Lockout

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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:48 pm

I don't get it.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Defence21 on Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:51 pm

champeen wrote:I know that for me personally this lockout has changed my perception of the players for the worse and dulled my enthusiasm for NHL hockey. HOWEVER, if somehow a deal gets done on the heels of yesterday's meeting- a meeting in which all seem to agree Crosby and Burkle were the 'voices of reason' - it will make my returning to hockey, specifically as a Pens fan, much smoother. I have been extremely worried about coming out of this with an actual dislike for our own players, something that I felt could potentially turn me away from the game and team I love.

I don't begrudge you for coming out of this with a negative view of the players, as they're at fault in this mess, too. But, to me, it's the owners who look like idiots and have lost my respect. They're expecting the players, who made major sacrifices during the last lockout, to once again make major sacrifices this time around. Everyone's at fault in this mess, but last time around, I was firmly in the owners' court, thinking a salary cap system was needed. This time around, I'm firmly in the players' court, as I feel the owners need to police themselves and stop blaming the players for the big contracts that are causing them to lose money.
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Re: Lockout

Postby shmenguin on Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:53 pm

this lockout has nothing to do with my enjoyment of the NHL. everyone involved with the penguins could have presented themselves as ruthless a-holes during negotiations. i wouldn't care once the season started.
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Re: Lockout

Postby sil on Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:58 pm

shmenguin wrote:this lockout has nothing to do with my enjoyment of the NHL. everyone involved with the penguins could have presented themselves as ruthless a-holes during negotiations. i wouldn't care once the season started.


:thumb:
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Re: Lockout

Postby no name on Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:01 pm

Defence21 wrote:
champeen wrote:I know that for me personally this lockout has changed my perception of the players for the worse and dulled my enthusiasm for NHL hockey. HOWEVER, if somehow a deal gets done on the heels of yesterday's meeting- a meeting in which all seem to agree Crosby and Burkle were the 'voices of reason' - it will make my returning to hockey, specifically as a Pens fan, much smoother. I have been extremely worried about coming out of this with an actual dislike for our own players, something that I felt could potentially turn me away from the game and team I love.

I don't begrudge you for coming out of this with a negative view of the players, as they're at fault in this mess, too. But, to me, it's the owners who look like idiots and have lost my respect. They're expecting the players, who made major sacrifices during the last lockout, to once again make major sacrifices this time around. Everyone's at fault in this mess, but last time around, I was firmly in the owners' court, thinking a salary cap system was needed. This time around, I'm firmly in the players' court, as I feel the owners need to police themselves and stop blaming the players for the big contracts that are causing them to lose money.


If the owners and GMs ran their teams like a busness they wouldn't have some of these issues. Smarter spending would lead to them losing less money.
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Re: Lockout

Postby shmenguin on Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:02 pm

no name wrote:
Defence21 wrote:
champeen wrote:I know that for me personally this lockout has changed my perception of the players for the worse and dulled my enthusiasm for NHL hockey. HOWEVER, if somehow a deal gets done on the heels of yesterday's meeting- a meeting in which all seem to agree Crosby and Burkle were the 'voices of reason' - it will make my returning to hockey, specifically as a Pens fan, much smoother. I have been extremely worried about coming out of this with an actual dislike for our own players, something that I felt could potentially turn me away from the game and team I love.

I don't begrudge you for coming out of this with a negative view of the players, as they're at fault in this mess, too. But, to me, it's the owners who look like idiots and have lost my respect. They're expecting the players, who made major sacrifices during the last lockout, to once again make major sacrifices this time around. Everyone's at fault in this mess, but last time around, I was firmly in the owners' court, thinking a salary cap system was needed. This time around, I'm firmly in the players' court, as I feel the owners need to police themselves and stop blaming the players for the big contracts that are causing them to lose money.


