Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 25)

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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 9)

Postby mikey287 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:54 pm

Yup, Stackhouse was the same way...difference is "hate in retrospect" vs. "present day hatred" - Stackhouse, nearly as big as Jack Lambert, not "tough as steel" though...tough competition...
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 9)

Postby Gaucho on Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:22 pm

MRandall25 wrote:I'm drafting according to what I need to build my team, not necessarily "the best player". Whitney didn't fit what I wanted.


Fair enough and ultimately what this is all about.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 9)

Postby mikey287 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:37 pm

Gaucho wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:I'm drafting according to what I need to build my team, not necessarily "the best player". Whitney didn't fit what I wanted.


Fair enough and ultimately what this is all about.


I'm gonna respectfully disagree. Actually, this is more for historical context/ranking/discussion. The by-product is competition and team-creation. The latter actually taints the process somewhat (see: the goaltenders so far), but not to enough of an effect to render the results null and/or void...

You just figure that you'll want the best player available to make your team better...by the time you're "filling needs", the difference in player quality becomes almost negligible.

For instance, there's a group of about 6 or 8 or 10 defensemen (I didn't exactly count) that are all of about the same qualification level...Whitney and Mantha among them, that really require some hair splitting to render a verdict...
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 9)

Postby Gaucho on Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:39 pm

When I picked Sandstrom I made a pledge to myself to pick x if he was still around for my next selection. He is indeed still around so here goes:

Gordie Roberts, D

Image

The original Piece. Acquired October 90 for a pick, left for Boston two years later with two rings. Like a boss. In between he played 134 regular season and 43 playoff games worth of rock-solid if not unspectacular defense. Became the first American player to appear in 1000 NHL games along the way.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 9)

Postby Gaucho on Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:41 pm

mikey287 wrote:
Gaucho wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:I'm drafting according to what I need to build my team, not necessarily "the best player". Whitney didn't fit what I wanted.


Fair enough and ultimately what this is all about.


I'm gonna respectfully disagree. Actually, this is more for historical context/ranking/discussion. The by-product is competition and team-creation. The latter actually taints the process somewhat (see: the goaltenders so far), but not to enough of an effect to render the results null and/or void...

You just figure that you'll want the best player available to make your team better...by the time you're "filling needs", the difference in player quality becomes almost negligible.

For instance, there's a group of about 6 or 8 or 10 defensemen (I didn't exactly count) that are all of about the same qualification level...Whitney and Mantha among them, that really require some hair splitting to render a verdict...


Hm, I'd never have picked Binkley so early or at all under that premise.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 9)

Postby mikey287 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:51 pm

Sorry...and it's not really a big deal, because that can be weeded out at the end.

From the OP: "Premise: We get X number of teams (I'd expect no more than 4 or 6 to be really into it) and we hold an all-time draft. In which you get 25 draft picks (serpentine) to build a team - thus, creating a de facto ranking of Penguins in history."

Maybe I should have started: To create a ranking of Penguins in history, we'll hold an all-time draft.

In any event, it's of little concern now. We know what happened and the goalies themselves are still ranked in the order people believe them to be actually ranked (Fleury, Barrasso, Binkley...). During the process or at the end (I'm guessing the latter), we'll hash it out for a few days or hopefully more than a week and draw some conclusions...

I gotta get moving on some bios again to help aid the process...
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 9)

Postby Rylan on Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:54 pm

Hmmmm, by not drafting according to BPA though it allows for discussion on each team and the merits of the players drafted. I think it actually allows for more conversation that way mikey. Now MRRandall would have to defend his decision. Or anyone else for that matter. You pick up what I am putting down?
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 9)

Postby mikey287 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:56 pm

I gotta say that Gordie Roberts was not on my radar at all for this thing...it's a shame entire careers aren't factored in because he's quite underrated, but in terms of Penguins history, I'm not so sure, with all due respect.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 9)

Postby mikey287 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:01 pm

Rylan wrote:Hmmmm, by not drafting according to BPA though it allows for discussion on each team and the merits of the players drafted. I think it actually allows for more conversation that way mikey. Now MRRandall would have to defend his decision. Or anyone else for that matter. You pick up what I am putting down?


I can dig it, Rylan. However, given that we are - in effect - creating the list for BPA with every pick we make (to my knowledge, this hasn't been done in any sort of research-based environment) shouldn't that be enough to generate discussion? It's not "who's the BPA?", it's "this guy is BPA because..."

No matter how or who you pick, you should "defend" your pick...be critical, constructively, of others as well to form the best list and the best possible discussion...all in the spirit of education for me personally...

And to date, this hasn't gone anywhere close to coming off the rails or anything...some questionable picks? Sure. A bit of a goalie fiasco? Expected. Otherwise, I've been quite happy with how it's gone and have enjoyed it quite a bit.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 9)

Postby Gaucho on Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:02 pm

Oh, don't worry, it's all good. I still like my team.

I have to admit the really difficult part for me is not so much comparing players from different eras (not saying it's easy, of course), but putting the length of their tenure into context. There are still a handful of defensemen available with 300+ games, so I wasn't sure if ranking Gordie Roberts ahead of all of them was really a sound decision.

Edit: Just seen your last post, mikey. Yeah, I get your point. Then again, he was a big part of two Cup winning teams.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 9)

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:07 pm

Rylan wrote:Hmmmm, by not drafting according to BPA though it allows for discussion on each team and the merits of the players drafted. I think it actually allows for more conversation that way mikey. Now MRRandall would have to defend his decision. Or anyone else for that matter. You pick up what I am putting down?


Defend my decision to draft Slegr ahead of Whitney and Mantha?

