Lockout

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Re: Lockout

Postby no name on Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:41 pm

Sarcastic wrote:
champeen wrote:I know that for me personally this lockout has changed my perception of the players for the worse and dulled my enthusiasm for NHL hockey. HOWEVER, if somehow a deal gets done on the heels of yesterday's meeting- a meeting in which all seem to agree Crosby and Burkle were the 'voices of reason' - it will make my returning to hockey, specifically as a Pens fan, much smoother. I have been extremely worried about coming out of this with an actual dislike for our own players, something that I felt could potentially turn me away from the game and team I love.


I'll go with that. I blame players, maybe, 70%. Owners get some blame, but the PA's decision to hire Fehr is the major issue because it sounds like he filled their heads with a lot of nonsense. Whatever position we happened to be in at the end of the year, it should be apparent to everyone that the revenue share and contract details need to be drastically alterered. It is the players that stand against most of the changes to be had, not the other way around.



I really think if there is a new agreement, the owners will get more of the economic concessins and the players i will get most fo their contracting rights back.
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Re: Lockout

Postby no name on Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:41 pm

Sarcastic wrote:
champeen wrote:I know that for me personally this lockout has changed my perception of the players for the worse and dulled my enthusiasm for NHL hockey. HOWEVER, if somehow a deal gets done on the heels of yesterday's meeting- a meeting in which all seem to agree Crosby and Burkle were the 'voices of reason' - it will make my returning to hockey, specifically as a Pens fan, much smoother. I have been extremely worried about coming out of this with an actual dislike for our own players, something that I felt could potentially turn me away from the game and team I love.


I'll go with that. I blame players, maybe, 70%. Owners get some blame, but the PA's decision to hire Fehr is the major issue because it sounds like he filled their heads with a lot of nonsense. Whatever position we happened to be in at the end of the year, it should be apparent to everyone that the revenue share and contract details need to be drastically alterered. It is the players that stand against most of the changes to be had, not the other way around.



I really think if there is a new agreement, the owners will get more of the economic concessins and the players i will get most fo their contracting rights back.
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Re: Lockout

Postby tfrizz on Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:43 pm

no name wrote:
Sarcastic wrote:
champeen wrote:I know that for me personally this lockout has changed my perception of the players for the worse and dulled my enthusiasm for NHL hockey. HOWEVER, if somehow a deal gets done on the heels of yesterday's meeting- a meeting in which all seem to agree Crosby and Burkle were the 'voices of reason' - it will make my returning to hockey, specifically as a Pens fan, much smoother. I have been extremely worried about coming out of this with an actual dislike for our own players, something that I felt could potentially turn me away from the game and team I love.


I'll go with that. I blame players, maybe, 70%. Owners get some blame, but the PA's decision to hire Fehr is the major issue because it sounds like he filled their heads with a lot of nonsense. Whatever position we happened to be in at the end of the year, it should be apparent to everyone that the revenue share and contract details need to be drastically alterered. It is the players that stand against most of the changes to be had, not the other way around.



I really think if there is a new agreement, the owners will get more of the economic concessins and the players i will get most fo their contracting rights back.


Word floating around Twitter is that the owners are bending a little on contracting rights, but still want a lot of them put in place (ex: the 5 year max contract length).
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Re: Lockout

Postby Sarcastic on Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:59 pm

Is 5 years really so important to the owners? I'm not sure I get that one.
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Re: Lockout

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:03 pm

Sarcastic wrote:Is 5 years really so important to the owners? I'm not sure I get that one.


Maybe not exactly 5 years or other exact limits, but without some various contract stipulations it opens up loop holes like last time around.
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Re: Lockout

Postby meow on Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:10 pm

I'm totally for a hard-lined contract length restriction. Close as many loop-holes as possible.
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Re: Lockout

Postby penny lane on Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:11 pm

Bucky Gleason ‏@TBNbucky
Buffalo News: Buck Stops Here. NHL could end lockout today with binding arbitration. http://tinyurl.com/d9ejw6w


perhaps, maybe ?
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Re: Lockout

Postby viva la ben on Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:27 pm

Sure 80 days into this "it's just that easy"
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Re: Lockout

Postby no name on Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:33 pm

I really don't understand 5 years though, as long as you pass the 5% varience you can't make a cap circumvention type deal. I really feel players should be able to show their loyalty to a team by giving a lifetime deal. It bring the fans closer to the player.