If the owners and GMs ran their teams like a busness they wouldn't have some of these issues. Smarter spending would lead to them losing less money.


and most of the teams in the league would forfeit their chance at winning a cup before the season even starts. that sounds fun.
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Re: Lockout

Postby meecrofilm on Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:22 pm

Louis Jean ‏@LouisJean_TVA
Told #Penguins owner Ron Burkle working behind the scenes for 2 weeks to help jump start talks.
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Re: Lockout

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:24 pm

shmenguin wrote:
no name wrote:
Defence21 wrote:
champeen wrote:I know that for me personally this lockout has changed my perception of the players for the worse and dulled my enthusiasm for NHL hockey. HOWEVER, if somehow a deal gets done on the heels of yesterday's meeting- a meeting in which all seem to agree Crosby and Burkle were the 'voices of reason' - it will make my returning to hockey, specifically as a Pens fan, much smoother. I have been extremely worried about coming out of this with an actual dislike for our own players, something that I felt could potentially turn me away from the game and team I love.

I don't begrudge you for coming out of this with a negative view of the players, as they're at fault in this mess, too. But, to me, it's the owners who look like idiots and have lost my respect. They're expecting the players, who made major sacrifices during the last lockout, to once again make major sacrifices this time around. Everyone's at fault in this mess, but last time around, I was firmly in the owners' court, thinking a salary cap system was needed. This time around, I'm firmly in the players' court, as I feel the owners need to police themselves and stop blaming the players for the big contracts that are causing them to lose money.


If the owners and GMs ran their teams like a busness they wouldn't have some of these issues. Smarter spending would lead to them losing less money.


and most of the teams in the league would forfeit their chance at winning a cup before the season even starts. that sounds fun.


And more teams would actually see a decrease in sales from having such suck ass teams , that the separation between haves and haves nots would happen again.

Not saying the owners are blameless, but they got the best deal they could in 2005 in order to get hockey back. It still needs tweaked, the owners operated within the framework this time around which they are supposed to do and it wasn't horrible bit wasn't great.

The only thing that these points show me in reality is that as much as we already know and as much as the players gave back in 2005 - it only proves how overly good they had it for too long.
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Re: Lockout

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:46 pm

The historic agreement between the players and the owners, which came to be known as the Crosby-Burkle Accords, ushered in what has been unquestionably considered the most prosperous and successful period for professional ice hockey in its long existence. The minor rules changes, along with the guarantee of a long-standing agreement, are universally hailed as the primary cause of the NHL's significant spike in popularity in the United States during the late 2010s and 2020s


-Labor and Sports Management, 2043, pp. 543-576
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Re: Lockout

Postby MRandall25 on Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:50 pm

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Re: Lockout

Postby champeen on Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:52 pm

Defence21 wrote:
champeen wrote:I know that for me personally this lockout has changed my perception of the players for the worse and dulled my enthusiasm for NHL hockey. HOWEVER, if somehow a deal gets done on the heels of yesterday's meeting- a meeting in which all seem to agree Crosby and Burkle were the 'voices of reason' - it will make my returning to hockey, specifically as a Pens fan, much smoother. I have been extremely worried about coming out of this with an actual dislike for our own players, something that I felt could potentially turn me away from the game and team I love.

I don't begrudge you for coming out of this with a negative view of the players, as they're at fault in this mess, too. But, to me, it's the owners who look like idiots and have lost my respect. They're expecting the players, who made major sacrifices during the last lockout, to once again make major sacrifices this time around. Everyone's at fault in this mess, but last time around, I was firmly in the owners' court, thinking a salary cap system was needed. This time around, I'm firmly in the players' court, as I feel the owners need to police themselves and stop blaming the players for the big contracts that are causing them to lose money.


maybe my post was too player-centric. my point goes for ownership as well. my opinion of them is largely soured as well. what i am saying is that if it turns out to be the efforts of OUR GUYS - on both sides- that turn the tide and make this thing happen, then it will be easier for me to dive back into NHL hockey. schmenguin would clearly argue that that's stupid. but for ME, even the vague sense that it wasn't OUR star player, it wasn't OUR owner that screwed this whole thing up... that our guys actually respect each other and still like each other and worked together to help negotiate an end to this madness... well, that makes a difference in how i would approach being a fan in the coming months.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:57 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:
The historic agreement between the players and the owners, which came to be known as the Crosby-Burkle Accords, ushered in what has been unquestionably considered the most prosperous and successful period for professional ice hockey in its long existence. The minor rules changes, along with the guarantee of a long-standing agreement, are universally hailed as the primary cause of the NHL's significant spike in popularity in the United States during the late 2010s and 2020s


-Labor and Sports Management, 2043, pp. 543-576


No mention of our unprecedented run of 12 consecutive Cups? Weak.
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Re: Lockout

Postby no name on Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:02 pm

I think the LGP baord deserves some credit if this gets passed, no doubt Ron B read our posts and was motovated to get in there and "get r done"
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:05 pm

We should demand 7% of all revenue. Shall we hire Donald Fehr to represent us?
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Re: Lockout

Postby IanMoran on Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:13 pm

I know I'm biased, but it just always seems like the Penguins ownership really does try to do things the right way.

