on Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:20 pm

BTW, Chip Brown now reporting FSU is shopping around for a new conference home.
newarenanow
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 40,582
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:56 pm

Re: 2012 LGP College Football Thread

Postby thehockeyguru on Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:26 pm

I agree with you, that Wannstadt had some good teams with good records, but he did underperform a bit. I thought it was a bad move at the time given his name and the brand he was building at Pitt. Sure things could have gotten a bit better, but as we have seen they can also get a lot worse.

If there was a clear cut plan for how the program can get to the next level then by all means make it. But its quite clear that with the hiring of Haywood, there was no plan. IMO you dont wire Wannstadt without a viable option in front of you to take that next step.
thehockeyguru
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 10,281
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:43 pm
Location: I'm 30 minutes away, I'll be there in 10.

Re: 2012 LGP College Football Thread

Postby KennyTheKangaroo on Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:46 pm

what brand was he building at pitt? The same brand he built in chicago and miami (I.e. nice guy but also a bumbler?)
KennyTheKangaroo
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,263
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:15 am
Location: Under the Skycoaster

Re: 2012 LGP College Football Thread

Postby Dickie Dunn on Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:35 pm

slappybrown wrote:So Chryst is from Madison; played QB for the Badgers; coached there for 7 years; and he'd be moving to the B10 to make more money with better facilities, more resources and an insane fanbase?

If UW wants him, I'd be stunned if he didn't take the job. Seems like a no-brainer. I wouldn't even blame him frankly. Its actually home for him, unlike Phoenix for Graham.


http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/51536/ranking-the-big-ten-football-facilities

Wisconsin is building new facilities, but their current facilities are crap.
Dickie Dunn
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,950
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:05 am

Re: 2012 LGP College Football Thread

Postby slappybrown on Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:02 pm

Dickie Dunn wrote:
slappybrown wrote:So Chryst is from Madison; played QB for the Badgers; coached there for 7 years; and he'd be moving to the B10 to make more money with better facilities, more resources and an insane fanbase?

If UW wants him, I'd be stunned if he didn't take the job. Seems like a no-brainer. I wouldn't even blame him frankly. Its actually home for him, unlike Phoenix for Graham.


http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/51536/ranking-the-big-ten-football-facilities

Wisconsin is building new facilities, but their current facilities are crap.

Ah, didn't know that, thanks. I was thinking more about the stadium (on campus 80K+ versus Heinz).
slappybrown
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,735
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:08 am
Location: Noted Board Henchman

Re: 2012 LGP College Football Thread

Postby thehockeyguru on Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:13 pm

KennyTheKangaroo wrote:what brand was he building at pitt? The same brand he built in chicago and miami (I.e. nice guy but also a bumbler?)


College more than the pro's you need to sell the program. He believed in Pitt and he was no doubt a great ambassador for the school. He was able to bring in very good recruiting classes, he just needed to have a better staff to develop those kids.
thehockeyguru
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 10,281
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:43 pm
Location: I'm 30 minutes away, I'll be there in 10.

Re: 2012 LGP College Football Thread

Postby Dickie Dunn on Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:26 pm

slappybrown wrote:
Dickie Dunn wrote:
slappybrown wrote:So Chryst is from Madison; played QB for the Badgers; coached there for 7 years; and he'd be moving to the B10 to make more money with better facilities, more resources and an insane fanbase?

If UW wants him, I'd be stunned if he didn't take the job. Seems like a no-brainer. I wouldn't even blame him frankly. Its actually home for him, unlike Phoenix for Graham.


http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/51536/ranking-the-big-ten-football-facilities

Wisconsin is building new facilities, but their current facilities are crap.

Ah, didn't know that, thanks. I was thinking more about the stadium (on campus 80K+ versus Heinz).


I didn't know that either, but your comment caused me to a do a little search because despite the issues with Pitt's facilities (sharing Heinz Field with the Steelers, smaller capacity) I've generally thought of Pitt as having good facilities. The UPMC complex is pretty awesome and better than what most college football teams can offer their players for training/practice facilities. Getting to see NFL players on a daily basis seems like an added bonus.