I know the NHL wants all the current cap circumvention deals in place now to have to be reworked, Loungo, SId, Hossa, Zetterberg, Kovalchuk all have contracts like that. So does that mean Sid would have to have to break down his contract to 5 years??? Thats intresting.

SO if a deal gets done by the end of the week, how long of a season are we looking at. I would have to guess 50 plus games.
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Re: Lockout

Postby meow on Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:37 pm

no name wrote:I really don't understand 5 years though, as long as you pass the 5% varience you can't make a cap circumvention type deal. I really feel players should be able to show their loyalty to a team by giving a lifetime deal. It bring the fans closer to the player.

What's wrong with signing another deal when the 5 year deal expires?
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Re: Lockout

Postby Sarcastic on Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:42 pm

meow wrote:
no name wrote:I really don't understand 5 years though, as long as you pass the 5% varience you can't make a cap circumvention type deal. I really feel players should be able to show their loyalty to a team by giving a lifetime deal. It bring the fans closer to the player.

What's wrong with signing another deal when the 5 year deal expires?


Nothing, I just don't see what the big benefit is. As no name says, as long as there is some % in place to keep contracts from dipping toward the end, it should be enough, no? Someone make me understand if I'm missing something.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Sarcastic on Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:43 pm

Unless owners don't want to be on the hook for a guaranteed contract (if a player retires or gets injured). Is that it?
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Re: Lockout

Postby columbia on Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:46 pm

Well, I can see it from the owners perspective.

You want to sign a guy for 5 years and want to be careful and reassess things at that point.

Another team says, "Yo, we'll give you 10 at the same average salary."

It's pretty hard for a player to turn that down and - as a result - potentially hard for team to retain homegrown players, when they are hitting UFA for the first time.

I'mm sure there are other reasons, but that would be my concern as a GM/owner.
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Re: Lockout

Postby shmenguin on Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:53 pm

columbia wrote:Well, I can see it from the owners perspective.

You want to sign a guy for 5 years and want to be careful and reassess things at that point.

Another team says, "Yo, we'll give you 10 at the same average salary."

It's pretty hard for a player to turn that down and - as a result - potentially hard for team to retain homegrown players, when they are hitting UFA for the first time.

I'mm sure there are other reasons, but that would be my concern as a GM/owner.


yeah, i always hated the argument that GM's should just stop giving out those contracts if they don't want them around. it's like the minnesota thing. they could either choose to be competitive or to sit on the sidelines while others exploited their principals. who's going to do the latter?
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Re: Lockout

Postby jasonpens on Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:54 pm

So if the lockout ends in the next day or two, when do we think the season will actually begin? Any idea how long it will take to get players organized with guys returning from overseas teams, hold training camps and finalize a new schedule?
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Re: Lockout

Postby opie22002 on Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:08 pm

Sportsnet's Nick Kypreos says some coaches are calling players to tell them to be ready for imminent return. #CBA
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Re: Lockout

Postby opie22002 on Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:09 pm

Greg Wyshynski

@wyshynski
Hearing next Fri. for camps. MT @garylawless if deal gets done by weekend, training camps could open next Wed/56-game season on Dec. 20
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Re: Lockout

Postby newarenanow on Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:19 pm

Would be great if they get this done. Although I'm not going to get too excited until they sign on the dotted line.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Rylan on Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:20 pm

NAN are you always pessimistic for everything?
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Re: Lockout

Postby columbia on Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:21 pm

Rylan wrote:NAN are you always pessimistic for everything?



e5
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:28 pm

HOCJKEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111
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Re: Lockout

Postby Sarcastic on Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:30 pm

STANLEY CUP HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERE WE COME.
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Re: Lockout

Postby jprolley on Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:31 pm

ron burkle: not the hero we deserved but the hero we needed
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Re: Lockout

Postby champeen on Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:39 pm

these last few post led me to believe a deal was announced or even some sort of 'agreed in principle' type thing, which appears to not have happened. i share NAN's thoughts on this.
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Re: Lockout

Postby newarenanow on Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:08 pm

Rylan wrote:NAN are you always pessimistic for everything?


No. Mainly just Pitt stuff.

If you look earlier in this thread, I was convinced they'd play hockey this season. Last week was the first time I had my doubts.

This is promising though.
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