I'm a fan of all Pittsburgh, but sometimes some of their ways upset me... I really like the Penguins ownership group
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Re: Lockout

Postby scals37 on Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:18 pm

Image
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Re: Lockout

Postby shmenguin on Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:18 pm

IanMoran wrote:I know I'm biased, but it just always seems like the Penguins ownership really does try to do things the right way.


some people in this thread would argue that they spend money irresponsibly, and are wrongfully looking to the players to bail them out.

i generally agree with you, but their marketing strategy does occasionally drop the ball. things like crappy slogans and forcing fans to bring their own shirts for white outs come to mind. they aren't perfect, but i'd say they are "well run". yet they can't consistently make money.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Tico Rick on Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:20 pm

IanMoran wrote:I know I'm biased, but it just always seems like the Penguins ownership really does try to do things the right way.

I'm a fan of all Pittsburgh, but sometimes some of their ways upset me... I really like the Penguins ownership group


If Mario ever bought the Pirates I might actually start following baseball again.
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Re: Lockout

Postby MRandall25 on Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:25 pm

David Morehouse is the problem :pop:
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Re: Lockout

Postby newarenanow on Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:35 pm

Are they still meeting today? I thought I read it was supposed to end early.
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Re: Lockout

Postby MRandall25 on Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:35 pm

newarenanow wrote:Are they still meeting today? I thought I read it was supposed to end early.


They decided to wait until after the BoG meeting.
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Re: Lockout

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:46 pm

shmenguin wrote:
IanMoran wrote:I know I'm biased, but it just always seems like the Penguins ownership really does try to do things the right way.


some people in this thread would argue that they spend money irresponsibly, and are wrongfully looking to the players to bail them out.

i generally agree with you, but their marketing strategy does occasionally drop the ball. things like crappy slogans and forcing fans to bring their own shirts for white outs come to mind. they aren't perfect, but i'd say they are "well run". yet they can't consistently make money.


I personally really like the ownership group, I dont like the management, I used to really like them though back in the day. Ever since Morehouse took over we just get letters saying how great this and that is. The marketing has been awful they actually get away wtih it becasue they are winning which is typical. And some other issues are head scratching at all times really. Very odd decisions constantly that make no sense.

I like that Burkle has the finances to back things but runs a good enough business model and is not some arrogant loudmouth at least publicly as some of these rich owenrs are. We lucked that Mario was "forced" to be involved through bankruptcy but its nice to have that name, especially his and for what I can tell he seems to have the best interests in mind.

Also like that they put winning towards the top of the list. Per the reports in previous years they have taken hits on yearly budgets for trades for playoff runs.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Sarcastic on Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:11 pm

champeen wrote:I know that for me personally this lockout has changed my perception of the players for the worse and dulled my enthusiasm for NHL hockey. HOWEVER, if somehow a deal gets done on the heels of yesterday's meeting- a meeting in which all seem to agree Crosby and Burkle were the 'voices of reason' - it will make my returning to hockey, specifically as a Pens fan, much smoother. I have been extremely worried about coming out of this with an actual dislike for our own players, something that I felt could potentially turn me away from the game and team I love.


I'll go with that. I blame players, maybe, 70%. Owners get some blame, but the PA's decision to hire Fehr is the major issue because it sounds like he filled their heads with a lot of nonsense. Whatever position we happened to be in at the end of the year, it should be apparent to everyone that the revenue share and contract details need to be drastically alterered. It is the players that stand against most of the changes to be had, not the other way around.
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Re: Lockout

Postby newarenanow on Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:23 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
newarenanow wrote:Are they still meeting today? I thought I read it was supposed to end early.


They decided to wait until after the BoG meeting.


So I've been waiting for this meeting to end all day for nothing? :D
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Re: Lockout

Postby MRandall25 on Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:30 pm

FWIW it just started
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