I have Paul Coffey and Zarley Zalapski, so I figured I needed someone a little more defensive minded. There's probably better on the table (that I found after I had read around after my choice), but the player I was originally going to take there (Scuderi) went right before I picked.

I'm definitely more aware now, and really, until the Scuderi pick, I hadn't even really thought to look at recent (i.e. post-lockout) players.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 9)

Postby mikey287 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:18 pm

Gaucho wrote:Oh, don't worry, it's all good. I still like my team.

I have to admit the really difficult part for me is not so much comparing players from different eras (not saying it's easy, of course), but putting the length of their tenure into context. There are still a handful of defensemen available with 300+ games, so I wasn't sure if ranking Gordie Roberts ahead of all of them was really a sound decision.

Edit: Just seen your last post, mikey. Yeah, I get your point. Then again, he was a big part of two Cup winning teams.


Oh believe me, even with some experience with this in general, I'm having trouble with the juxtaposing of "peak" vs. "longevity" - I broke and took Moe Mantha recently with the claim "I can't ignore that peak season any longer" I agree that that's been the hardest part for me, as I'm fairly used to comparing players throughout eras for other projects that I've done/participated in.

Roberts is a tricky one for me...this is the first draft pick so far that wasn't on any of my lists to be honest...which isn't to say that it's wrong or bad or anything, but I was quite surprised to see his name personally...

According to my notes, he was basically a #5/6 defenseman in 1991 and 1992 for us...
1991 ice time is estimated to be --
ATOI: Coffey, Zalapski, Murphy, [undrafted], [undrafted], Ulf (14 GP), Roberts, [undrafted]
ES: Coffey, Ulf (14 GP), Murphy, [undrafted], [undrafted], Roberts, Zalapski, [undrafted]

^ a little wonky because of the roster turnover we had that season...

1992 estimates:
ATOI: Coffey, Murphy, Ulf, Kjell, [undrafted], Roberts, [undrafted]
ES: Coffey, Murphy, Kjell, Ulf, Roberts, [undrafted], [undrafted]
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 11)

Postby Gaucho on Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:26 pm

Interesting, for some reason I was quite certain that he was way ahead of [undrafted] and [undrafted] in TOI. Maybe not a smart pick after all, but you live and you learn.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 11)

Postby mikey287 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:30 pm

Gaucho wrote:Interesting, for some reason I was quite certain that he was way ahead of [undrafted] and [undrafted] in TOI. Maybe not a smart pick after all, but you live and you learn.


That's what it's all about. :fist: Worst case, he becomes your #6 or your #7 after you figured out that you may have drafted 5 or 6 or 7 defensemen better than him by the end of the draft...
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 11)

Postby dman66 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:36 pm

Wow. Pick #60 already. Crazy.

All right, with that pick, the Left Wing Locks are pleased to select:

Right Wing - #9 Pascal Dupuis

Image

Probably one of my favorite pics of all time. He's definitely giving the Zoolander blue steel face there.

Originally a throw in in the Marian Hossa deal, Dupuis has turned into a viable top 6 option (as viable as it gets on a cap strapped team). Last year, he had career highs goals, assists, and points. Dupuis also has 7 SHG in the past two seasons, providing terrific defense and also giving other teams something to think about while running their powerplay.

At this point in the draft, I'm getting a defensively responsible player who can play a role on any line. I'm perfectly comfortable with Dupuis rounding out my top 6.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 11)

Postby dman66 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:49 pm

With the first pick of the 11th round, the Left Wing Locks are pleased to select:

Defenseman - #32 Dick Tarnstrom

Image

An offensive defenseman, Tarnstrom scored career goals, assists, and points, first in 02-03 season and then surpassing it in the 03-04 season.

Tarnstrom lead the team in points in that 03-04 season, and while he wasn't the best defensively, he played in all situations. I figure I can shelter his minutes with Carlyle and Stackhouse, while also giving him some PP time.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 11)

Postby Gaucho on Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:53 pm

I'm on the phone, so I'll make it short:

Randy Hillier, D

Image
Last edited by Gaucho on Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 11)

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:55 pm

Image
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 11)

Postby mikey287 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:51 pm

I like the Pascal Dupuis pick certainly. He was a guy I was considering with this pick or my next one. I've been considering this 3x NHL All-Star for a couple of rounds now thinking that I'll just keep him on my "watchlist" until I watch someone else take him, but at this point, he's way too good of a value to let slide any further. Super speedy (almost too fast for his own good), good defensively, played a good amount of minutes on the second line largely. I consider him and Dupuis the two-best wingers available for a little bit now and now they're both gone...

Image

man, what a great shot that is...

LW Greg Polis
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 11)

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:53 pm

MRandall25 wrote:Image
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 11)

Postby mikey287 on Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:07 am

Uh oh, looks like a double whammy on mrandall there...it can be tough down here when it's tough to know what others think of players so close to one another...

If you get into a bind, maybe you can find another center and move Straka to LW? You are hurting at LW regardless of who you pick here I think...unless you can convince me that James Neal should somehow be eligible haha...
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 11)

Postby MRandall25 on Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:13 am

I have a few wingers left on my board, no need for James Neal.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 11)

Postby Rylan on Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:22 am

With the 64th pick in the draft, the Degloving Kings are proud to select from New Hope, Minnesota:

Defenseman James Johnson

Image

A good defenseman that could kill penalties and that posted a positive +/- 3 of 4 years with the Pens. I don't usually like +/- but it does give you a general idea of how the player did.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 11)

Postby mikey287 on Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:37 am

I'd love to slide up a few picks here if there's any takers...
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 11)

Postby Rylan on Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:40 am

Normally I would say I want to move up a few picks, but the idea of picking 69th makes me giggle :)
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