I've also seen many Wisconsin fans complaining about the university being cheap when it comes to paying coaches. Bielema was making $2,500,000 a year at UW, but only $400,000 of that was coming from the school. The rest was out of booster's pockets and dependent on annual revenue from the program (which is about as guaranteed as you can get). I don't know if there is any legitimacy to their complaints, or if every college football fan in this country is predisposed to incessant whining regardless of the facts.
Dickie Dunn
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,950
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:05 am

Re: 2012 LGP College Football Thread

Postby slappybrown on Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:27 pm

Dickie Dunn wrote:
slappybrown wrote:
Dickie Dunn wrote:
slappybrown wrote:So Chryst is from Madison; played QB for the Badgers; coached there for 7 years; and he'd be moving to the B10 to make more money with better facilities, more resources and an insane fanbase?

If UW wants him, I'd be stunned if he didn't take the job. Seems like a no-brainer. I wouldn't even blame him frankly. Its actually home for him, unlike Phoenix for Graham.


http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/51536/ranking-the-big-ten-football-facilities

Wisconsin is building new facilities, but their current facilities are crap.

Ah, didn't know that, thanks. I was thinking more about the stadium (on campus 80K+ versus Heinz).


I didn't know that either, but your comment caused me to a do a little search because despite the issues with Pitt's facilities (sharing Heinz Field with the Steelers, smaller capacity) I've generally thought of Pitt as having good facilities. The UPMC complex is pretty awesome and better than what most college football teams can offer their players for training/practice facilities. Getting to see NFL players on a daily basis seems like an added bonus.

I've also seen many Wisconsin fans complaining about the university being cheap when it comes to paying coaches. Bielema was making $2,500,000 a year at UW, but only $400,000 of that was coming from the school. The rest was out of booster's pockets and dependent on annual revenue from the program (which is about as guaranteed as you can get). I don't know if there is any legitimacy to their complaints, or if every college football fan in this country is predisposed to incessant whining regardless of the facts.

I agree the South Side facility is top notch, but at the risk of opening the Pitt on-campus v. pro facility debate, I think the ideal in big-time CFB is a large on-campus stadium with modern athletic center appended.
slappybrown
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,735
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:08 am
Location: Noted Board Henchman

Re: 2012 LGP College Football Thread

Postby Rocco on Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:12 pm

http://host.madison.com/sports/college/ ... KI.twitter

Bielema flew back to Madison to address his players. A nice move, though Todd Graham made me believe such an act was impossible.
Rocco
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 32,802
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:34 am
Location: Manor Farm

Re: 2012 LGP College Football Thread

Postby newarenanow on Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:06 pm

Chryst addressed the team today and was noncommittal. Just said he is going to be honest and upfront, and that as of today, he hasn't been contacted.

To me, if he is offered the job, he'd take it, but word out of Wisky is that Chryst is not a top candidate right now.
newarenanow
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 40,582
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:56 pm

Re: 2012 LGP College Football Thread

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:49 pm

True, a lot of speculation about Chryst yet this is Wisconsin; a real contender. If Arkansas was looking at Bielema I can't imagine Wisconsin, a team of similar if not higher caliber, thinking that their first choice would be a 1st year head coach that hasn't proven much, no matter the school. Is Chryst really that good, in your eyes? I ask because I dont know much about him.

However, there are a lot of openings this year if I'm not mistaken and it may make competition among schools looking to fill vacancies pretty tough.
DontToewsMeBro
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,065
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:31 pm

Re: 2012 LGP College Football Thread

Postby MRandall25 on Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:59 pm

I disagree. I don't think Wisky will be a contender at all this coming year. Nebraska will still have Taylor Martinez, Ohio State will still have most of their offense, Penn State is still good (though unable to contend), and Devin Gardner still has another year at Michigan (if everyone stays where they are).

Wisky is losing Montee Ball, who is arguably their entire offense. Even with him, they still went 4-4 in B1G play and 8-5 overall. They're not contenders at all. They're a middle-of-the-pack team who got lucky this year that the 2 teams above them in the division standings were bowl ineligible.
MRandall25
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,542
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:11 pm
Location: BOBROVSKY!!!

Re: 2012 LGP College Football Thread

Postby newarenanow on Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:23 pm

http://espn.go.com/college-football/sto ... advantages

Brett McMurphy saying Big 10 is still eyeing up further expansion and the candidates could be UNC, UVA and/or GT.

