LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

[shafnutz05]

From the video I saw, there's nothing to show that the guy wasn't threatned in some way, he had definitely been pushed and was recentereing himself when he threw the punch. Of course, if that doofus would release the who video...it could clear up the position the guy was, but he wont.

What about the part where a mob of angry protesters are surrounding the AFP tent and trying to rip it down with people still inside? The D-bag, as you refer to him, was standing just outside that tent, surrounded by hundreds of hostile people. I find it extremely hard to believe that the union dude felt "threatened". I find it more likely he was emboldened and egged on by a crowd of screaming protesters and grew the mob equivalent of "beer muscles".

[Troy Loney]

I can't believe a tense protest got out of hand :shocked:, nor can I believe some meathead pundit sent to rile up the union protesters got punched in the face, nor can I believe that the conservative news raquet would pick this up and send their cronies out to take jabs at democrats for supporting...militant union protests? Is that what we're going for here?

[shafnutz05]

lol....you are simply too much.

[Gaucho]

imo, he should've just doused him in pepper spray.

[ExPatriatePen]

imo, he should've just doused him in pepper spray.

Well, one of them did promise to pull out his gun and shot someone. Sounds like a peaceful assembly to me

[Troy Loney]

Out of curiosity, are there any other atrocities that occured during this protest, or just the ones surrounding this idiot from fox news?

[ExPatriatePen]

Out of curiosity, are there any other atrocities that occured during this protest, or just the ones surrounding this idiot from fox news?

Union guys don't know how to work cameras or talk to MSNBC?

[shafnutz05]

Out of curiosity, are there any other atrocities that occured during this protest, or just the ones surrounding this idiot from fox news?

Your continuous use of pejoratives and "Fox News" is funny.

The whole point of what happened here is showing how they reacted around opposition to their protest. It wasn't just this singular "idiot" from Fox News, it was a decent-sized counter-protest tent set up by Americans For Prosperity. Now I'm sure you probably think the people in this group are D-bags too, but the reason why the aggression and violence centered around this tent is because that was probably the largest counter-protest at this event.

Why would there be other "atrocities" in other parts of the protest where there is zero opposition? You keep on wanting to make the debate about this singular guy, but there was a tent of other counter-protesters there that were, by all accounts, peacefully assembled. THEY were the ones being surrounded by the union mob. THEY were the ones that had their tent ripped down for daring to show up and also express their right to peacefully assemble.

For some reason, you keep wanting to make it about the one D-bag and Fox News. I'm perfectly aware who this guy is, but you are completely leaving out the other people that were there. It is absolutely hilarious to me how you continuously forgive and even approve the criminal behavior exhibited in the video. You find it perfectly justified because the guy in question is affiliated with Fox News. I almost find that disturbing, to be honest.

I find this all the more hilarious, because when a group of ditzy college sorority chicks dressed up as Mexican stereotypes, you were practically having an aneurysm over the horribly insensitive and egregious act of hate and ignorance they were committing, and your righteous condemnation of said sorority chicks was over-the-top. Yet, here's a pretty clear-cut case of a mob physically assaulting one person and threatening a group of people and you are tripping over yourself mentioning Fox News and calling the guy names over and over again because you don't agree with his views.

It's hard to take you seriously at this point, TBH

[ExPatriatePen]

In a weird development, CNN is now reporting that Syrian forces have fired Scud Missles at rebel forces.

Scud Missles? Seems a strange weapon to use against insurgents.

[Gaucho]

Guess they were just sort of lying around.

[ExPatriatePen]

Guess they were just sort of lying around.

So are chemical weapons...

[Gaucho]

I have a bad feeling about this.

[ExPatriatePen]

I have a bad feeling about this.

Last night I watched CNN and Piers Morgan interviewed the "Three Amigos".

While I respect those three and have no question what-so-ever about the sincerity of their convictions, I completely disagree with their hawkish stance when it comes to foriegn affairs and military interventionism.

I wish Piers had used the term "Blow back" when interviewing them. I'm really not sure that they understand the concept.

[Shyster]

Then why wont this d-bag release the entire video instead of just the clip of the guy punching him? No one is stopping you from going back to the bubble.

There's ZERO excuse for throwing a punch at someone when you yourself are not in physical harms way.
PERIOD.

I can confirm that ExPatriatePen’s statement is also legally correct. Generally speaking, words alone are never justification for the use of force against another person, no matter what they say. Nothing Crowder said to any person in that crowd could possibly justify assaulting him.

[Gaucho]

What about using pepper spray?

[Troy Loney]

Then why wont this d-bag release the entire video instead of just the clip of the guy punching him? No one is stopping you from going back to the bubble.

There's ZERO excuse for throwing a punch at someone when you yourself are not in physical harms way.
PERIOD.

I can confirm that ExPatriatePen’s statement is also legally correct. Generally speaking, words alone are never justification for the use of force against another person, no matter what they say. Nothing Crowder said to any person in that crowd could possibly justify assaulting him.

That's fine, I never agree with resorting to physical assault. But that completely ignores the fact that the video is clearly edited to prevent us from seeing where the physical altercation started. All we see is that there was definitely some sort of tussle or physical contact leading to the punch. The "victim" is refusing to show the entire video and only the parts after getting punch. I'm not sure why this point is being ignored, it's really the only thing that i'm pointing out. Aside from providing subjective opinions about the d-bag in the video, which don't really need to be addressed, i'm just insulting him cause I don't like MMA or ugly black leather jackets.

[tifosi77]

Scud Missles? Seems a strange weapon to use against insurgents.

It is my opinion that this is what would be called a 'test fire' to make sure the things still work...... make sure they go generally where you point them before expending the real payload of NBC munitions.