Could set off further chain of events. ACC days are numbered IMO. And the only option for Pitt is the Big XII.
newarenanow
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 40,582
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:56 pm

Re: 2012 LGP College Football Thread

Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:27 pm

Image
Sam's Drunk Dog
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,125
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:31 pm
Location: Behind Enemy Lines

Re: 2012 LGP College Football Thread

Postby Tomas on Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:48 pm

slappybrown wrote:
Dickie Dunn wrote:
slappybrown wrote:
Dickie Dunn wrote:
slappybrown wrote:So Chryst is from Madison; played QB for the Badgers; coached there for 7 years; and he'd be moving to the B10 to make more money with better facilities, more resources and an insane fanbase?

If UW wants him, I'd be stunned if he didn't take the job. Seems like a no-brainer. I wouldn't even blame him frankly. Its actually home for him, unlike Phoenix for Graham.


http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/51536/ranking-the-big-ten-football-facilities

Wisconsin is building new facilities, but their current facilities are crap.

Ah, didn't know that, thanks. I was thinking more about the stadium (on campus 80K+ versus Heinz).


I didn't know that either, but your comment caused me to a do a little search because despite the issues with Pitt's facilities (sharing Heinz Field with the Steelers, smaller capacity) I've generally thought of Pitt as having good facilities. The UPMC complex is pretty awesome and better than what most college football teams can offer their players for training/practice facilities. Getting to see NFL players on a daily basis seems like an added bonus.

I've also seen many Wisconsin fans complaining about the university being cheap when it comes to paying coaches. Bielema was making $2,500,000 a year at UW, but only $400,000 of that was coming from the school.
The rest was out of booster's pockets and dependent on annual revenue from the program (which is about as guaranteed as you can get). I don't know if there is any legitimacy to their complaints, or if every college football fan in this country is predisposed to incessant whining regardless of the facts.

I agree the South Side facility is top notch, but at the risk of opening the Pitt on-campus v. pro facility debate, I think the ideal in big-time CFB is a large on-campus stadium with modern athletic center appended.


I think it's quite common for the coaches to be paid primarily from donors funds. For example, Bobby Petrino was paid "only" $750,000 out of "public and private" funds of the University of Arkansas. The rest of his multi-million dollar salary was paid by "The Razorback Foundation, Inc.", and the coach actually had to enter a separate employment contract with the Foundation. That compensation ($1.95M in 2007) was "in various forms including, but not limited to, compensation for personal speaking engagements, serving as the host of radio and television sports shows, and private funds donated to the University."

Here is actually 100+ page personnel file for BP - http://localtvkfsm.files.wordpress.com/ ... l-file.pdf

BTW this used to be his house: http://www.fayettevilleflyer.com/2012/0 ... -for-sale/ (a perfect example of enterpreneurial baroque, IMO)
Tomas
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,167
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:21 am

Re: 2012 LGP College Football Thread

Postby Rocco on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:07 am

newarenanow wrote:http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8718339/16-team-big-ten-michigan-state-spartans-ad-mark-hollis-sees-advantages

Brett McMurphy saying Big 10 is still eyeing up further expansion and the candidates could be UNC, UVA and/or GT.

Could set off further chain of events. ACC days are numbered IMO. And the only option for Pitt is the Big XII.


If conferences go to 16 teams, there won't be a Big 12. The Pac 12 will get Texas, OU, Okie State and one of Texas Tech and Baylor.
Rocco
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 32,802
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:34 am
Location: Manor Farm

Re: 2012 LGP College Football Thread

Postby newarenanow on Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:15 am

Rocco wrote:
newarenanow wrote:http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8718339/16-team-big-ten-michigan-state-spartans-ad-mark-hollis-sees-advantages

Brett McMurphy saying Big 10 is still eyeing up further expansion and the candidates could be UNC, UVA and/or GT.

Could set off further chain of events. ACC days are numbered IMO. And the only option for Pitt is the Big XII.


If conferences go to 16 teams, there won't be a Big 12. The Pac 12 will get Texas, OU, Okie State and one of Texas Tech and Baylor.


Not all conferences will go to 16. Just the Big 10 and SEC. Possibly the Big XII.
newarenanow
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 40,582
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:56 pm

Re: 2012 LGP College Football Thread

Postby Dickie Dunn on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:43 pm

Two telling quotes from Barry Alvarez's press conference today when directly asked about Paul Chryst for the head coaching vacancy:

"I asked some very close friends of mine to help Paul Chryst get his job. I think he should be committed to Pitt."


"I think Paul has already come out and say he's committed to Pitt, and he should be committed to Pitt."


So........ is the sky done falling?
Dickie Dunn
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,950
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:05 am

PreviousNext

Return to NHR

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests

e-mail