This is a bad development.

[tifosi77]

Not generally a fan of countering one highly-biased news source with another highly-biased news source, but.....

it appears that elements of what both TL and Shaf are saying are true.

Crowder appears to have possibly started the fracas (but there's nothing conclusive), and the videos have been selectively edited - in one instance cobbled together so that one shot of the tent coming down happened hours after the shot that immediately proceeded it. It also appears that Crowder himself may have been the first person to cut the stanchions for the AFP tent, and that union members were using pocket knives to cut people out and make sure they were safe.

But, you know..... carry on.

[ExPatriatePen]

It also appears that Crowder himself may have been the first person to cut the stanchions for the AFP tent,

If so, there must be some statute that he's violating.

My whole opinion of the entire matter changes if that one statement proves true.

[shafnutz05]

I would agree with the above.

[shafnutz05]

(from the AP, mind you)

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_SENATE_INTERN_ARRESTED?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-12-12-14-18-16

U.S. Sen. Robert Menendez employed as an unpaid intern in his Senate office an illegal immigrant who was a registered sex offender, now under arrest by immigration authorities, The Associated Press has learned. The Homeland Security Department instructed federal agents not to arrest him until after Election Day, a U.S. official involved in the case told the AP.

Menendez, D-N.J., who advocates aggressively for pro-immigration policies, was re-elected in November with 58 percent of the vote. Congressional staffers who work for Menendez were notified about Sanchez's case shortly after the arrest. Sanchez told ICE agents that he worked on immigration issues for the senator. A spokesman for Menendez said she was looking into the matter.

Authorities in Hudson County notified ICE agents in early October that they suspected Sanchez was an illegal immigrant who was a registered sex offender and who may be eligible to be deported. ICE agents in New Jersey notified superiors at the Homeland Security Department because they considered it a potentially high profile arrest, and DHS instructed them not to arrest Sanchez until after the November election, one U.S. official told the AP. ICE officials complained that the delay was inappropriate, but DHS directed them several times not to act, the official said.

[ExPatriatePen]

:shock: (from the AP, mind you)

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_SENATE_INTERN_ARRESTED?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-12-12-14-18-16

U.S. Sen. Robert Menendez employed as an unpaid intern in his Senate office an illegal immigrant who was a registered sex offender, now under arrest by immigration authorities, The Associated Press has learned. The Homeland Security Department instructed federal agents not to arrest him until after Election Day, a U.S. official involved in the case told the AP.

Menendez, D-N.J., who advocates aggressively for pro-immigration policies, was re-elected in November with 58 percent of the vote. Congressional staffers who work for Menendez were notified about Sanchez's case shortly after the arrest. Sanchez told ICE agents that he worked on immigration issues for the senator. A spokesman for Menendez said she was looking into the matter.

Authorities in Hudson County notified ICE agents in early October that they suspected Sanchez was an illegal immigrant who was a registered sex offender and who may be eligible to be deported. ICE agents in New Jersey notified superiors at the Homeland Security Department because they considered it a potentially high profile arrest, and DHS instructed them not to arrest Sanchez until after the November election, one U.S. official told the AP. ICE officials complained that the delay was inappropriate, but DHS directed them several times not to act, the official said.

If there's a paper trail, anyone complicent in this matter should be immediately fired. (if not hauled in front of a grand jury for obstruction)

I would hope our Atty. General would persue this matter with ... um, what? Our AG is still Holder? nevermind.

[TheHammer24]

Meh. This doesn't really bother me that much.

(1) I'm not as bothered by illegal immigration as others. And please spare me the "but they broke the law" argument.
(2) That he's a sex offender perhaps shows poor judgment, but I don't believe in a hardline sex-offenders-should-never-hold-another-job approach.
(3) Waiting until after election day is most problematic. But I think it's preferable that there be another election (assuming that's the process) with two new candidates. The alternative would be an early arrest, which discloses this info early and handing the victory to the opponent (that less than 40% of the state approved). Perhaps that final rationalization is too utilitarian.

[GaryRissling]

This is seriously disturbing; esp considering how it's received almost no media attention. I wonder how much HSBC contributed to Obama's campaign/ Super-PAC's.

Over the last year, federal investigators found that one of the world's largest banks, HSBC, spent years committing serious crimes, involving money laundering for terrorists; "facilitat[ing] money laundering by Mexican drug cartels"; and "mov[ing] tainted money for Saudi banks tied to terrorist groups". Those investigations uncovered substantial evidence "that senior bank officials were complicit in the illegal activity." As but one example, "an HSBC executive at one point argued that the bank should continue working with the Saudi Al Rajhi bank, which has supported Al Qaeda."

On Tuesday, not only did the US Justice Department announce that HSBC would not be criminally prosecuted, but outright claimed that the reason is that they are too important, too instrumental to subject them to such disruptions. In other words, shielding them from the system of criminal sanction to which the rest of us are subject is not for their good, but for our common good. We should not be angry, but grateful, for the extraordinary gift bestowed on the global banking giant:

"US authorities defended their decision not to prosecute HSBC for accepting the tainted money of rogue states and drug lords on Tuesday, insisting that a $1.9bn fine for a litany of offences was preferable to the 'collateral consequences' of taking the bank to court. . . .
"Announcing the record fine at a press conference in New York, assistant attorney general Lanny Breuer said that despite HSBC"s 'blatant failure' to implement anti-money laundering controls and its wilful flouting of US sanctions, the consequences of a criminal prosecution would have been dire.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... laundering

[DelPen]

Out of curiosity, are there any other atrocities that occured during this protest, or just the ones surrounding this idiot from fox news?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/12 ... -supplies/